Tales from the woods..

[Nealm66]

The company I worked for had the last pulp and paper company employed crew in New England. They had great safety records, when the company laid them off and sold what little land they had left most went to work for contractors that had to crank out the wood to make a buck. Almost all our former employees got injured within months as they were trained to work in the safe way not the fast way.

I remember when Weyerhaeuser decided the liability was too high to have in house cutters. Two fatalities in one year. Spotted owl hadn’t hit and we inherited a couple of them and I double jacked (ya, that’s what we called it ha ha) with one of them for a while. He was as good as any, I hate to say average because he was an extremely good person. I remember when we were cutting old growth, only a couple guys wore chaps on a crew that averaged about 30 because the ground was so steep and nobody wanted any restrictions on they’re legs when they needed to run for they’re lives. Nobody used ear plugs because there’s a wind sound you can hear when something is falling. I saved 2 or 3 guys lives because of this. I started using chaps when I started working in smaller timber, less danger and it saved my pant legs from the wear. Even started using ear plugs. Never could use eye protection though, not because I didn’t try, just too dangerous . I remember when tennis shoes first started becoming cork shoes, yup , buy yourself a brand new pair of tenny’s and have the bottoms corked. I have a pair of hiking shoes now that hold up better ha ha. Glad those days are over

 

[SpaceBus]

My limbing saw gets quite a bit of work prepping spruce and fir logs for my mill. I use the saw more than a typical firewooder.

 

[MoDoug]

Nope. Sorry if confusing. There’s a line on both sides of a saw. These are used for aiming when you make an undercut. They are not always accurate and it can make a difference with the bar shape.

I have been using that line to measure my cuts at about 19", never realized it had an alternative purpose. LOL I had a chance to use it today on an oak about 50 feet high and about 13 inches in diameter. I wanted to drop it right in line with the picnic table in the background. Using the lines, it actually worked. It's amazing what we don't know, till we know!

 

[Nealm66]

That’s awesome. There’s a billion things I take for granted after grinding trees down so many years. It feels good to be able to help and share some tricks and safety habits.

 

[64IMPALA]

MoDoug -

If I can make a comment on your felling... Don't make your backcut at an angle like you have on your pics... It puts the hinge wood in shear instead of compression and can cause the hinge to fail, resulting in a uncontrolled drop. Highly recommend a book called "to fell a tree" they go extensively into why not to do angled back cuts...

 

[Nealm66]

Hmm, never heard that before. A lot of old timers would fall little trees like that because they’re bodies didn’t like to bend over. Amazingly accurate too! Problem with them is if you land a big pumpkin on top of them it would split them like a cedar rail. You can spot that white wood in the fell and bucked from a loooong ways off. Better get some branches and cover it up! Ha ha. Thing about your stump is to try and level it up to make it look pretty, don’t go so deep, come up from the bottom with your angle on your face ( make a smile) and clean it out( you left a kicker)

 

[Nealm66]

I will say if part of your back cut is lower and the other side is even ,or higher ,by a couple inches or more, the low side will pull harder, it works kinda like a Dunbar, which is a vertical slice ath the edge of the undercut. This isn’t something that works on a tree here or there, it’s a semi common practice if you’re cutting in a strip where you have a feel of how well the hinge wood is holding. Not something I would recommend in a tree here or there scenario but it doesn’t hurt anything if your just interested to see how it works.Not sure if there’s another name for it, just what we called it. It basically allows the hinge to move instead of breaking like styrofoam.

 

[Nealm66]

Cleaning out the little kickers is a lot harder when the second cut is out of the log instead of the stump. Having it out of the stump also gives the tree something to push off of when your falling it through other trees and helps keep the buttfrom coming back. Also helps to have the back cut above the undercut to create a lip. These things become very important when topping trees throu other trees

 

[Zack R]

One thing I’ve noticed is a lot of folks making undercuts with the angled part coming down . Can’t remember if that’s called a humbolt or siginaw. The forest circus and the state all require the angle coming up from the stump which supposedly doesn’t waist any wood from the log. I find it a lot more difficult cleaning my undercut if I’m trying to work on the top cut. With the undercut coming out of the stump it’s very easy working on the bottom cut. Not sure why people do the top cut thing or if they just haven’t tried the other. Like everything, there’s a little bit to get used to but way easier once it’s learned

Interesting you mentioned this. I'm new to felling trees (3 years) for firewood and I've found that the Humboldt undercut has been the easiest/safest option for me. For the face cut I start with a level cut, sighting the saw with the handle in the proper direction, then using the felling dogs to make the bottom cut meet up cleanly with the top cut. Once the face cut is clean I start on the back cut, tap a wedge in once the bar goes in and always leave plenty of hinge. More often than not I'll tap the wedge to initiate the fall vs pushing the saw further into the hinge. Thus far the biggest tree I've taken down is a ~120' tall standing dead ponderosa pine, ~26" diameter, using my Husqvarna 365 Special and a 20" bar.

I really enjoy learning new things from folks like yourself on the forum. Thanks again for all of the first hand experience.

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[Nealm66]

I know some people have trouble getting a wide face but it’s ok to angle down a little with the top/first cut if a wider face is desired

 

[Nealm66]

Interesting you mentioned this. I'm new to felling trees (3 years) for firewood and I've found that the Humboldt undercut has been the easiest/safest option for me. For the face cut I start with a level cut, sighting the saw with the handle in the proper direction, then using the felling dogs to make the bottom cut meet up cleanly with the top cut. Once the face cut is clean I start on the back cut, tap a wedge in once the bar goes in and always leave plenty of hinge. More often than not I'll tap the wedge to initiate the fall vs pushing the saw further into the hinge. Thus far the biggest tree I've taken down is a ~120' tall standing dead ponderosa pine, ~26" diameter, using my Husqvarna 365 Special and a 20" bar.

I really enjoy learning new things from folks like yourself on the forum. Thanks again for all of the first hand experience.

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Hoping to get a minute to watch the video ( at work today) is that you in the video?

 

[64IMPALA]

If you'd like to see one of the best tree dropping tutorials, check out Guilty by Treeson on youtube. I am not affiliated with them in any way. They go into the different types of notches (humbolt, standard face etc) and the advantages/disadvantages of each. Very detailed.

Talking about face notches, the face notch in the above pictures is WAY to deep into the tree. The face notch should only be about 80% of the diameter of the tree. This is a lot shallower than people think. The face notch should be as level as possible. Angling the corner of the face notch off of level (where the top cut/bottom cut intersect) changes the way the hinge is going to function and where the tree is going to land. The back cut should be roughly 1" above the corner of the face cut and should be no closer than 1" behind the corner. There are exceptions to this obviously, but these are good rules of thumb. The back cut should always be level, never at an angle as I mentioned above.

 

[Nealm66]

I’d like to say also that a person never stops learning in the tree cutting industry and I hope I’m not making feel uncomfortable about posting they’re knowledge

 

[Zack R]

Hoping to get a minute to watch the video ( at work today) is that you in the video?

Its definitely not me... its from the BC Faller training series which is really useful for folks to learn from.

 

[Nealm66]

If you'd like to see one of the best tree dropping tutorials, check out Guilty by Treeson on youtube. I am not affiliated with them in any way. They go into the different types of notches (humbolt, standard face etc) and the advantages/disadvantages of each. Very detailed.

Talking about face notches, the face notch in the above pictures is WAY to deep into the tree. The face notch should only be about 80% of the diameter of the tree. This is a lot shallower than people think. The face notch should be as level as possible. Angling the corner of the face notch off of level (where the top cut/bottom cut intersect) changes the way the hinge is going to function and where the tree is going to land. The back cut should be roughly 1" above the corner of the face cut and should be no closer than 1" behind the corner. There are exceptions to this obviously, but these are good rules of thumb. The back cut should always be level, never at an angle as I mentioned above.

I think there’s some good safety things behind a lot of that. But if I’m being honest, there’s a lot to learn by grabbing a saw and seeing for yourself. An angled undercut, if the hinge wood completely breaks as it’s leaving the stump will allow the butt to slide off to the low side and make the top go the opposite direction a little bit. Give it a try and see. We used this a lot in certain situations

 

[MoDoug]

MoDoug -

If I can make a comment on your felling... Don't make your backcut at an angle like you have on your pics... It puts the hinge wood in shear instead of compression and can cause the hinge to fail, resulting in a uncontrolled drop. Highly recommend a book called "to fell a tree" they go extensively into why not to do angled back cuts...

I don't mind comments like yours at all, I appreciate it. I'm a work in progress. I wasn't happy with my undercut, my lower cut is angled down, and my undercut overall is way too deep, it's about half way into the diameter of the tree. I misjudged my second cut, it didn't meet my first cut, so I cut deeper. Like I said I appreciate any and all tips. I can hack my way through cutting down a tree (pun not intended), but I prefer to do it the proper way. I'll have to check out the book and read up on back cuts.

 

[MoDoug]

Hmm, never heard that before. A lot of old timers would fall little trees like that because they’re bodies didn’t like to bend over. Amazingly accurate too! Problem with them is if you land a big pumpkin on top of them it would split them like a cedar rail. You can spot that white wood in the fell and bucked from a loooong ways off. Better get some branches and cover it up! Ha ha. Thing about your stump is to try and level it up to make it look pretty, don’t go so deep, come up from the bottom with your angle on your face ( make a smile) and clean it out( you left a kicker)

I'll have to try work on my smile, coming up on the undercut! I didn't want to go so deep on my undercut, but my two lower cuts didn't line up, so I cut deeper, that's also why the kicker. I should have cleaned the kicker out. I'm cutting in a Corps of Engineers campground and I have to leave the stump no higher than 6 inches (their rules), so I do my felling cuts about 20 inches higher, then do the stump before I leave. I'm sure I could be more economical with my cuts. I need to start writing all these tips down, and approach it more methodically, old habits can be hard to break when you're in the field.

 

[Nealm66]

I get the old habit thing for sure,! Try aiming with both cuts, if your undercut falls out before it meets your aim point, re slice to fix. That would be called a Dutchman or a swing cut. Not what you want in that scenario. If you meet your aiming point and the undercut doesn’t drop out give it a wack with your ax. In big trees it’s fairly common to mismatch, not always popping out with a rap from an ax. In this case, face the undercut and bore a vertical and essentially cut your undercut in half. Then drive a wedge in and it all pop the close side out. Then wack the other side out or bore again!

 

[Nealm66]

Here’s a trick. If you loose or break your ax and you need to wedge something, cut yourself a hammer. Find where a limb comes off about a 3-4 inch trunk, slice the limb above 3’ and slice the trunk about 3-4 inches out on both sides = hammer. Then find a limb or top ( limbs work the best) preferably sticking off the ground and slice a wedge out of it. Make it nice and fat on the pound side. I’ve made it through all day numerous times through the years having to do this. Don’t try to use plastic wedge, hammer just splits. Harder wood species work best!

 

[64IMPALA]

Nelm66 - Totally agree with this. The info I posted are what I call overall rules of thumb. You can do a lot a tree steering with how you angle the face cut and the configuration of the hinge wood. However, I would consider those to be "advance" felling techniques and probably not applicable to the average person who drops an occasional tree.

While there is something to be said about grabbing a saw and learning in the field, dropping trees is a hazardous endeavor and if you are just doing trial and error, without some understanding of why you are making a certain cut, bad things can happen.

 

[Nealm66]

Nelm66 - Totally agree with this. The info I posted are what I call overall rules of thumb. You can do a lot a tree steering with how you angle the face cut and the configuration of the hinge wood. However, I would consider those to be "advance" felling techniques and probably not applicable to the average person who drops an occasional tree.

While there is something to be said about grabbing a saw and learning in the field, dropping trees is a hazardous endeavor and if you are just doing trial and error, without some understanding of why you are making a certain cut, bad things can happen.

Yes, my apologies if some things I say are dangerous. I guess I just saw something that wasn’t true and was trying to bring light to it thinking that bringing out the real truth might be better/safer. I’m still pretty clumsy when it comes to this Internet forum stuff and trying not to ruffle feathers. I’ve learned a heck of a lot about wood/pellet stoves , chimneys and draft. I guess I was just trying to re pay with some things I’ve learned. I’ll keep clam and only speak if spoken to and just suck up the knowledge.

 

[andym]

I’ll keep clam and only speak if spoken to and just suck up the knowledge.

You have been spoken to.....now keep the tips and stories coming! Anyone who tries every thing they read online will wind up dead, in the ER, or in jail anyway.

 

[Nealm66]

You have been spoken to.....now keep the tips and stories coming! Anyone who tries every thing they read online will wind up dead, in the ER, or in jail anyway.

Sounds good, I was having fun sharing experiences. Definitely don’t want anybody though so take everything I say with a grain of caution

 

[Nealm66]

Here’s a tip. If you throw a chain and it creates a burr on your driver so that it doesn’t want to ride in the rail and won’t even spin on the bar, loosen the chain to a point where you would never operate it, like hanging down an inch. Then rev up the saw and get it spinning fast and free. Tighten the chain back up and your good to go

 

[Nealm66]

Here’s a safety tip. It’s a good idea to keep some danger ribbon with you if you’re cutting some trees in the woods. If you happen to make a trap ( tree stuck in another tree) and have to leave it for any reason or any similar type situation, you can use the ribbon to ward off any onlookers