TIS Uni wood boilers

[SpaceBus]

So for cordwood the UNi actually does have secondary combustion. Both the Eko coal and pellet Duo don't have secondary combustion due to not being primary fuel use. Each model is designed to run optimal on specified fuel is what they told me.

Where are they made? The Cyrillic script reads "Belkomin", which is weird.

 

[andym]

Where are they made? The Cyrillic script reads "Belkomin", which is weird.

Poland is what I read somewhere. Doesn't the test result give an address in warsaw?

If the boiler puts out no visible smoke and flu temps are under 400 it has to be at least 75% efficient, right? I'm really leaning toward purchasing one. 2700 shipped vs 4-5k min for anything else is looking pretty attractive. I could always upgrade in 5 years......

I'm hoping Oscar111 will reply with some more info on his Uni....amount of visible smoke, pics of combustion chamber, etc.....

 

[SpaceBus]

Poland is what I read somewhere. Doesn't the test result give an address in warsaw?

If the boiler puts out no visible smoke and flu temps are under 400 it has to be at least 75% efficient, right? I'm really leaning toward purchasing one. 2700 shipped vs 4-5k min for anything else is looking pretty attractive. I could always upgrade in 5 years......

I'm hoping Oscar111 will reply with some more info on his Uni....amount of visible smoke, pics of combustion chamber, etc.....

I was looking for the address, but must have missed it. Even 75% is pretty good, definitely at the price for the 15kw and up models.

 

[andym]

I was looking for the address, but must have missed it. Even 75% is pretty good, definitely at the price for the 15kw and up models.

I was originally looking at getting a non-epa OWB. Anything would be better than that for efficiency. I stumbled onto the Uni's on Ebay, which led me to all the other indoor boilers.

I'm considering a GoFundMe page so that I can raise money to install a Uni, Froling,Garn, etc side by side and do extensive testing to compare. If all Hearth members gave 100 dollars I should have plenty! .....or not!

I'm supposed to be getting a call this eve from someone on Mbteks client map. He has a Uni wood boiler and doesn't live too far away.....hope he enjoys being interrogated!

 

[3fordasho]

I was originally looking at getting a non-epa OWB. Anything would be better than that for efficiency. I stumbled onto the Uni's on Ebay, which led me to all the other indoor boilers.

I'm considering a GoFundMe page so that I can raise money to install a Uni, Froling,Garn, etc side by side and do extensive testing to compare. If all Hearth members gave 100 dollars I should have plenty! .....or not!

I'm supposed to be getting a call this eve from someone on Mbteks client map. He has a Uni wood boiler and doesn't live too far away.....hope he enjoys being interrogated!

A real gasifier with heat exchanger tubes (ORLAN/EKO), Atmos) can be imported directly from kotly.com for about the same price as these mbtek conventional boilers. Personally I want someone in the states to call if there is a problem so I purchased my Attack through Zenon at newhorizon. Kotly will quote with shipping to the states.

 

[SpaceBus]

A real gasifier with heat exchanger tubes (ORLAN/EKO), Atmos) can be imported directly from kotly.com for about the same price as these mbtek conventional boilers. Personally I want someone in the states to call if there is a problem so I purchased my Attack through Zenon at newhorizon. Kotly will quote with shipping to the states.

What is freight from Poland like? The Eko units are the same price or less than the Mbtek units and definitely better. I'd rather not message anyone at Kotly to satisfy my curiosity, this is just something I'm investigating for the future.

 

[Woodman1]

Wow I had no idea you could still get a new eko/Orlan! It would be very interesting to see what the shipping cost to the U.S. would be. If it is not crazy I would waaaaay rather have a proven eko gasser.

 

[3fordasho]

What is freight from Poland like? The Eko units are the same price or less than the Mbtek units and definitely better. I'd rather not message anyone at Kotly to satisfy my curiosity, this is just something I'm investigating for the future.

I have a quote from a year ago, an 40kw orlan/EKO was $2600 shipping included. I found a few people here had sourced from kotly successfully, and also a period of time they were not shipping to the US. Just use the search function and search for kotly.com

 

[andym]

What is freight from Poland like? The Eko units are the same price or less than the Mbtek units and definitely better. I'd rather not message anyone at Kotly to satisfy my curiosity, this is just something I'm investigating for the future.

The boilers ship from near Philadelphia, PA. I can have it delivered to my door for 2700.I read a thread on here about kotly.com. My understanding is that it is not quite as straightforward.

I do realize there is a difference between the Uni and the Eko. Perhaps like comparing John Deere tractors with LS, etc.

 

[SpaceBus]

The boilers ship from near Philadelphia, PA. I can have it delivered to my door for 2700.I read a thread on here about kotly.com. My understanding is that it is not quite as straightforward.

I do realize there is a difference between the Uni and the Eko. Perhaps like comparing John Deere tractors with LS, etc.

Eh, the EKO is a budget gassifier, so maybe like comparing a new tier 4 diesel truck to an 06 Cummins Ram. The Uni boiler would probably be less maintenance intensive without the cast refractory nozzles. The Uni 35 is definitely an attractive package.

 

[3fordasho]

Eh, the EKO is a budget gassifier, so maybe like comparing a new tier 4 diesel truck to an 06 Cummins Ram. The Uni boiler would probably be less maintenance intensive without the cast refractory nozzles. The Uni 35 is definitely an attractive package.

I don't have an EKO or one of the Mbtek Uni boilers. There are however literally 100's if not thousands of post here about EKO boiler experiences, installs, tuning tips, nozzle replacement, etc. Is there one serious feedback post here about the Mbtek boilers from an actual user? One that has been around here and provided feedback over a period of use?

Color me skeptical until I see more from real users.

 

[andym]

I don't have an EKO or one of the Mbtek Uni boilers. There are however literally 100's if not thousands of post here about EKO boiler experiences, installs, tuning tips, nozzle replacement, etc. Is there one serious feedback post here about the Mbtek boilers from an actual user? One that has been around here and provided feedback over a period of use?

Color me skeptical until I see more from real users.

I understand completely. My conversation with the Mbtek client was good, however he had a coal boiler not wood. have to try some more.
There is something inside me that always wants to give the cheapest option a chance to shine. That's why I buy some things at Harbor Freight now and then.

 

[maple1]

The TIS/Mbtek may very well meet someones needs. But it is not a gasifier. As a result you would need to stay on top of cleaning - those tubes will cake up fairly quickly in a dirty burner, and there goes your efficiency. Even a gasser benefits from weekly brushings, and that is only fly ash not creosote. And you would burn more wood than with a gasifier. Whether that is significant or not, would be up to the user.

No comment on the 'test sheet'. I do not understand it. But it does look kind of weird - the header of the pages looks different resolution than the main body. Like some sort of cut & paste photoshop job. I still maintain the efficiency number is inaccurate & misleading, somehow. If it was in the 70's it might be more realistic, I feel - even then may be a stretch.

 

[maple1]

Eh, the EKO is a budget gassifier, so maybe like comparing a new tier 4 diesel truck to an 06 Cummins Ram. The Uni boiler would probably be less maintenance intensive without the cast refractory nozzles. The Uni 35 is definitely an attractive package.

It would be more maintenance intensive, IMO. Much more cleaning/tube brushing required. Of the boiler, and the whole chimney system. I haven't cleaned my chimney at all in 7.5 years.

 

[SpaceBus]

I don't have an EKO or one of the Mbtek Uni boilers. There are however literally 100's if not thousands of post here about EKO boiler experiences, installs, tuning tips, nozzle replacement, etc. Is there one serious feedback post here about the Mbtek boilers from an actual user? One that has been around here and provided feedback over a period of use?

Color me skeptical until I see more from real users.

Agreed, I am quite skeptical.

 

[andym]

It would be more maintenance intensive, IMO. Much more cleaning/tube brushing required. Of the boiler, and the whole chimney system. I haven't cleaned my chimney at all in 7.5 years.

The cleaning of the heat exchanger is in fact the biggest hold up for me. Access is really nice, similar to Varms. However with no turbulators it will need to be done one at a time and then only when not burning.
I'm convinced the boiler would suit my needs. BUT I do know that after my checkbook recovers I will ask myself: "why didn't I buy a lambda controlled boiler?" My checkook will reply, "because your a tight wad, and and a sucker for cheap things."
I'm holding off on the final decision until I can talk with someone who runs a Uni boiler. I'm leaning heavily toward the Attack tho.

 

[3fordasho]

The cleaning of the heat exchanger is in fact the biggest hold up for me. Access is really nice, similar to Varms. However with no turbulators it will need to be done one at a time and then only when not burning.
I'm convinced the boiler would suit my needs. BUT I do know that after my checkbook recovers I will ask myself: "why didn't I buy a lambda controlled boiler?" My checkook will reply, "because your a tight wad, and and a sucker for cheap things."
I'm holding off on the final decision until I can talk with someone who runs a Uni boiler. I'm leaning heavily toward the Attack tho.

What I have found so far in regards to cleaning the Attack - The factory provided cleaning set up is a lever mechanism that moves the turbulators up and down in the exchanger tubes. I do this before every burn, takes about 5 seconds and nothing needs to be disassembled, just grab the lever and move up/down 4-6 times. Now a brush run thru the tubes would get them cleaner and I have done that once this season. I keep an eye on exhaust temps and so far they stay pretty consistent and they did not drop much when I did the brush cleaning. If they start to creep up during burns that is an indicator that a better cleaning could be required. So far it does not appear there would be a big efficiency advantage to brush cleaning the tubes more often. The Varms are by far the simplest to brush clean the tubes.

If I thought there was a big advantage to brushing the tubes on the Attack more frequently I would modify the lever mechanism to make it easier to remove the turbulators - as it is with the factory set up it's about a 30 minute job because the part of the lever mechanism must be removed to get the turbulators out. Others have done something similar with EKO boilers as a lot of the Euro boilers have a similar set up. I will agree with @maple1 on the chimney cleaning, once the gases have gone through the nozzle, there is nothing but light fly ash and chimney cleanings are really not necessary or can be done much less often. (assuming of course you are not trying to stuff a bunch of green wood through it and not gasifying)

Thoughts on wood moisture content. In a forced/induced draft gasifier with storage the boiler is running wide open. IMHO wood dryness is even more important on a non-gasifier be it a boiler with no storage or EPA woodstove or furnace because these are usually run with the inlet air restricted. Now I'm not saying you should run green wood through a gasifier, but I bet it would be more tolerant if there is a piece or two of not optimally seasoned wood in the mix.

 

[andym]

What I have found so far in regards to cleaning the Attack - The factory provided cleaning set up is a lever mechanism that moves the turbulators up and down in the exchanger tubes. I do this before every burn, takes about 5 seconds and nothing needs to be disassembled, just grab the lever and move up/down 4-6 times. Now a brush run thru the tubes would get them cleaner and I have done that once this season. I keep an eye on exhaust temps and so far they stay pretty consistent and they did not drop much when I did the brush cleaning. If they start to creep up during burns that is an indicator that a better cleaning could be required. So far it does not appear there would be a big efficiency advantage to brush cleaning the tubes more often. The Varms are by far the simplest to brush clean the tubes.

If I thought there was a big advantage to brushing the tubes on the Attack more frequently I would modify the lever mechanism to make it easier to remove the turbulators - as it is with the factory set up it's about a 30 minute job because the part of the lever mechanism must be removed to get the turbulators out. Others have done something similar with EKO boilers as a lot of the Euro boilers have a similar set up. I will agree with @maple1 on the chimney cleaning, once the gases have gone through the nozzle, there is nothing but light fly ash and chimney cleanings are really not necessary or can be done much less often. (assuming of course you are not trying to stuff a bunch of green wood through it and not gasifying)

Thoughts on wood moisture content. In a forced/induced draft gasifier with storage the boiler is running wide open. IMHO wood dryness is even more important on a non-gasifier be it a boiler with no storage or EPA woodstove or furnace because these are usually run with the inlet air restricted. Now I'm not saying you should run green wood through a gasifier, but I bet it would be more tolerant if there is a piece or two of not optimally seasoned wood in the mix.

I only burn dry wood anyway. Finally got a moisture meter and tested some pieces that were stacked next to the stove for two weeks: 7-12%. I expected more like 20%. Haven't checked the stuff in the woodshed. This is probably why I've never had to clean my chimney either. Very dry wood and fairly high flu temps = no condensation = no creosote = no cleaning. I checked my exterior masonry chimney last fall after burning for two years. There was literally no point in running the sweep down it. Prior to this house I ran the same stove 5 seasons on a SS chimney and never cleaned it once.

 

[SpaceBus]

Are the attack boilers still available? What's the deal with the 2020 EPA regs and new wood hydronic units?

 

[andym]

Are the attack boilers still available? What's the deal with the 2020 EPA regs and new wood hydronic units?

Newhorizonstore still has them. I'm not sure if they are certified.

 

[3fordasho]

Are the attack boilers still available? What's the deal with the 2020 EPA regs and new wood hydronic units?

I just bought a 2nd in December, working on installation for my shop now.

New 2020 EPA regulations go into effect May or June IIRC. I guess you better have one with the EPA cert if installed after that date and you have a local enforcement agency that looks at such things, or if you have a neighbor that will complain about your wood burning and then you better have ducks in a row and will probably still have a hassle.

In my case I need binoculars to see my nearest neighbor and no one cares if I install a clean wood burner. In fact no one locally knows I even have it. Now a old smoke dragon OWB that I stuff full of green logs everyday - eh I might be able to get away with that too but I don't want to put up with that myself.

You will notice that some of the euro gasifiers are listed as "commercial use", like the EKO's at newhorizonstore.com. That doesn't mean they are not very clean burners, it just means the manufacturer or importer has not elected to spend the $$$ and jump through the hoops the EPA is requiring to get the cert.

My Attack was not listed as "commercial use" but also is not on the 2020 EPA list.

You can bet the mbtek TIS Uni boilers will not be on the 2020 EPA approved list either.

I know this is not a real answer, but it has been asked here several times and I have not seen a real legal type answer yet.

 

[andym]

I just bought a 2nd in December, working on installation for my shop now.

New 2020 EPA regulations go into effect May or June IIRC. I guess you better have one with the EPA cert if installed after that date and you have a local enforcement agency that looks at such things, or if you have a neighbor that will complain about your wood burning and then you better have ducks in a row and will probably still have a hassle.

In my case I need binoculars to see my nearest neighbor and no one cares if I install a clean wood burner. In fact no one locally knows I even have it. Now a old smoke dragon OWB that I stuff full of green logs everyday - eh I might be able to get away with that too but I don't want to put up with that myself.

You will notice that some of the euro gasifiers are listed as "commercial use", like the EKO's at newhorizonstore.com. That doesn't mean they are not very clean burners, it just means the manufacturer or importer has not elected to spend the $$$ and jump through the hoops the EPA is requiring to get the cert.

My Attack was not listed as "commercial use" but also is not on the 2020 EPA list.

You can bet the mbtek TIS Uni boilers will not be on the 2020 EPA approved list either.

I know this is not a real answer, but it has been asked here several times and I have not seen a real legal type answer yet.

My understanding as well. No one will complain about me, at least not until the epa gets rid of that smoke dragon half mile west of me. I don't need binoculars to tell when he loads it up.....

3fordasho: really like your YouTube videos of your setup.

 

[SpaceBus]

I just bought a 2nd in December, working on installation for my shop now.

New 2020 EPA regulations go into effect May or June IIRC. I guess you better have one with the EPA cert if installed after that date and you have a local enforcement agency that looks at such things, or if you have a neighbor that will complain about your wood burning and then you better have ducks in a row and will probably still have a hassle.

In my case I need binoculars to see my nearest neighbor and no one cares if I install a clean wood burner. In fact no one locally knows I even have it. Now a old smoke dragon OWB that I stuff full of green logs everyday - eh I might be able to get away with that too but I don't want to put up with that myself.

You will notice that some of the euro gasifiers are listed as "commercial use", like the EKO's at newhorizonstore.com. That doesn't mean they are not very clean burners, it just means the manufacturer or importer has not elected to spend the $$$ and jump through the hoops the EPA is requiring to get the cert.

My Attack was not listed as "commercial use" but also is not on the 2020 EPA list.

You can bet the mbtek TIS Uni boilers will not be on the 2020 EPA approved list either.

I know this is not a real answer, but it has been asked here several times and I have not seen a real legal type answer yet.

As long as the units remain available I'm not concerned if the EPA likes them or not. A UL listing is also a big benefit. My cookstove isn't EPA approved, but is rated highly on the European system. It's all relative

 

[Highbeam]

My understanding as well. No one will complain about me, at least not until the epa gets rid of that smoke dragon half mile west of me. I don't need binoculars to tell when he loads it up.....

3fordasho: really like your YouTube videos of your setup.

that smoke dragon neighbor makes all wood burners look bad. What you need to worry about is whether the rule or method used to get rid of him is so broad that they stop you from burning wood too. Regulators are not that smart and are usually not wood burners themselves.

 

[Case1030]

that smoke dragon neighbor makes all wood burners look bad. What you need to worry about is whether the rule or method used to get rid of him is so broad that they stop you from burning wood too. Regulators are not that smart and are usually not wood burners themselves.

Yes very true, one ruins it for many.