The Dark Side
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BG... If my stove gets fixed once and for all, there will not only be single malt... the streets will be lined with gossamered maidens strewing petals, with dancing elephants, and with a chorus of angels blessing him on his onward journey...
ailanthus
Feeling the Heat
Could the 2ndary manifold be seated incorrectly? There's thin gasketing there too that would be very easy to wrinkle or be in the wrong position. Also you had the top off, so I assume you would have noticed if there was excess soot/ash blocking the manifold holes on that side. What about the airwash on the affected side, anyway to tell if that's clear? - something's wonky with the airflow somewhere.
You're correct:
Secondary manifold is lose and is seated incorrectly.. It keeps moving out of place.. Needs 4 bolts (which are missing) to hold it in place.
Thin gasketting you mention is also missing.
Can't think that the manifold holes are blocked, as they sometimes work...
I have tried to look at the air wash on the left, but it's hard to see anything.
I discovered what might be the issues fairly recently after much trawling of the Internet and peering into the stove till my eyes are dry. I have told the dealers what I have discovered. Not sure why they feel they need to call a Jotul rep in to fix this, but they have and it can only be a good thing from my POV. The dealers/installers have been inept from day 1.. I am fed up with it and would like the professionals to triage and fix the problem now... I have been trying for months to figure it out and don't see why it should be left to me whilst the stove and the installation are both under warranty. I reckon it's the dealers/Jotul's obligation to me to give me a stove and a set up that works, which it never properly has since installation in Dec '13.
Ok. Update...
So the dealer who installed my stove and the Jotul rep came round last Wednesday. I was pretty disappointed in that they seemed disinterested in really examining the stove to see what could be causing the problem. They said they couldn't imagine that the missing bolts and gasket could be causing such an uneven burn, but they would replace them anyway and then I should see how it goes and let the dealer know.
The 'expert Jotul guy' held the flashlight expertly, whilst the dealer put in some gasket and the missing two bolts on the front. He didn't add the two missing back ones... Why I do not know. He said he would send someone round 'soon' to do that.
Then the dealer lit the stove - and I have to say he did so like someone who has never lit a stove before in his life!! He piled in the kindling and, as soon as the firelighter was lit, he immediately threw pretty large splits right on top of the as yet unlit kindling. The fire died and he fiddled around with it for a while till it smouldered. Expert Jotul man looked on in silence, you couldn't make this up.
Finally the fire got going - dealer opened the ash pan door to accomplish this!! They stared at it for a while then left.
Dealer did not call the next day, as promised, to see how it was going. He still hasn't called. At least living with the stove gave me a little time to see if there has been any improvement.... I think that the problem is slightly reduced. It is still there though. So I continued to think about what could be causing it....
A couple of days ago, I came to notice that the uneven burn is exacerbated if and when there is a wind causing a stronger than usual updraft.. and I have always got a strong updraft anyway... all of the time.. It's just made worse when we have winds here, which happens a lot.. And when they come, the secondaries also go crazy..
But I noticed the other day that everything was burning beautifully. Why? Becuase there was no breeze at all outside (unusual here) and the stove had been out overnight, so the flue was cool - so way less draft than usual. So... for the last few days I have been looking at the different-looking secondaries on the rear left, which of course is right where the secondary air comes in the back.. and they are often so strong just there that they are invisible - if that makes sense. I thought they weren't there, but the air is so strong it sometimes blows them out, as it were. I think it is the strong secondary air intake, often exacerbated by the strong updraft of the flue, that it causes a circular flow of air in a clockwise direction, starting where the secondary air rushes in too hard. I think that the too strong secondary air intake pulls air from that rear left corner which is right behind where it comes in.
Sooooo...... All of those thoughts led me to peer down the back of the stove this morning, to take a look at the area where the secondary inlet is. I will confess I was considering blocking it off just a little, à la 'Florida Bungalow' article - just experimentally, to see if it reduces the weird burn problem. And.... When I peer there.... what do I see.....? The secondary inlet's cover is not in place. It is hanging ineffectually on the very end of its screw, which is unscrewed by almost all, of its 3" or more length.
My hands are just about small enough to be able to squeeze them between the rear heat sheild and the back of the stove (it's not lit!
I can just touch the inlet cover, it is swinging around loosely on that screw, serving no purpose. The only reason it hasn't fallen away is becuase it is a leaning against the heat sheild.
I am now feeling as though my theory is possibly being proven.. That the over-strong flow of air through the secondary inlet, unchecked - I now realise - by the out of place inlet cover, is setting up a swirling movement of air within the fire box that moves in a clockwise direction ending in the rear-left corner, by which time insufficient air remains in that area to effect any burn.
What do you think? Is this a possibility?
Ok... Back to the dealers... I'm on the war path: this is the final straw in a year long saga of ineptitude of mythic proportions, made all the worse by the fact that I am having the do all this work when surely there must be someone out there, somehwere... Who knows what they are doing and who is able to properly triage and fix my stove.
So the dealer who installed my stove and the Jotul rep came round last Wednesday. I was pretty disappointed in that they seemed disinterested in really examining the stove to see what could be causing the problem. They said they couldn't imagine that the missing bolts and gasket could be causing such an uneven burn, but they would replace them anyway and then I should see how it goes and let the dealer know.
The 'expert Jotul guy' held the flashlight expertly, whilst the dealer put in some gasket and the missing two bolts on the front. He didn't add the two missing back ones... Why I do not know. He said he would send someone round 'soon' to do that.
Then the dealer lit the stove - and I have to say he did so like someone who has never lit a stove before in his life!! He piled in the kindling and, as soon as the firelighter was lit, he immediately threw pretty large splits right on top of the as yet unlit kindling. The fire died and he fiddled around with it for a while till it smouldered. Expert Jotul man looked on in silence, you couldn't make this up.
Finally the fire got going - dealer opened the ash pan door to accomplish this!! They stared at it for a while then left.
Dealer did not call the next day, as promised, to see how it was going. He still hasn't called. At least living with the stove gave me a little time to see if there has been any improvement.... I think that the problem is slightly reduced. It is still there though. So I continued to think about what could be causing it....
A couple of days ago, I came to notice that the uneven burn is exacerbated if and when there is a wind causing a stronger than usual updraft.. and I have always got a strong updraft anyway... all of the time.. It's just made worse when we have winds here, which happens a lot.. And when they come, the secondaries also go crazy..
But I noticed the other day that everything was burning beautifully. Why? Becuase there was no breeze at all outside (unusual here) and the stove had been out overnight, so the flue was cool - so way less draft than usual. So... for the last few days I have been looking at the different-looking secondaries on the rear left, which of course is right where the secondary air comes in the back.. and they are often so strong just there that they are invisible - if that makes sense. I thought they weren't there, but the air is so strong it sometimes blows them out, as it were. I think it is the strong secondary air intake, often exacerbated by the strong updraft of the flue, that it causes a circular flow of air in a clockwise direction, starting where the secondary air rushes in too hard. I think that the too strong secondary air intake pulls air from that rear left corner which is right behind where it comes in.
Sooooo...... All of those thoughts led me to peer down the back of the stove this morning, to take a look at the area where the secondary inlet is. I will confess I was considering blocking it off just a little, à la 'Florida Bungalow' article - just experimentally, to see if it reduces the weird burn problem. And.... When I peer there.... what do I see.....? The secondary inlet's cover is not in place. It is hanging ineffectually on the very end of its screw, which is unscrewed by almost all, of its 3" or more length.
My hands are just about small enough to be able to squeeze them between the rear heat sheild and the back of the stove (it's not lit!
I can just touch the inlet cover, it is swinging around loosely on that screw, serving no purpose. The only reason it hasn't fallen away is becuase it is a leaning against the heat sheild.I am now feeling as though my theory is possibly being proven.. That the over-strong flow of air through the secondary inlet, unchecked - I now realise - by the out of place inlet cover, is setting up a swirling movement of air within the fire box that moves in a clockwise direction ending in the rear-left corner, by which time insufficient air remains in that area to effect any burn.
What do you think? Is this a possibility?
Ok... Back to the dealers... I'm on the war path: this is the final straw in a year long saga of ineptitude of mythic proportions, made all the worse by the fact that I am having the do all this work when surely there must be someone out there, somehwere... Who knows what they are doing and who is able to properly triage and fix my stove.
It sounds like someone was either asleep assembling this stove or it was taken apart at some time. Get the secondary cover and the two missing bolts back in place. If you still find strong wind affecting the burn then consider replacing the cap with one designed for high winds.
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I can't see till I get properly behind the stove, but I'm wondering if the bolt that holds the inlet cover in place is actually also one of the missing bolts the on the back of the burn plate inside the stove.. in other words, it's one of the four missing bolts - and it serves this dual purpose!
If that is the case, I have lost faith in The Jotul man as well as the dealers, as the compromise of the inlet cover should have been his first thought upon seeing the lamentable lack of bolts on my burn plate.
Maybe my stove was completed the day before some Norwegian national holiday!
Wahooad, if you're around... I wonder if it might be worth you taking a wee keek at your own secondary inlet cover... As it was your train of thought about the airflow patterns in the stove that got me thinking and peering and discovering...
If that is the case, I have lost faith in The Jotul man as well as the dealers, as the compromise of the inlet cover should have been his first thought upon seeing the lamentable lack of bolts on my burn plate.
Maybe my stove was completed the day before some Norwegian national holiday!
Wahooad, if you're around... I wonder if it might be worth you taking a wee keek at your own secondary inlet cover... As it was your train of thought about the airflow patterns in the stove that got me thinking and peering and discovering...
Some brand specific caps are better than others. Selkirk's cap has a wind shield for example that helps. Excel makes one with even a wider shield. There is also an expensive US made cap called the Vacu-Stack that is designed to address tricky wind problems. Another solution is a rotating wind cowl cap that has a vane on it to point it away from the wind.
http://www.amazon.com/Selkirk-Round...24?s=furniture&ie=UTF8&qid=1422820976&sr=1-24
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneycaps.com/ICP_pages/products1.html)
more info:
http://www.woodheat.org/wind-chimney.html
http://www.amazon.com/Selkirk-Round...24?s=furniture&ie=UTF8&qid=1422820976&sr=1-24
(broken link removed to http://www.chimneycaps.com/ICP_pages/products1.html)
more info:
http://www.woodheat.org/wind-chimney.html
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Thanks for that BeGreen. I'll see what versions of those caps we have available over here. I'll also contact OTHER dealers and see what they have available.
But first I'll see how the stove behaves once it's been put together.. I feel as though I've had to learn three different stoves already this year, becuase each set of fixes has made it behave entirely differently than before. I really hope that this rear air inlet cover makes a big difference to the weird burn. Hope springs eternal in the stover's breast...
But first I'll see how the stove behaves once it's been put together.. I feel as though I've had to learn three different stoves already this year, becuase each set of fixes has made it behave entirely differently than before. I really hope that this rear air inlet cover makes a big difference to the weird burn. Hope springs eternal in the stover's breast...
Hi
I just saw this thread. My stove burns perfectly and does have all 4 bolts in place. I will check the gasket when the fire dies down. In this photo it looks a little stronger on the right but it's just a trick of the light. My little stove has been perfect for the additional heat I need!
![[Hearth.com] The Dark Side](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/152/152385-5619b739c437f28216ac16f9d33124bf.jpg?hash=wmZi85oD9L "[Hearth.com] The Dark Side")
I just saw this thread. My stove burns perfectly and does have all 4 bolts in place. I will check the gasket when the fire dies down. In this photo it looks a little stronger on the right but it's just a trick of the light. My little stove has been perfect for the additional heat I need!
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Glad to hear you have all your working parts!
AND.... So do I now
Finally!! I gave up on the dealers who, two weeks after half fixing the job, never came back and have not been in touch to say why. I found someone else and they were brilliant. I now have all four secondary manifold bolts in place as well as being in 'gasket heaven' all round the inside of the box. The rear secondary intake cover is firmly bolted in place and the stove feels brand new to burn. What a difference. i will send the bill from the fixers to the original dealer/installers, who hold my warranty.
I will just add that there is still a definite difference between the burn on the left and right sides of the stove.. But so much better than before and I can live with that. I am resigned to thinking it must be a slight 'feature' inherent to some F3s. It seems, now the stove is intact, to be relatively controllable if I am very, very gradual in how i close down the primary air after a reload... Too closed off too soon and the right hand burn is favoured for some reason.
brad wilton
Feeling the Heat
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