Tractor size?

[BrotherBart]

I am going to side with VirginiaIron on this question.. I am the proud owner of a 1952 Ford 8N (and previously a 1950 Ford 8N that I gave to my Father) and could not be happier. The older tractors are so much easier to work on yourself without the reliance of a dealership. Heck, the Old Man and I even sold our John Deere 2210 SCUT with a front end loader because we enjoyed the ease of maintenance on the Ford 8N so much; there isn't a thing you can't do yourself with these old machines maintenance wise. Everything is easily accessible when working on them. Not to mention these tractors pack plenty of power for gasoline engines.

On the other hand, when there was a leaky front axel seal on the John Deere 2210, we had to take it to the dealer so they could remove the entire front end to simply replace a small seal in the front axel.

These reliable tractors can often be purchased in the ball park of $2500-$3000 for a sound working machine along with several attachments, which is even a bigger bonus. If you're not shy to running a gear shift, vintage and reliable tractor, I would take a look at some of the old Ford, Massey Ferguson, Farmall, and International tractors.

Ah the memories of Grandpa farming two hundred acres and putting six kids through school with that 8n. Some of it with me sitting on the fender. Wish I had one.

 

[jwfirebird]

same here, 8n was the first one i drove too, but a lot of them are just restored to put around. they use a ton of gas, anything before 80s gas. i used like 11 gallons in the 4400 with 5ft cutter mowing 6-10acres so 30-40 bucks vs 25 every couple times in my tc30. shibura diesel hardly any fuel used

 

[VirginiaIron]

I run my diesel engine conservatively and I think the last time I checked I was running about a gallon an hour. The Ferguson uses more gas than that but much less than my Craftsman 5000/24hp/48" Kohler and has cut my seat time down almost in half since I went from 48" to 72". I was using the Branson for mowing up until I got the Ferguson.
EDIT- Also, the Ferguson can run super slow and the governor prevents it from stalling out. One could almost call it a ghost tractor plowing if you were crazy enough to get off when it was rolling.

 

[jwfirebird]

massey makes a nice tractor, if i was rich it would just be a massey 30hp compact, like a 30 15 or 16. loaders and backhoes are alot on those but they have the best ease of use and maintenance.

i have a to style one too, but diesel industrial with a backhoe and loader, shuttle and the backhoe slides sideways and you move side to side on the seat so you dont have to crank your head back and forth. pretty advanced for back then. been thinking about getting rid of that though old tractors are to heavy for my area, and alot to keep up, would rather just have a qa loader and backhoe for my tc

i hve the similar for my yard only mow when spring is real wet with the tc, i have a craftsman 4400, with 26 kohler and 54in, and 60in offset and that takes like two hours. before that had a mtd with the b and s 17.5 like all the deere and husky crap, leaky and wore (plastic gears and crap in engine) out all the time, took 4hrs too, same abuse and yard after many years only have put oil and filters and belts on it

 

[Sodbuster]

I have a Mahindra 4035, and love it. I traded my old 1974 Massey Ferguson for it. It was a short learning curve, the new smaller diesels need to rev to make full power, and don't like to lug. I could lug the 4 cylinder Perkins on the Massey all day. I've had have my tractor for a couple years, and really enjoy not getting stuck. It will arround 2400lbs, but at the pins, not with pallet forks attached to the bucket. It's super stingy with fuel for the amount of work I can get done.Last winter we had a blizzard, and my wife was getting concerned because I hadn't plowed the driveway yet (600'). I wanted to wait until it stopped blowing and snowing to plow, so i plowed anyway to make her happy. I moved 18" of wet snow using my back blade like it wasn't even there, barely had to bump the throttle. It's my main firewood getter with the splitter in tow and the bucket full of saws/gas and tool box.

 

[Ashful]

Interesting question: Is there a CUT still made in the USA?

Deere is famous for making agricultural tractors in the USA, but they were already buying their CUTs from Yanmar in Japan by 1981 (maybe even earlier... I don't know). Kubota, the other leading brand, is also Japanese. No surprise how this legacy started, Japanese manufacturing was much less expensive than ours, 30+ years ago. That gap has closed, as their material and manufacturing quality has improved to be perhaps better than our own, but there's momentum there.

It seems a lot of the newer "budget" brands are from India. Like Japan in the 1970's, this makes sense. Like Japan, China, and the long list of other countries we have exploited for cheap manufacturing, things start out rough, but quality improves with time. So does cost.

But for the die-hard, who wanted to buy a machine made in USA at any cost, does it even exist?

 

[Fiziksgeek]

Interesting question: Is there a CUT still made in the USA?

Deere is famous for making agricultural tractors in the USA, but they were already buying their CUTs from Yanmar in Japan by 1981 (maybe even earlier... I don't know). Kubota, the other leading brand, is also Japanese. No surprise how this legacy started, Japanese manufacturing was much less expensive than ours, 30+ years ago. That gap has closed, as their material and manufacturing quality has improved to be perhaps better than our own, but there's momentum there.

It seems a lot of the newer "budget" brands are from India. Like Japan in the 1970's, this makes sense. Like Japan, China, and the long list of other countries we have exploited for cheap manufacturing, things start out rough, but quality improves with time. So does cost.

But for the die-hard, who wanted to buy a machine made in USA at any cost, does it even exist?

I have a Massey Ferguson, built by Iseki in Japan, but the loader and backhoe are from Alo industries in Tennessee, and the snow blower comes from Rad Tech in Canada.

Kubota is the most "integrated" manufacturer, in that their tractors, engines, loader, backhoes are all built by Kubota. Though I would assume they will have components made all over...not just in Japan..

Ummm...I believe the John Deere 1000, 3000 and 4000 series have Yanmar engines, but are built/assembled here in Georgia. That's probably as close as you will get to a US product. I think the 2000 series are built by Yanmar completely (though it might have changes with the newest line up), and I believe the 5000 series are now "built" in India, or at leas the economy models. I don't believe you'll find any tractor, and in fact hardly anything at all, where all the components are US made AND all the assembly is done here in the US...

 

[Sodbuster]

Interesting question: Is there a CUT still made in the USA?

Deere is famous for making agricultural tractors in the USA, but they were already buying their CUTs from Yanmar in Japan by 1981 (maybe even earlier... I don't know). Kubota, the other leading brand, is also Japanese. No surprise how this legacy started, Japanese manufacturing was much less expensive than ours, 30+ years ago. That gap has closed, as their material and manufacturing quality has improved to be perhaps better than our own, but there's momentum there.

It seems a lot of the newer "budget" brands are from India. Like Japan in the 1970's, this makes sense. Like Japan, China, and the long list of other countries we have exploited for cheap manufacturing, things start out rough, but quality improves with time. So does cost.

But for the die-hard, who wanted to buy a machine made in USA at any cost, does it even exist?

Unfortunately, the short answer is no. Mine was "assemled" in the USA, which probably means they put the wheels on.

 

[VirginiaIron]

I have a Mahindra 4035, and love it. I traded my old 1974 Massey Ferguson for it. It was a short learning curve, the new smaller diesels need to rev to make full power, and don't like to lug. I could lug the 4 cylinder Perkins on the Massey all day. I've had have my tractor for a couple years, and really enjoy not getting stuck. It will arround 2400lbs, but at the pins, not with pallet forks attached to the bucket. It's super stingy with fuel for the amount of work I can get done.Last winter we had a blizzard, and my wife was getting concerned because I hadn't plowed the driveway yet (600'). I wanted to wait until it stopped blowing and snowing to plow, so i plowed anyway to make her happy. I moved 18" of wet snow using my back blade like it wasn't even there, barely had to bump the throttle. It's my main firewood getter with the splitter in tow and the bucket full of saws/gas and tool box.

I liked that model and wanted it before I test drove it, it was a beast. The problem I believed I had with it was the gear shift location and the operation of the loader. This model may not have been assembled correctly- when I was test driving it on the lot, down a side sloped embankment the loader started to sway left and right and I had to stop to break the cycle. It looked as if there were bushings missing and the pins were too loose. I checked a smaller model and it definitely appeared that the design was using bushings, but those bushings appeared to be constructed of some sort of nylon. The gear shift location was causing my right leg to cramp. Does your loader have bushings at the pivot pins?

 

[Sodbuster]

I liked that model and wanted it before I test drove it, it was a beast. The problem I believed I had with it was the gear shift location and the operation of the loader. This model may not have been assembled correctly- when I was test driving it on the lot, down a side sloped embankment the loader started to sway left and right and I had to stop to break the cycle. It looked as if there were bushings missing and the pins were too loose. I checked a smaller model and it definitely appeared that the design was using bushings, but those bushings appeared to be constructed of some sort of nylon. The gear shift location was causing my right leg to cramp. Does your loader have bushings at the pivot pins?

Wow, not sure what they gave you to drive, but mine has no nylon bushings, just steel pins through steel sleeves, with zerk grease fittings.. Almost sounds like they didn't attach the detachable loader correctly. I have moved well over 400 tons of sand, crushed asphalt, and dirt with mine and no problems. As far as the shifter location, I have the shuttle shift. To my left I have 3 ranges High, Medium and Low. To the right I have gear selectors 1st through 4th. I can select any range and gear combination and then use a forward/reverse lever to go forward or reverse without touching the clutch. None of the shift levers are remotely near your legs. It's an open center tractor, meaning the shift levers are not over the transmission like the older tractors.

 

[Ashful]

Gear shift on a CUT with a loader? Maybe before 1965... but why on earth would anyone buy such a thing today?!?

Surely, you meant something else, when you said gear shift???

 

[VirginiaIron]

... As far as the shifter location, I have the shuttle shift. To my left I have 3 ranges High, Medium and Low. To the right I have gear selectors 1st through 4th. ...

Pardon my inability to properly identify the "gear selector". I meant gear selector. When I was using the tractor in first or second gear, the stick was too far into the platform area for me to be comfortable. In order not to touch or put pressure on the stick from my right leg, I needed to draw my leg into the center of the platform in a certain way and that was causing "my" leg to begin to cramp. As far as the loader sway, maybe the bushings weren't nylon, BUT there was so much slop (machined-not ware) at the pin location it was a deal breaker. It was such a disappointment, maybe the seat was not adjusted correctly or maybe it was a different tractor.

 

[VirginiaIron]

EDIT- I added one photo for a what I think is might be more accurate photograph. I do not know if the loader was a pedastle mount or incorporated a control tower.
2003/2004 This is what it looked like but I do not recall if it had this exact loader, or if it had a control tower crowding my leg or a separate stick. It was a Mahindra. I believe it was a 4035 or one larger and it had this same tire ratio. I remember the tire size ratio Made it look so much more stronger than all the other tractors in the size I was looking at. Now, to be fair, the dealer did have several Loader manufacturers that were offered with new tractors, but the after market loaders all looked odd on the tractors and I was not interested in those models. This loader, I believe, was from the factory and appeared matched OEM equipment- something I definitely remembered. It swayed like a 3 point hitch that wasn't properly taken up.

 

[Sodbuster]

Odd, when mine is in 1st gear, the shifter isn't anywhere near my leg, you must be a big guy.

 

[Sodbuster]

Gear shift on a CUT with a loader? Maybe before 1965... but why on earth would anyone buy such a thing today?!?

Surely, you meant something else, when you said gear shift???

Not sure who this was directed at, but mines not a true gear shift, it's like John Deere's PowerReverser. I rarely need to touch the clutch. M3 is about perfect for everything,

 

[VirginiaIron]

It was directed at my comment about the gear shift.

 

[Ashful]

The last tractor I used with a manual trans and a loader was a 1970’s Deere 750. What an incredibly inconvenient combo! Every other FEL I’ve used has been hydrostatic. It’s the only way to roll, IMO.

 

[jwfirebird]

true, would think it would be hard to find a real manual any more. i wouldnt buy anything but a hydro anymore, mine operates fine and you never have to mess with the throttle

dont think you can buy a really made in in the usa one anymore, the big american brands outsource the compact and subs. my new holland is japanese, i think made by the same people as the LS ones. it has a shubura diesel, can be lugged as much as any older one i have. the deeres i have ran they were a little worse but most of the time i ran the 110 we had at work half rpm of the 540 mark for digging and using the loader, 3/4 using the bobcat brush mower in heavy stuff, that was a cut too basically a yanmar CUT with yellow plastic to make it 4 times the cost

the massey i havent run but by the sounds of the reviews it has to be run very high to mow, unlike my nh, you never know though, some people do all of them because thats how they learn or whatever but i have to pay for my own fuel and maintenance so im running it as low as it will not lug

 

[Ashful]

that was a cut too basically a yanmar CUT with yellow plastic to make it 4 times the cost

It's not the yellow plastic that makes it cost more, it's maintaining a dealer network and marketing (advertising costs) that make it cost more. Let's face it, you can't just walk into a Yanmar dealer and get the parts you need off the shelf to fix your tractor, when it breaks. But for all of those brands selling re-badged Yanmars, you can count on them to usually have the parts you need on the shelf that day. There's a lot of cost associated with that.

 

[VirginiaIron]

...the massey i havent run but by the sounds of the reviews it has to be run very high to mow, unlike my nh, you never know though, some people do all of them because thats how they learn or whatever but i have to pay for my own fuel and maintenance so im running it as low as it will not lug

I only have one small hydro and I am not sure I like it. [EDIT- (clarification) With gear models,] 99% of the time, I am using my fuel pedal and I am at idle for clutch operation and gear changes. I believe this prolongs the life of the throwout bearings and synchronizers. There are times when I run manual throttle to prevent lugging during heavy work. The last two hydro tractors I tested would not lift the front wheels for servicing the front end or changing a tires, I guess the hydro was fighting the loader even under mid-rpm. How much HP does the hydro use from the overall engine HP?

 

[Ashful]

I only have one small hydro and I am not sure I like it. 99% of the time, I am using my fuel pedal and I am at idle for clutch operation and gear changes. I believe this prolongs the life of the throwout bearings and synchronizers.

No throwout bearings or synchro's to damage in a hydro machine.

The last two hydro tractors I tested would not lift the front wheels for servicing the front end or changing a tires, I guess the hydro was fighting the loader even under mid-rpm. How much HP does the hydro use from the overall engine HP?

This does't make any sense to me. You're implying you're stalling the engine? If not, engine HP has nothing to do with it. More often, it's the accessory bypass that unloads, when pushing high loads on the loader. This has everything to do with the litigious society in which we live, and the manufacturer's fear of liability, and nothing to do with hydro vs. manual transmission.

Modern loaders are set up to bypass at a "safe" weight, to minimize tipping and loss of braking hazards. Since folks are often comparing new hydro machines to old manual machines, they get it in their head it's a "hydro vs. manual" thing, when it's really a "new vs. old" thing.

 

[jwfirebird]

exactly right, that 110 will pick up the front but barely, its a 30 or 35 hp, while the 70s 4400 we had same hp would probably lift 50 percent more. it toned down hydraulic system on the newer stuff

 

[VirginiaIron]

No throwout bearings or synchro's to damage in a hydro machine.


This does't make any sense to me. You're implying you're stalling the engine? If not, engine HP has nothing to do with it. More often, it's the accessory bypass that unloads, when pushing high loads on the loader. This has everything to do with the litigious society in which we live, and the manufacturer's fear of liability, and nothing to do with hydro vs. manual transmission. Modern loaders are set up to bypass at a "safe" weight, to minimize tipping and loss of braking hazards. Since folks are often comparing new hydro machines to old manual machines, they get it in their head it's a "hydro vs. manual" thing, when it's really a "new vs. old" thing.

I'm sorry, I thought I placed a period between the two sentences. The fuel pedal operation applies to gear models equipped with a foot pedal throttle- I will clarify, thanks. I never implied that I was stalling the engine. I attempted to lift the front end, with the bucket's face toward the ground, using the loader, and those tractors would not do anything at idle and mid throttle. It didn't make sense to me either as all gear loaders I have operated would lift the front end and drag the rear tires if necessary. These were brand new tractors. During operation, just the hydro and not the work being performed, is parasitic to the engine HP.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I'm sorry, I thought I placed a period between the two sentences. The fuel pedal operation applies to gear models equipped with a foot pedal throttle- I will clarify, thanks. I never implied that I was stalling the engine. I attempted to lift the front end, with the bucket's face toward the ground, using the loader, and those tractors would not do anything at idle and mid throttle. It didn't make sense to me either as all gear loaders I have operated would lift the front end and drag the rear tires if necessary. These were brand new tractors. During operation, just the hydro and not the work being performed, is parasitic to the engine HP.

Something still doesn't make sense. Yes, hydro take a little power, but its not more than a couple horsepower. Some tractors like Kubota's little BX, need a little throttle before you get any appreciable hydraulic power. My Massey Ferguson has full strength at idle. Once the pump has enough input to develop pressure, the only thing extra throttle gets you in flow, which equated to speed int eh hydraulics. If you can't lift the front end off floor, you're either have 1) a geometry problem, ie the tractor can't lift the front end in the position you were trying...you said bucket face toward the ground? That seems weird to me, did you put the bucket flat on the ground (face forward) and try the dump/curl circuit? Or 2) you have a hydraulic problem...such as an issues with the relief valve as mentioned.

 

[VirginiaIron]

The bucket position flat on the ground only left about 2 inches travel on the rods. I tried this with the bucket's blade on the ground or the face/opening toward the ground. This position gives more travel, about 8 inches on my loader and permits the removal of the wheel, rather than getting a jack.- don't forget the blocking or the jack stand. BUT, more importantly, if you get the tractor stuck or the front end in a bind or sunk in mud, it permits planking the soil's surface below the tire. And, also permits the operator to use the bucket's edge (in a curling motion) to push the rear of the tractor backwards onto a more solid ground or a surface with more traction- reducing the chances of needing a pull or a wrecker service.