I know products from American companies are in demand elsewhere. But are they American products? I know we export lots of agricultural goods but after the tariffs that has dropped off and other countries are ramping up production to take our places. As far as apple and clothing yes they may be from American companies but probably not American made.
Taxing and tariffs
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Import this import that, final assembly might be here. all about the bottom line in the corporate world. quality has gone out the door in a front end loader made in china.
In my frequent travels to asia in the last 30 yrs iv noticed that most people iv encountered consider anything american made to be a premium brand. It usually carries a premium price as well due to the 100% tarrif loaded into the price. I encountered the exact same thing in Costa Rica where there is also a 100% tarrif on imported goods. Someone should tell these countries that tariffs don't work cuz they sure seem to luv em.
Isn't there a Costco in San Jose, Costa Rica? Is everything US made 100% more than in the states?
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I have to disagree with you on this, blades. Manufacturers can only afford to produce what people want to buy. Lawn tractors became lighter and cheaper after the 1960's, because customers favored buying the cheaper garbage over the more expensive options. There's usually a niche market for the quality item, but as more customers favor the cheaper option, the cost of producing the quality item in smaller volumes becomes even higher. Nothing new, economics 201.
But I'd argue that the functional quality of consumer goods today is phenomenally higher than it was 40 years ago. Yes, things might be lighter, and contain more plastic than metal, but the truth is they usually work better today. Think back to your 1970's or 1980's lawnmower, dishwasher, chainsaw... your 1970's American car?
Also, I am old enough to remember when "made in Japan" meant junk. Today, they make some of the highest quality products in the world. Some folks on this forum are old enough to remember some of the 1940's and 50's machine tool garbage coming out of Germany as absolute junk, not to mention the 1940's East German toys. Today, we see "made in Germany" as a mark of quality. Our kids will likely see the same in China, just give them a few decades.
I had an admitted bias against Chinese-made goods for years. Then, I bought a top-end, heavy duty 1/2" Makita lithium-ion drill. It was pricey, but I had good experience with Makitas and hey, they're made in Japan. (And yes I remember when Sony broke the myth of Made in Japan = junk) It was only after I had the Makita for a few weeks that I noticed the Made in China sticker. I was pretty upset for a bit, but then I built our woodshed, with lots of drilling and screwing and then our greenhouse. The drill turned out to be a real workhorse. It's still going fine after 8 yrs of steady use. China can make crap or they can make very good stuff. It all depends on what the customer wants and is willing to pay for.
When i was there(its been awhile) anything US was a hot commodity. An Imported 25k car was 50k. The govt does this to protect domestic production and turn a nice profit on the rich who will buy anything at any price. I remember Levis jeans being pretty pricey. Funny though US drug companies sell their drugs way below US price abroad. I could get some things that were $60 to $70 for like $2, like my prescription eye drops. I would think costco would source a lot of its products locally if they have a store there.
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Lots of junk still coming out of china. They can make higher quality goods if the demand is there and the customer is willing to pay.
Given the choice id prefer made in Japan over China. And made in the US over either.
Agreed. Point being that the Chinese can make a good product. The iPhone is a testament to that.
Ok Ashful I give in . my only comment is you get what you pay for 90% of the time. I do remember the Japan items, and admittedly there was still a lot of less than nice thoughts about Japan in the 60's. The turn around from the late 50's to mid 60's as to equipment out of Japan was nothing short of fantastic- driven by the advent of solid state components and the simply amazing electronics developments that took place in a span of less than 10 years and we were not even into the computer craze as such at that time. But that is another story unto itself. I was still learning the old iron ( home grown) when the first punch tape driven machines became available. about 1970 we got a brand new German 16 x60 lathe- it was a thing of beauty compared to to the Southbends and Sebastions on the floor. Difficulty was everything about it was in German- no multilingual manuals and of course totally metric (there were those that never did get on board with that- prints always specked in decimal so to me it wasn't that big a deal) There is an art to using old iron, which is fading quickly.
As long as as they can weasel the tech out of the american company by hook or by crook. Whats the chance China developed their own Iphone equiv. without Apple handing it to them, slim to none?. They steal so much from us it surprising we still do any business with them at all. I feel they are NOT our friend .Never have been, never will be. The kind that will stab you in the back at every turn if given the chance. Once they have built up their military just with the interest we pay them($80 million per day) it will be a scary world IMO.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
There are no friends in business. Never have been, never will be.
The Chinese are smart people and hard workers. They can and have developed good tech on their own and have done a soft landing on the moon. In some areas they are polevaulting ahead of us.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/24/...rrc-373-mph-rolling-stock-magnetic-levitation
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/24/...rrc-373-mph-rolling-stock-magnetic-levitation
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Moon landing. That puts them 50 yrs behind us in that area. And no doubt they stole some of the tech for that from us. But as far as openly stealing everything they can from us,and coercing companies to willing give up tech, certainly in that area they are polevaulting ahead of us. And they have been better trade negotiators then us for a long time. I do admire the chinese people individually ,some of our best friends are chinese. Very hard working ,business owners.
the primary problem with chi-com ( not just China) manufacturing is lack of very close supervision- with out that they substitute inferior components to raise their profit margin. Course that goes on stateside as well. Just ask Dell computers about capacitors few years back for one example. One of my customers had a large order of components made in China the prototypes were fine - production items, well I had to re-machine 50% of the order, 25 % were not able to be saved and the last 25% were almost ok but you had to tweak them a bit with hand files. I got some front end parts from a local auto store - made off shore somewhere- diameters were apx 30% less than oem- funny part was I then went and got oem and the price per piece was the same. They were not made stateside either but qc was involved. Both GE and GM have moved quite a bit of R&D to chi-com.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
When I was in grad school, I was the only non-Chinese student in my class in my lab. This is unfortunately typical, American students seem to be more focused on immediate gratification than delayed benefit, or maybe they feel more college loan pressure. Whatever the reason, those dedicated Chinese kids reminded me a lot of my grandparents generation, our “depression generation” or “greatest generation”. They moved half way around the world, worked their asses off, and lived in some pretty deplorable rental housing together... for the chance to get an American advanced degree.
I get the impression that they are working incredibly hard in China, in an environment that is changing so quickly, that few of us can actually wrap our minds around what they’re seeing. One of the guys with which I became close friends went home to visit his family after his first year, and couldn’t even recognize his town, skyscraper foundations had replaced bungalows all over town.
I was always the kid that got thru school too easy, aced exams with no effort, while getting in trouble for never doing my homework. Usually the smartest in the class, until I was dumped in with this batch of kids from China. I went from being the one always helping my classmates thru courses, to needing help to keep up with most of these guys, a humbling adjustment. One was easily the smartest person I have ever met in my life, Einstein-level genius, and more than half of them could run circles around me. We were all working on our Ph.D EE’s in semiconductor physics, the coursework was not light.
You do realize we and every other country steals tech also right?
Sure to some extent,but we shouldnt be rewarding them for it. And allowing it so easily. IMO
I was just thinking the exact same thing. Our chinese friends work their tail off. All kinds of hours under grueling conditions.They are helpful, kind and generous and did put up with a bit of racism when they first got here. I have a lot a respect and admiration for that kind of work ethic as i rarely see it anymore. Just last week i was doing an emergency job with the help of 2 people with that kind of work ethic. Our Ages are 58, 63 and 66. We also know hundreds of Filipinos. Most are professionals ,much younger than i but same great work ethic as our chinese friends.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
It's just the cycle of things, I think. Our depression-era parents and grandparents had it rough. Their space-age kids and gen-X grandkids had it a little easier, and that trend continued thru the millenials. Those Fillipinos and Chinese are seeing the same sort of adversity as our grandparents, and are rising to the challenge. The same may be said for my grandkids. What goes around, comes around.
I agree we shouldn't allow it so easily but we can't act high and mighty on many issues when we are guilty of allot of the things we complain about as well.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
WW2 German rocket technology, for example, which kick-started our own space program.
True, though the foundation work was American. Robert Goddard was testing and developing rockets in the 1910s. He developed and patented a lot of the technology taken for granted today: first multi-stage rocket, first liquid fuel rocket, 3-axis stabilizer, gyroscopes, steerable exhaust, etc.. Most of this work was done without govt. support. In the early 30s, the Germans borrowed heavily on this knowledge and developed it, at first for peaceful use, later for war. Then we imported vonBraun.
I am old enough to remember tax cut Republicans saying if we pass the tax cuts and deregulation, GDP growth will be 4-5%.
The tax cuts couldn't even break 3% growth year over year. The growth looks very much like it was under the Obama years.
![[Hearth.com] Taxing and tariffs](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/245/245989-ee1c1b3a3984f217f6d12de028a45567.jpg?hash=pVHVv54qYw "[Hearth.com] Taxing and tariffs")
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/gdp-growth-fails-to-hit-trumps-3percent-target-in-2018.html
And trillion dollar deficits are back, baby. Except a Democrat is not in the White House so Republicans don't care about deficits anymore.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/24/investing/trillion-dollar-deficit/index.html
The tax cuts couldn't even break 3% growth year over year. The growth looks very much like it was under the Obama years.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/gdp-growth-fails-to-hit-trumps-3percent-target-in-2018.html
And trillion dollar deficits are back, baby. Except a Democrat is not in the White House so Republicans don't care about deficits anymore.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/24/investing/trillion-dollar-deficit/index.html
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