Texas Power Shortage

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So in Texas when prices hit like $9k a mwh that is passed on directly to rate payers?

Here in New England during high demand in summer prices will skyrocket as well from like $100 mwh to $1k. I have never heard of anyone paying that rate. Your price is the same year round.

I think it's too broad of a brush just to refer to Texas as a monolith. It's a huge state with lots of power companies. With our particular power company (the only choice we have in our area), we pay a single base rate for every kilowatt hour all year, but in the hottest summer months there is an additional peak charge applied to any usage over 600 kWh. It is not a variable cost based on the cost of the energy. It's an additional amount (maybe around 2 cents) for each kilowatt hour. This is obviously very different from the variable rate plans that are being discussed in the media right now.

We have a different company that supplies natural gas, and the rates are the opposite. The peak applies in winter.

At this point I'm doubly glad we managed to have significant solar power installed last summer. The power company hasn't raised rates in a good number of years. I expect that to change.
 
I have lived in southern Georgia twice, and I've never seen a water heater in an attic... (HVAC, yes.) Is it really common there?

Forget cold temperature, what happens when the tank rusts out, or the expansion tank is insufficient? Do they install them on shower pans and run a drain line?

If you don't have it contained and drained, common sense says that you will eventually get a $10,000 repair and mold remediation bill from a $300 appliance just due to normal water heater life cycle issues.

Jetsam, that was my exact reaction to water heaters when I started house shopping in this area. Yes, it's (shockingly) common, and yes, they do have drain pans and drain pipes that run to the outside of the house. People need to be sure to inspect their water heaters (and HVAC drains and pans). We also have a special (more expensive) rider on our insurance policy about water damage. Homeowner's insurance is definitely expensive down here.

I hope that these practices are less common nowadays than they were twenty and thirty years ago, but I really have no idea whether that is the case at all.
 
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Here is how crazy we were down here in Texas. I am back home after working for over a week at the hotel due to power and water outages at our house. That morning of the 14th when it was in the teens and half of the city of around 30,000 was out of power, I received a phone call.

The man had no heat, no lights, no water, a ten month old son. He demanded a room at the promised "Facebook Rate." There was no Facebook Discount but we were allowing pets. His wife who was the second caller, made it clear it was our fault for not letting them in during a power outage and not having a kitchenette to heat formula. Our hotel had about ten rooms left and we were the almost life and death refuge from the winter storm.

It is somewhere between stupid and Child Protective Services level intervention to hear a dad threaten you because you won't hold a room for him until the manager confirms the half price discount. People like this probably stayed on the Titanic because they didn't want to sit with the third class riff-Raff. Oh, the pipes thawed out fine, as far as we can tell.
 
The guy is a jerk. I give your hotel credit for sticking with regular prices. There was some serious price gouging reported at some hotels and motels.
 
Long Island is an area of New York. So in theory there's little in the way of regulation, but it's an island, and the local deregulated operator is also a complete monopoly... you cannot choose between power companies in any way, shape, or form.

Also, as is traditional for local enterprises, it is chummy with the highly corrupt local politicians, and as such charges astounding rates and still "loses" money every year.

If you're thinking that I am an embittered local exaggerating for dramatic effect... well, here is a screenshot showing their understanding of what the purpose of their business is (from their 2020 SEC filing):


View attachment 275228

In English: "We take huge losses so that our highly dubious personal investments don't lose money, and use that money to buy politicians to prop up the utility business that we just looted, so the taxpayers can have rates double the national average AND pay for our thievery in their tax bills. Every time this generates outrage we will shout bankruptcy and sell out to a different LLC and probably not even have to rearrange our pencil drawers, let alone move offices.")
Wow Jetsam, you and I need to sit down over a coffee for a Long Island history lesson,... I'll buy.

But that's for another thread, now the matter at hand:
You responded to a well written post from PeakBagger, but his positioning of Ronald Reagan is off by about 20 years. The push to deregulate the US electricity sector was under the final years of the Clinton administration, and the lead flag carrier was Kenny Lay, CEO of Enron, who was a hugh backer of Bush the Junior. I cringed every time I saw GW walk down the air-stairs from the Enron Boeing 737 during the election campaign.

So the theory of deregulation, and the goal of saving consumers money in their electric rates, was that all the local Utilities needed to be forced to give up their ownership in generating/power stations. Thus allowing the Generators to independently compete against each other in an Energy Market Place, thereby allowing private Energy Marketers (ie middlemen) to purchase and resell this power to consumers at lower costs. The Marketers would sign up consumers promising lower prices, and sometimes higher prices because their electricity was originating from clean green sources (wind turbines and solar farms). The local Utilities would remain fully regulated and would be the cashiers/deliverers for the Marketers, but would be acting as a basic minimal cost pass-thru. Therefore consumers could feel safe because the Generators would send the electricity directly to the Consumers via the same poles & wires as before.

Naturally the govt needed a safety net, so they designated the local Utilities as the "provider of last resort" if the Consumer didn't want to participate in the "free" market. Most Utilities in NY State just buy power in the market and pass it along with minimal markup, but adjust it 2-4 times a year.

I don't know if the efforts has resulted in lower rates. I do know that when the Utilities were force to sell their power plants, they took the windfall, formed subsidiaries, and just bought power stations outside their service territory. So it turned into a giant churn of power plant ownership. The company you posted "PSEG POWER" is such a subsidiary. They bought power plants in Conn, and a bunch of other locations. They do not sell power to customers in PSEG-NJ or to PSEG-LI service territory.

Unfortunately for the folks in Texas (home of Enron), they were all in and drank the cool-aid of deregulation. When the Market got tight for available power the market price went thru the roof. The ones who's power was rationed (turned off) may be the lucky ones, if they had a whole house generator and could keep the heat on.

And just for example, Texas had a price cap of $9000 per Megawatthour (Mwh). Most states which deregulated have price caps in place also. I think NY ISO market price cap is $1000 per Mwh. But NYISO has market circuit breakers which allow them to "freeze market prices" during a crisis, like a Blackout. It's a dangerous financial place to play for saving 10-20 bucks a month on your electric bill.

PS: Long Island NY is not a deregulated market because LIPA is a quasi govt agency who owns the service territory. And everyone knows the Govt does not like to compete in a market. ;-)
 
I feel like the power generation industry is very unnecessarily convoluted and complicated.
 
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Here in NY just south of Albany we get our electricity bills from Central Hudson (CH) now owned by a Canada firm. Electric bills have 3 parts for residential houses. Part 1 - Mandatory monthly flat fee of $19.50 a month. This was $24 a month a few years ago.
Part 2 is cost to deliver the electricity to your house. Part 3 is cost of energy supply to generate electricity. In 2018 , Part 2 and Part 3 costs were close to even. Now in Part 2 is signficantly higher that part 3. I am looking at one recent bill where Part 2 cost of delivery is double the cost of Part 3 cost energy supply to generate the electricity. Why CH do this you may ask? Well the private solar farms and wind farms can only compete to reduce the cost of Part 3 energy supply. CH does not have to compete with other companies for Part 2 the cost to deliver the electricity. So CH just made Part 3 competition part a smaller part of the pie.

On the plus side CH total cost of about 15 cents per Kwh (part 2 and part 3) has not changed much in the last 3 years.
 
I read every post and it all makes sense to me with some very good writing as well. So I say God Bless not only Texas like Grizzerbear wrote but God Bless the Whole U.S. as well because I feel we have some real problems coming in the future and you must remember I am a worry wort and that's why I am trying to hook up the worse looking gravity fed heater in the world--just to be warm. I need all the help that I can get from you very very smart people but do not know enough to ask too many questions right now. But God Bless Us All..
 
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Our power rates are reasonable. Dont know they manage that cuz they pay their employees even maintenance people the salary of a medical doctor.
 
Our power rates are reasonable. Dont know they manage that cuz they pay their employees even maintenance people the salary of a medical doctor.
Makes you consider that perhaps everyone is underpaid.
 
Makes you consider that perhaps everyone is underpaid.
Or maybe the wrong people are overpaid and the wrong people are underpaid. One lesson from the pandemic... the people society depends on the most (essential works) do not get paid for the value of their work to society. People are paid based on the amount of money they make for themselves or someone else. Because a guy can throw a football really well (don't get me wrong, I am a huge sports fan) he makes millions makes but a man or woman that is responsible for the safety of our society and the enforcement of its laws starts out at $30,000 a year in my area is an issue. I am a teacher so I am biased.
 
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Our power rates are reasonable. Dont know they manage that cuz they pay their employees even maintenance people the salary of a medical doctor.

My neighbor is a lineman for the Northeast Electric utility Eversource. He makes $52 an hour. During storm duty he does 16 hour shifts at double time. He said he cleared 200k with all the overtime and out of state storms last year. When he gets sent to Maine often he said he is on the clock the second he gets in the truck. He said they also are on the clock even sleeping in the hotel.
 
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Makes you consider that perhaps everyone is underpaid.
Market forces set the value of your time and skill level but also are affected by things like unions and utilities which are monopolies. Govt can try to force or mandate a wage but it dont end well. If everyone is under paid then no one is underpaid. Iv seen plenty of business owners make less than their employees at times. Forcing mom and pop shops into same wage scale as amazon dont make sense either. Mexico muddies the water as well ,they also have a min wage ,its 50c hr.
 
I am a teacher so I am biased.
My wife works with some teachers at her job at a local Dept store,. Apparently they have so much free time in my area they can work 2 full time jobs. Im sure its different in different areas.
 
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My neighbor is a lineman for the Northeast Electric utility Eversource. He makes $52 an hour. During storm duty he does 16 hour shifts at double time. He said he cleared 200k with all the overtime and out of state storms last year. When he gets sent to Maine often he said he is on the clock the second he gets in the truck. He said they also are on the clock even sleeping in the hotel.
I also know some linemen...they also used to get paid 24/7 when they went out on emergency assistance like that, but they said they lost this on the last contract due to it not being the "norm" longer...less and less employers still do that.
However, I would gladly pay these guys their hourly rate 24/7 to be willing to be out in the middle of the night during a nasty storm trying to get our power back on, (as would most I suspect) as compared to these "professional athletes" getting millions to chase a little ball around... :rolleyes:
Because a guy can throw a football really well (don't get me wrong, I am a huge sports fan) he makes millions makes but a man or woman that is responsible for the safety of our society and the enforcement of its laws starts out at $30,000 a year in my area is an issue
The pay scale is backwards IMO...teachers (at least the ones willing to work) first responders, utility techs that are 24/7 on call, (and lots of other important jobs that are underappreciated) are the ones that should be making millions, not these little boys out there playing with their balls...
 
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Most utility workers....at least around here... have excellent pension plans/retirements and great health care. Around here if your lucky enough to know someone that will get you hired on at a utility you jump at the opportunity.

As far as teachers.....again around here.....I feel they aren't underpaid.. 9 months a year with countless holidays, a dang good retirement. My kids are in a school district that has class 4 days a week and many others are the same in Missouri. My second daughter is 5 and a half and has struggled with learning to read to the extent that her teacher notified us she could be held back if she doesn't progress by the end of the year. They send homework home with the kids designed for the parents to teach and instruct them on lessons. Obviously I have no problem with helping my own child with things she struggles with but the methods they are using to teach are completely different from the days when I was in school....especially basic math.....which aren't accepted. Long story short....a few nights with my daughter on her "sight words", and the teacher said she was amazed at the improvement. No s**t, your welcome for doing your job for ya. It's more of a problem with how public schools are structured here to me. Theirs too many kids per classroom that if a kid struggles with something they are screwed.
 
Most utility workers....at least around here... have excellent pension plans/retirements and great health care. Around here if your lucky enough to know someone that will get you hired on at a utility you jump at the opportunity.

As far as teachers.....again around here.....I feel they aren't underpaid.. 9 months a year with countless holidays, a dang good retirement. My kids are in a school district that has class 4 days a week and many others are the same in Missouri. My second daughter is 5 and a half and has struggled with learning to read to the extent that her teacher notified us she could be held back if she doesn't progress by the end of the year. They send homework home with the kids designed for the parents to teach and instruct them on lessons. Obviously I have no problem with helping my own child with things she struggles with but the methods they are using to teach are completely different from the days when I was in school....especially basic math.....which aren't accepted. Long story short....a few nights with my daughter on her "sight words", and the teacher said she was amazed at the improvement. No s**t, your welcome for doing your job for ya. It's more of a problem with how public schools are structured here to me. Theirs too many kids per classroom that if a kid struggles with something they are screwed.
I would certainly say the teachers are underpaid if there are too many kids per student. Generally teachers work on those countless holidays and through a lot of the summer break as well. Most teachers have to spend their own money for classroom supplies. These are people who raise your children all day and also have to teach them something on top of that. Teachers don't have an easy job and are 100% under paid.


When I say everyone is underpaid, I mean everyone in the working class. The top 20% of income earners are overpaid and hold 80% of all the wealth. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos could have paid every single employee a $100k bonus in 2020 and still maintained 2019 profits, he is not among the underpaid.
 
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I would certainly say the teachers are underpaid if there are too many kids per student. Generally teachers work on those countless holidays and through a lot of the summer break as well. Most teachers have to spend their own money for classroom supplies. These are people who raise your children all day and also have to teach them something on top of that. Teachers don't have an easy job and are 100% under paid.


When I say everyone is underpaid, I mean everyone in the working class. The top 20% of income earners are overpaid and hold 80% of all the wealth. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos could have paid every single employee a $100k bonus in 2020 and still maintained 2019 profits, he is not among the underpaid.

We pay for all our child school supplies from crayons, glue, paper, colored pencils, pencils, erasers, you name it. We get monthly lists of supplies needed for our child. Maybe it's different in maine. I'm sure the teachers pay for their own supplies and maybe the activity/study papers but she ain't paying for our child's own personal supplies. Maybe the teachers in Maine are more generous. I guess I think a little differently but certainly can't be persuaded to believe my daughter's teacher is overpaid.To me too many tax dollars and federal funding are wasted. Too much money spent on sports and other after school activities that benefit a small majority of kids when they could be directed towards all of our kids getting a better education. As far as Jeff Bezos goes schools are ran much the same way.....like a business where the superintendent, principals, and vice principals are overpaid and a school board full of folks that probably couldn't balance a checkbook let alone a put forth a smart school budget. The money is there. What I do believe is it cost too much for a person to have gone to school to be a teacher. That's really another part of the problem.