The Hampton HI300 just doesn't seem to be throwing enough heat. What am I doing wrong?????????

[SherryAnn]

Iceman - you got it wrong, bud... Adding insulation stopped the stove's heat that was going up around the liner. That allowed portions of the stove which never before got hot to finally warm up to the curing temps. The fire itself has been plenty hot all along - i'm sure this did nothing at all for her DRAFT.

Adding insulation now would likely help her with future cleaning as that uninsulated liner in her big exterior chimney is pr
obably gonna condense a lot of creo. luckily it sounds like her wood is pretty good.

Seems some of us still wonder "what`s up"
first... A 5 gallon bucket of insulation quote from earlier thread... Is not much... but a roll of store-bought about the size of 5 gallons is a much larger pile.Enough where I would dread having to reach past my sourround having been removed, and get it all up that relative small opening. How much could really be up there? Use a stick to push it on up?...How long could that stick have been???
those pipes cool seriously fast people...creo is real... finish the job.
I keep seeing a pot of boiling water sending a columne of steam up.. that represents no insulation.. now put a lid on it and that represents your insulation no more steam rising... but the pot temp never changed...I still wonder!

What I don`t wonder about is that...Hampton spent thousands, and more of em, to develope this technology of secondary-burn, wash systems,(i wish i could see past my doors) ect.,ect. to conform to EPA and be competitive with thease cleaner burning fuels and stay in the market... why can`t they answer the simple questions they found answers to long ago?

i just found it hard to believe but i guess it makes sense?? because of a soft block-off plate the stove got warmer??? that is draft it was not enough because too much cold air was cooling the pipes not allowing the stove to really heat up... right? thats the reason?? with a raging fire the stove still shoulda got hot enough to cure it... the heat just goes up the chimney??
so... do to her lack of insulation, it allowed to much cold air down the sides of the pipe in which the pipe wasn't able to get hot enough to "draw up" with any intensity.... i guess ... just trying figure it out

Someone said earilier, the proof was in the pudding....I don't know as much as everyone else about draft and what not, all I can tell you is that with the same wood, and the same burning practices, my house is about 5 degrees (2 floor 1700sq feet) warmer since we put that insulation in. It seems like we were heating the whole masonry chimney, and the insulation helped the heat stay in the firebox. Am I simplifying it too much? Please don't detect sarcasm, I don't actually know, just learning. All I can tell you is my problem is a whole lot better now and that I will be insulating the rest of the chimney as soon as I can figure out what to put in there, so as not to creat a creosote problem. Seems hard to believe that something so simple could have made such a huge difference, but it did! I wasn't even confident it was going to work, but my thermometer in this room says it is 82.2 degrees!!

 

[granpajohn]

Well written, SA.

The search engine will sorta list this as an insulation thread, but I think it's really a block off plate thread.

Sherry Ann, if you get a chance, try looking over some of the many words written here about block off plates, especially when exterior chimneys are involved.

 

[SherryAnn]

Well written, SA.

The search engine will sorta list this as an insulation thread, but I think it's really a block off plate thread.

Sherry Ann, if you get a chance, try looking over some of the many words written here about block off plates, especially when exterior chimneys are involved.

Will do, thanks!

 

[stejus]

Remember that bit hole behind my insert? The other night when we loaded it up, I could see the stainless steel liner in there all glowing hot. A bit too hot maybe now? I haven't loaded it that much since Sat night.

That glowing flex pipe is a sign of overfiring. I have seen mine do it a couple of times as well. Now I know within 10 to 15 minutes, based on how it's burning, to turn it down. If you ever see a red glow in the air chamber (where the air blows out of the stove), shut down fully and put the blower on Manual High.

Back to what you need to do next. My set up is identical to yours. Here's what my sweep says I need to do next.

1. Insulate liner - this will reduce creosote buildup. In order to do this now that the stove is in place and the liner is connected, he has two options.
A. Remove stove and install block off plate, re-install stove.
or
B. From the outside, remove brick and install blockoff plate just above smoke shelf, re-install bricks.
and
C. Pour in insulation from the top. This is like kitty litter and it will fill in between the flex liner and clay flue.

I was quoted $300 for the job.

Oh, another thing. If you haven't ordered next years wood, start planning now. I already have 3 cords for next season 2009/2010. I hope to get 2 more in Feb if the snow melts a little. Then in the spring, 5 more cords for 2010/2011. This is a lot of wood up front, but once you build your inventory, you will never be without seasoned wood.

 

[johnn]

Well written, SA.

The search engine will sorta list this as an insulation thread, but I think it's really a block off plate thread.

Sherry Ann, if you get a chance, try looking over some of the many words written here about block off plates, especially when exterior chimneys are involved.

Goodness No SA ,your not misunderstood! If I knew as much as I unintentionally implied I do, then I wouldn`t be trying to come to terms as to how this works. And Work it did! I`m so glad for you, good job stickin.

It appears with this scenario, that maintaining heat the first few feet of pipe allows the burner to develope more inside!

I still say Hampton figured all this out during real time trials and could have been more helpful? I`m thankful however, that you initiated this thread in order we all may benefit!

There has been so much written about cold firing and shutting down...Do you feel your technique has changed enough to also have impacted the results?

 

[SherryAnn]

Well written, SA.

The search engine will sorta list this as an insulation thread, but I think it's really a block off plate thread.

Sherry Ann, if you get a chance, try looking over some of the many words written here about block off plates, especially when exterior chimneys are involved.

Goodness No SA ,your not misunderstood! If I knew as much as I unintentionally implied I do, then I wouldn`t be trying to come to terms as to how this works. And Work it did! I`m so glad for you, good job stickin.

It appears with this scenario, that maintaining heat the first few feet of pipe allows the burner to develope more inside!

I still say Hampton figured all this out during real time trials and could have been more helpful? I`m thankful however, that you initiated this thread in order we all may benefit!

There has been so much written about cold firing and shutting down...Do you feel your technique has changed enough to also have impacted the results?

Most of the posts took place over five days before I had the insulation put in. During that time, I was trying all the techniques everyone was suggesting, and they were not helping. The second the insulation was put in-BINGO! It all worked. So my technique improved before the problem improved. You are so right, Hampton's manual and tech support online are not helpful. I have NOTHING good to say about the person who answers the emails there. I waited very long for very short unhelpful responses, a disgrace really. I should write a lengthy letter to them about that.

 

[wtb1]

Broke down and went to Lowes and got some R30 insulation. I removed the upper trim piece and was able to stuff insulation up into the damper area. I tried to make sure I had it filled as best I could without removing the insert. It was 8:45pm before I could build a fire so quickly got some wood and kindling and started one. I could tell a difference. Not quite as dramatic as I was hoping as it took a while to get the stove up to 300 and I think it maxed out at about 310 to 315 but I was not really trying too hard. Once I got my kindling going I added to splits to start building heat. Once it had kinda died out I put the bigger splits and some rounds in the box to fill most of it up. It took off and I was backing the air down after 7 to 8 minutes. Temps rose and maxed at about 310 (hottest I have gotten it so far). I think I could have gotten hotter had I let this round die down and stuffed the box again. I did see more secondaries and with the air shut almost all the way I still had "lazy" flames and secondaries firing from the back of the box.

One question tho... Do you routinely see your secondary burn tubes glowing red?

 

[johnn]

[quote author="wtb1" date="1233691534"]Broke down and went to Lowes and got some R30 insulation. I removed the upper trim piece and was able to stuff insulation up into the damper area. I tried to make sure I had it filled as best I could without removing the insert. It was 8:45pm before I could build a fire so quickly got some wood and kindling and started one. I could tell a difference. Not quite as dramatic as I was hoping as it took a while to get the stove up to 300 and I think it maxed out at

I`m not able to answer question about tubes..,my stove is pre EPA,however my intention`s are to upgrade so I have read many threads even old ones,knowing I will soon experience this issue so many have. What I find in common among all threads is the issue of "seasoned" and stages of shutting down...how much? ...when?. My unlined burner will through heat from a bic lighter,however I lose much burn time and gain no lasting heat after fuel is burn`t. I know with my burner...that rounds are more difficult to get burning well, (maybe due to the bark), however I love the extended time in which they burn in my insert!Perhaps wait a little latter before putting them in?
from what I`ve read,..maybe rethink your impression of a full burn and wait a little longer before shutting down and reloading??? I don`t recall anyone getting secondaryburn in the 300 range? I`ve read so much I could be confusing myself? On a positive note it`s good to read that once again the insulation at least helps. Never knew that moisture content effects the coal size in the bed...something good to know! I`m torn between another insert or going with an add on wood burner for my central heat... If I ever decide I think I`ll go with a steel firebox for I`m quite certain my wife does not have the interest or patience to see through the necessary time and steps of firing a lined box.

 

[stejus]

One question tho... Do you routinely see your secondary burn tubes glowing red?

On my HI300 I get my tubes glowing at times. This only happens on a full load and in the beginning stages of knocking the air down. They eventually stop glowing once the air is limited, but still do their job!

 

[wtb1]

Mine glow when I get a full load going and start knocking the air down as well. I get good secondaries going but the stove top temp where I have my thermometer still reads about 300 to 310. The stove is hot (cannot stand in front of it too long). I may try not cutting the air back as quickly and see if that helps.

 

[SherryAnn]

Mine glow when I get a full load going and start knocking the air down as well. I get good secondaries going but the stove top temp where I have my thermometer still reads about 300 to 310. The stove is hot (cannot stand in front of it too long). I may try not cutting the air back as quickly and see if that helps.

That helped me a lot. I was cutting the air down all the way in about 15 mins. If you make the process take 45, you will get much hotter,...most likely.....

 

[iceman]

Iceman - you got it wrong, bud... Adding insulation stopped the stove's heat that was going up around the liner. That allowed portions of the stove which never before got hot to finally warm up to the curing temps. The fire itself has been plenty hot all along - i'm sure this did nothing at all for her DRAFT.

Adding insulation now would likely help her with future cleaning as that uninsulated liner in her big exterior chimney is pr
obably gonna condense a lot of creo. luckily it sounds like her wood is pretty good.

Seems some of us still wonder "what`s up"
first... A 5 gallon bucket of insulation quote from earlier thread... Is not much... but a roll of store-bought about the size of 5 gallons is a much larger pile.Enough where I would dread having to reach past my sourround having been removed, and get it all up that relative small opening. How much could really be up there? Use a stick to push it on up?...How long could that stick have been???
those pipes cool seriously fast people...creo is real... finish the job.
I keep seeing a pot of boiling water sending a columne of steam up.. that represents no insulation.. now put a lid on it and that represents your insulation no more steam rising... but the pot temp never changed...I still wonder!

What I don`t wonder about is that...Hampton spent thousands, and more of em, to develope this technology of secondary-burn, wash systems,(i wish i could see past my doors) ect.,ect. to conform to EPA and be competitive with thease cleaner burning fuels and stay in the market... why can`t they answer the simple questions they found answers to long ago?

i just found it hard to believe but i guess it makes sense?? because of a soft block-off plate the stove got warmer??? that is draft it was not enough because too much cold air was cooling the pipes not allowing the stove to really heat up... right? thats the reason?? with a raging fire the stove still shoulda got hot enough to cure it... the heat just goes up the chimney??
so... do to her lack of insulation, it allowed to much cold air down the sides of the pipe in which the pipe wasn't able to get hot enough to "draw up" with any intensity.... i guess ... just trying figure it out

Someone said earilier, the proof was in the pudding....I don't know as much as everyone else about draft and what not, all I can tell you is that with the same wood, and the same burning practices, my house is about 5 degrees (2 floor 1700sq feet) warmer since we put that insulation in. It seems like we were heating the whole masonry chimney, and the insulation helped the heat stay in the firebox. Am I simplifying it too much? Please don't detect sarcasm, I don't actually know, just learning. All I can tell you is my problem is a whole lot better now and that I will be insulating the rest of the chimney as soon as I can figure out what to put in there, so as not to creat a creosote problem. Seems hard to believe that something so simple could have made such a huge difference, but it did! I wasn't even confident it was going to work, but my thermometer in this room says it is 82.2 degrees!!

i hear ya but that was a band aid somewhere in your installation (setup) air was cooling your chimney... maybe your chimney has a crack /hole OR the installer did not seal the top of the chimney where your liner exits...... yes we already know you need to get your liner insulated....
but my point was you did not get enough draft going up.... but you did have roaring fires before, if you remember someone did ask if cold air was coming down the chimney... however, you were not getting enough heat out... i would def suggest the block-off plate as you know but i really think there was/is something not sealed or cracked that your installer missed when first putting in the stove.. in my opinion..... BUT when you get it lined i am sure it will get taken care of... did the installer even check your lintel before he installed the stove? when you get the chimney insulated make sure they thoroughly check out your chimney inside and out ..

 

[SherryAnn]

i hear ya but that was a band aid somewhere in your installation (setup) air was cooling your chimney... maybe your chimney has a crack /hole OR the installer did not seal the top of the chimney where your liner exits...... yes we already know you need to get your liner insulated....
but my point was you did not get enough draft going up.... but you did have roaring fires before, if you remember someone did ask if cold air was coming down the chimney... however, you were not getting enough heat out... i would def suggest the block-off plate as you know but i really think there was/is something not sealed or cracked that your installer missed when first putting in the stove.. in my opinion..... BUT when you get it lined i am sure it will get taken care of... did the installer even check your lintel before he installed the stove? when you get the chimney insulated make sure they thoroughly check out your chimney inside and out ..

I need to get someone other than my current installer here to have a good look. Do you think it is wise to do this now, or can I wait until Spring? I'd of course rather wait until spring. We are in so much cash for this already.......... I guess the best way to go is to post a new thread (this one IS a bit long!) asking if anyone has a great installer in RI, unless of course any of you reading this has an excellent installer in RI. I should also go back to my inspection report from when we moved here five years ago, he was very thorough, took 8 hours to inspect. Any thoughts as to why I can't keep the house as warm when it's windy?

 

[iceman]

i hear ya but that was a band aid somewhere in your installation (setup) air was cooling your chimney... maybe your chimney has a crack /hole OR the installer did not seal the top of the chimney where your liner exits...... yes we already know you need to get your liner insulated....
but my point was you did not get enough draft going up.... but you did have roaring fires before, if you remember someone did ask if cold air was coming down the chimney... however, you were not getting enough heat out... i would def suggest the block-off plate as you know but i really think there was/is something not sealed or cracked that your installer missed when first putting in the stove.. in my opinion..... BUT when you get it lined i am sure it will get taken care of... did the installer even check your lintel before he installed the stove? when you get the chimney insulated make sure they thoroughly check out your chimney inside and out ..

I need to get someone other than my current installer here to have a good look. Do you think it is wise to do this now, or can I wait until Spring? I'd of course rather wait until spring. We are in so much cash for this already.......... I guess the best way to go is to post a new thread (this one IS a bit long!) asking if anyone has a great installer in RI, unless of course any of you reading this has an excellent installer in RI. I should also go back to my inspection report from when we moved here five years ago, he was very thorough, took 8 hours to inspect. Any thoughts as to why I can't keep the house as warm when it's windy?

as we are in feb i would wait till spring but get it checked out.....
the wind is having an effect on the draft, you had a bad draft problem before.. it is common for some people to have issues when its windy and some actually get better performance when its windy