Upgrade 30-NC to Ideal Steel?

[Calentarse]

Well this has been a good forum topic. Sounds like your experience with the NC was that of my experience with a VC Encore (although mine did have a crack so it was constantly 650 too with air closed off). Hated burning that thing in a small house! The radiant heat from the cast iron would also run you out of the room!

I now have a BK Ashford and it heats my house perfectly throughout the year! I have had some problems with a smoke smell in the house and the company is working with me on it. They are good at making sure their customers are happy. When you couple that with a quality product you are bound to have a successful business. I could be having issues due to my short chimney, which is not a problem you have. BK recommends a minimum of 15' for chimney height (although my manual says 12') so that wouldn't be a problem for you as long as you don't have any 45s. With 45s, if the cat stalls you may need to create a taller chimney. I have 13' and 2 45s and my BK never stalls; it just emits a smoke smell so important to keep in mind that everyones experience is different.

I would recommend a BK for you because your climate is like mine and need long and slow burns (both because you are busy and because you need the ability to turn the heat down). It's incredible how easy the BK is to operate. The drama is much less with these stoves! It's really quite surprising once you really see how long the wood lasts on a single load.

I would encourage you to get a jacketed stove, like a Pacific Energy (others, right?) or Blaze King Ashford because it keeps the heat down and creates a slower burn. Its a steel stove inside but the outside has a cast iron jacket around it, so it doesn't radiate like my old VC cast iron stove did. It radiates out the front glass, which is nice and not overpowering. If you need to, you can order the stove with the blowers (I think this is typical) and use it as a convective heater).

I don't have experience with the Ideal Steel but my parents just bought a Progress Hybrid and absolutely love it. I've read good things about it and can attest to how good Woodstock is. My parents just switched from a smoke dragon to the new technology and I think Woodstock does an awesome job too manufacturing their stoves., so I would probably buy through them if BK went away.

Best of luck to you!

 

[JA600L]

I threw a few box elder splits in at 7 this morning and now at 11pm the stove is still giving off a small amount of heat. I'm not sure how much the soapstone helps with that.

 

[CO burner]

Feb. update: Since I was able to learn so much from the knowledge base available here, I thought it would only be appropriate to share what I have learned from my first 3 months of 24/7 burning. If you are reading this thread considering the purchase of an Ideal Steel, STOP right now. Pick up the phone, get out the plastic, and order one. I have heated with wood for 30ish years in 9ish different stoves and I can say that the IS is the easiest, cleanest, most efficient fire box I have ever stuffed splits into. Amazing heat at fiery hot secondary burns, precision control for long slow low cat burns and barley a whisp of smoke once cruising. It is probably just a bit oversized for our house. I find myself keeping the STT below 400 unless we've been gone for a few day. The more familiar I get with the stove, the better I am getting at picking and packing the right load for the precise desired burn temp and duration. The shoulder season weather we are having now has been a fun challenge - high 40s to low teens. Trying to not waste BTUs and have to open a window, but still have a matchless relight when it is time has been a fun game. I estimate that by the end of the heating season, I will have burned just about 3 cords of spruce, fir and oak as our primary heat source for our 2000 sq ft house at 7200 feet in southern Colorado. I'm pretty pleased with my new stove. The only issue is the unknown durability and service intervals for the internal bits, moving parts, and plethora of gaskets. I'm sure that there is someone out there who will tell me about a stove that heats for a week untouched on 6 twigs and a unicorn fart and I'd love to hear about it but at this point, I haven't found anything better than the IS.

 

[Calentarse]

This is great to hear!

Feb. update: Since I was able to learn so much from the knowledge base available here, I thought it would only be appropriate to share what I have learned from my first 3 months of 24/7 burning. If you are reading this thread considering the purchase of an Ideal Steel, STOP right now. Pick up the phone, get out the plastic, and order one. I have heated with wood for 30ish years in 9ish different stoves and I can say that the IS is the easiest, cleanest, most efficient fire box I have ever stuffed splits into. Amazing heat at fiery hot secondary burns, precision control for long slow low cat burns and barley a whisp of smoke once cruising. It is probably just a bit oversized for our house. I find myself keeping the STT below 400 unless we've been gone for a few day. The more familiar I get with the stove, the better I am getting at picking and packing the right load for the precise desired burn temp and duration. The shoulder season weather we are having now has been a fun challenge - high 40s to low teens. Trying to not waste BTUs and have to open a window, but still have a matchless relight when it is time has been a fun game. I estimate that by the end of the heating season, I will have burned just about 3 cords of spruce, fir and oak as our primary heat source for our 2000 sq ft house at 7200 feet in southern Colorado. I'm pretty pleased with my new stove. The only issue is the unknown durability and service intervals for the internal bits, moving parts, and plethora of gaskets. I'm sure that there is someone out there who will tell me about a stove that heats for a week untouched on 6 twigs and a unicorn fart and I'd love to hear about it but at this point, I haven't found anything better than the IS.

And I retract my last statement about your climate. You are elevated so much colder for you! So happy you are finding the stove a perfect fit. That's not easy to come by.

Use different sized splits and more or less wood for heat control when the controls of the stove aren't cutting it in the shoulder season. Usually that helped with my old VC...

 

[zig]

6 twigs and a unicorn fart

Read it friday; still laughing today.

 

[droppinloads]

Feb. update: Since I was able to learn so much from the knowledge base available here, I thought it would only be appropriate to share what I have learned from my first 3 months of 24/7 burning. If you are reading this thread considering the purchase of an Ideal Steel, STOP right now. Pick up the phone, get out the plastic, and order one. I have heated with wood for 30ish years in 9ish different stoves and I can say that the IS is the easiest, cleanest, most efficient fire box I have ever stuffed splits into. Amazing heat at fiery hot secondary burns, precision control for long slow low cat burns and barley a whisp of smoke once cruising. It is probably just a bit oversized for our house. I find myself keeping the STT below 400 unless we've been gone for a few day. The more familiar I get with the stove, the better I am getting at picking and packing the right load for the precise desired burn temp and duration. The shoulder season weather we are having now has been a fun challenge - high 40s to low teens. Trying to not waste BTUs and have to open a window, but still have a matchless relight when it is time has been a fun game. I estimate that by the end of the heating season, I will have burned just about 3 cords of spruce, fir and oak as our primary heat source for our 2000 sq ft house at 7200 feet in southern Colorado. I'm pretty pleased with my new stove. The only issue is the unknown durability and service intervals for the internal bits, moving parts, and plethora of gaskets. I'm sure that there is someone out there who will tell me about a stove that heats for a week untouched on 6 twigs and a unicorn fart and I'd love to hear about it but at this point, I haven't found anything better than the IS.

I have to agree with this 100%. Only questions about this stove will be durability (since it's so new/untested in this area). I've been burning with the IS since late Nov-early Dec & this thing is awesome. My normal burn times have been 12hrs & that's probably only filling the box about 80%. It throws off tons of heat & is so easy to use. I also keep the STT below 400 (usually 350ish). Mine is also slightly over-sized for my 2200sq ft house. Unfortunately the design of my house is such that the stove is in an odd corner of the house & not in center, so the layout is not efficient. But since the IS throws off such good heat, it really keeps the downstairs at a perfect comfortable temp. Our upstairs not so much, but that's due more to house layout then the stove.

 

[Calentarse]

I have to agree with this 100%. Only questions about this stove will be durability (since it's so new/untested in this area). I've been burning with the IS since late Nov-early Dec & this thing is awesome. My normal burn times have been 12hrs & that's probably only filling the box about 80%. It throws off tons of heat & is so easy to use. I also keep the STT below 400 (usually 350ish). Mine is also slightly over-sized for my 2200sq ft house. Unfortunately the design of my house is such that the stove is in an odd corner of the house & not in center, so the layout is not efficient. But since the IS throws off such good heat, it really keeps the downstairs at a perfect comfortable temp. Our upstairs not so much, but that's due more to house layout then the stove.

So is the IS a steel stove with nothing else? I wonder if my parents would have had better heating from it in the dead of winter over the progress hybrid. As I recall, it didn't make the WAF though...

 

[drz1050]

The IS is a steel stove, with soapstone internals instead of firebrick. The side panels on it have soapstone discs... that part might be optional. What's WAF?

 

[Calentarse]

Wife Approval Factor

 

[Highbeam]

The IS is a steel stove, with soapstone internals instead of firebrick. The side panels on it have soapstone discs... that part might be optional. What's WAF?

Pretty sure all of the soapstone is optional. You can buy the stove cheaper with no soapstone anywhere. I've owned a soapstone stove and was not impressed, I wouldn't pay extra for soapstone since with a proper catalytic burning system you replace "heat life" with burn time. I am very impressed with catalytic performance from both WS and BK.

 

[CO burner]

Pretty sure all of the soapstone is optional. You can buy the stove cheaper with no soapstone anywhere. I've owned a soapstone stove and was not impressed, I wouldn't pay extra for soapstone since with a proper catalytic burning system you replace "heat life" with burn time. I am very impressed with catalytic performance from both WS and BK.

I definately debated the utility of soapstone for my IS purchase, I'm curious why you weren't impressed? Having never owned a catalytic or soapstone stove before, I got all the soapstone available. The logic, flawed or not, was that I wanted as much thermal mass as I could get to even out the temperature spikes during the burn cycle and to retain and release heat throughout the day during the shoulder seasons. So far it seems to be working brilliantly. I haven't cooked us out of the house in the evenings and when the daytime highs are in the 40's the house stays comfortable all day on one load in the evening. An incidental benefit is that the sides of the stove seem to stay a little cooler than the 3rd degree burn temperature of the 30-NC, which is a plus with a 4 and 1 year old. I might be justifying the additional cost to myself, but I would love to have a side by side comparison test of a Plain Jane IS vs The Works.

 

[Highbeam]

I definately debated the utility of soapstone for my IS purchase, I'm curious why you weren't impressed? Having never owned a catalytic or soapstone stove before, I got all the soapstone available. The logic, flawed or not, was that I wanted as much thermal mass as I could get to even out the temperature spikes during the burn cycle and to retain and release heat throughout the day during the shoulder seasons. So far it seems to be working brilliantly. I haven't cooked us out of the house in the evenings and when the daytime highs are in the 40's the house stays comfortable all day on one load in the evening. An incidental benefit is that the sides of the stove seem to stay a little cooler than the 3rd degree burn temperature of the 30-NC, which is a plus with a 4 and 1 year old. I might be justifying the additional cost to myself, but I would love to have a side by side comparison test of a Plain Jane IS vs The Works.

Many, if not all, of the improvements in burning experience you list are due to switching from a non-cat to a superior cat (actually hybrid) stove. Thermal mass isn't worth a hill of beans if you have an appliance that is capable of extended, constant, heat output. There should be no peaks that need to be evened out. The sides of the firebox are cool because the fire isn't the hot thing, it's the cat doing the work most of the time.

It's great to have the option of stone. It does look very nice and it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

 

[Babaganoosh]

I've got regular fire brick in my IS. The stove holds heat for hours upon hours so I don't see the need. I might buy the soapstone liner prior to next season to see if there's a difference. I'd expect it to be minimal. Sometimes I actually wish the IS would burn thru the wood quicker because by the time I wake up for work it's not even ready for a reload yet.

 

[rdust]

Sometimes I actually wish the IS would burn thru the wood quicker because by the time I wake up for work it's not even ready for a reload yet.

I used to deal with this and sometimes still do. I have a suggestion, load less wood. It really takes a lot for me to not load the stove full.

 

[droppinloads]

I've got regular fire brick in my IS. The stove holds heat for hours upon hours so I don't see the need. I might buy the soapstone liner prior to next season to see if there's a difference. I'd expect it to be minimal. Sometimes I actually wish the IS would burn thru the wood quicker because by the time I wake up for work it's not even ready for a reload yet.

This is one reason I never really fully load the stove at night. I've figured out that for me, filling about 3/4 leaves a nice coal bed in the am

 

[Highbeam]

I've run into the same issue if it is so cold out that I need to drop from 24 hour reloads to 12 hour reloads. I could of course do 20 hour reloads but I always want to load at night to stay on schedule. Anyway, I have found that the cat stoves don't mind if you load on top of a partially burned load. No need to wait until the previous load has expired.

Much like the fuel tank on my pickup, I keep it topped off when I can't hold 24 hour cycles.

 

[realstihl]

This is one reason I never really fully load the stove at night. I've figured out that for me, filling about 3/4 leaves a nice coal bed in the am

Just a question. When you close it down for a long burn, how dirty is the glass?

 

[droppinloads]

Just a question. When you close it down for a long burn, how dirty is the glass?

For me glass stays clean. Usually when I close to 1/4 (or sometimes just below for an overnight) the box will be black. But the cat is working & when I come down in the am the glass is clean.

 

[LocustBurner]

Nothing like a load of locust to keep the glass clean!

 

[Babaganoosh]

I've run into the same issue if it is so cold out that I need to drop from 24 hour reloads to 12 hour reloads. I could of course do 20 hour reloads but I always want to load at night to stay on schedule. Anyway, I have found that the cat stoves don't mind if you load on top of a partially burned load. No need to wait until the previous load has expired.

Much like the fuel tank on my pickup, I keep it topped off when I can't hold 24 hour cycles.

Interesting. I'll have to try that.

 

[Calentarse]

Interesting. My dad must have a killer draft with his PH or the IS is a better heater because he has barely any heat left in the am when he comes down....I mean, he has coals, but he's definitely ready for a reload...by then his heat is running

 

[3650]

These kinds of threads make me wish I had passed on my used Woodstock Fireview and just put the money towards an IS or AS. I wonder if they will come out with a add-on secondary air kit for the fireview? That would be awesome.

 

[begreen]

It's rare to hear a complaint about that stove. It gets a decent long burn and puts out a nice steady warmth. Burn a season or two in the Fireview and you may be surprised at how much you like it.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Thermal mass isn't worth a hill of beans if you have an appliance that is capable of extended, constant, heat output. There should be no peaks that need to be evened out. The sides of the firebox are cool because the fire isn't the hot thing, it's the cat doing the work most of the time.

It's great to have the option of stone. It does look very nice and it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

Yeah I agree. Many talk about the thermal mass, but on a stove that can burn low and for a long time it really doesn't matter IMO. It might help a little, since the ISH is still a hybrid with manual control, still more peaky than a blaze king, but if you want longer more even heat just turn the thing down. That being said the soapstone liner I would hope to be more durable in the long run that firebrick, and if you want just about any option you might as well get the works package which comes with everything versus adding just 1 or 2 option al la carte. So I don't think the soapstone is a huge deal but it is also fairly inexpensive.

The IS is a steel stove, with soapstone internals instead of firebrick. The side panels on it have soapstone discs... that part might be optional. What's WAF?

The round disc part is a steel insert, the soapstone is actualy a big square piece that is inside the side panels, not that it really matters, just fyi.

Just a question. When you close it down for a long burn, how dirty is the glass?

That depends entirely on how far you close it down and how long of a burn you want. And everyone is going to be different based on heating needs, wood species, etc. If I go for maximumlong burn - keeping it restricted to cat-only burn (no flames in the firebox), it will turn pretty much everything in the firebox black including the door, and with good hardwood you should be looking at 24 hrs or so. I've had the door so black there was only about an inch or so in the top corners that you could shine a 1,000 lumen flashlight through to see inside. If your definition of close it down is just for an 8-12 hr shift at work or overnight burn then you can probably keep the glass pretty clean and burn with secondaries for a good chunk of the burn cycle.