Suggestions/Insights for heating with wood in South Texas

[begreen]

If there is a supporting BK dealer in your area then that would be a good option if you can run it on high once in awhile. The thermostatic operation should cover your temperature swings pretty nicely. BK has made some nice improvements in the past several year in the looks dept.. The new Ashford and Sircocco stoves are nice looking stoves.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

It's been several decades since I lived in TX, but here's my thinking. The space heated is about 800 sq ft with high ceilings, so 50% more cubic footage. Texas doesn't get as cold for as long as up north, but when cold weather comes rolling down the plains there is nothing between Texas and Canada. It's not uncommon to see some winter temps in the low 30s or 20s accompanied by strong winds. And folks in Texas that I have known tend to like it on the warmer side when indoors. One doesn't have to run the stove with a full load. The stoves suggested will burn fine on a partial load of fuel if it is in the 40s, but will have some reserve for colder weather. The T5 for example can provide an 8 hr burn on about 6 splits. Or just add a couple splits now and then. Of course there is the smaller T4 too. But one is not going to get an 6hr burn on a 1 cu ft stove. A cat stove would work also if that is available, though with more of a black window if run only on low.

Wow. I didn’t know that you had lived in Texas. I had the privilege of meeting BrotherBart shortly before we moved, and he certainly thought a woodstove in Texas had value.

You are absolutely right about the cold temperatures and the wind. We also have a lot of glass in the house which is nice on a cool sunny day, but the word is that winter is often cloudier around here, and so far that’s what we’ve seen, though I suppose that real winter hasn’t even hit yet.

Both my husband I and want a large enough firebox that we can have overnight burns. Judging from what we’ve seen so far, we think that there will certainly be times we want to keep a fire going for at least the morning hours, if not all day. For that reason we value something that can handle partial filling and still burn efficiently. That was how we handled daytime burning with our Revere in Virginia.

As I mentioned in a post above, we’re trying to figure out whether the pump and glide system is best for our climate or whether low and slow would be advantageous here.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

If there is a supporting BK dealer in your area then that would be a good option if you can run it on high once in awhile. The thermostatic operation should cover your temperature swings pretty nicely. BK has made some nice improvements in the past several year in the looks dept.. The new Ashford and Sircocco stoves are nice looking stoves.

Looks like we were writing at the same time. There are no official BK dealers that I can find, but two stove dealers I have spoken with both indicate willingness to try to get the stove I want. So I’m here trying to think about what stove I want and get to the point where my husband and I agree, since right now I want a freestander, and he wants an insert if it’s possible. Once that gets nailed down, then I’ll really get into details about stoves.

Thanks!

 

[Hogwildz]

Looks like we were writing at the same time. There are no official BK dealers that I can find, but two stove dealers I have spoken with both indicate willingness to try to get the stove I want. So I’m here trying to think about what stove I want and get to the point where my husband and I agree, since right now I want a freestander, and he wants an insert if it’s possible. Once that gets nailed down, then I’ll really get into details about stoves.

Thanks!

Let him put a gas setup in the existing fireplace, and get a freestander for you.

 

[Woody Stover]

we’re trying to figure out whether the pump and glide system is best for our climate or whether low and slow would be advantageous here.

Any cat stove will be pretty much overfire-proof; By and large, they run where you set the air. Now, if I don't burn in the load as much as I normally do, and leave the air open a bit to keep burning in the load a little more and don't cut the again in about a half hour, I might have some flame in the box for a while but it's still under control and won't come anywhere near overfire temps. There's probably more of a peak in output at the early stage of the burn than a BK would have with the thermo, but I load when it's starting to cool off in the house and a bit of a peak in output at the start of a fresh load is a good thing. The main benefit of the thermo for me would be that the air automatically opens up at the end of the burn and reduces the coal bed while holding stove top temp. I would only need that for 24/7 burning in very cold conditions here...if one of us wasn't here to open the air late in the burn on our little Keystone, which we are. Heck, our house is leaky with no wall insulation, and room temp seldom varies more that three degrees, even if I never re-open the air. Sounds like you will be burning one load a day to keep house temp up overnight until it warms up again the next day. Any of the cat stoves will easily give you a long enough burn to accomplish this, and you can get a Woodstock steel stove for 2/3 the price. Not trying to dissuade you from getting a BK, just saying that you have other options that merit consideration.

 

[Ashful]

The reason I initially said I’d not recommend BK for your application was an assumption that you’d want something you could burn at night, but would quickly go cold during the day. I figured that, more often than not, you’d be hot if your stove kept producing heat during the day. I have some issues with this myself, as one of my Ashford 30’s is installed in a 1990’s addition that is mostly glass, and it can get quite warm in there on sunny days. Of course, since it’s a BK 30, once it’s loaded I have only two choices to avoid roasting ourselves: run it low and slow for 30+ hours, or turn it up and just make massive heat for 4 hours. I always go the low and slow route, and by sundown we’re sometimes roasting at 78F, in that addition.

That said, a BK20 is no worse than any other stove of similar size. In fact, it’s far better, in that it does give you more range. A BK can typically run safely, without babysitting, over a burn rate range of more than 3:1. I believe that is way beyond any other stove, most other brands causing the operator to want to babysit them at anything much above their minimum burn rate.

So, perhaps my statement about not going BK in this application was a little unfair, but it was based on the assumption that your heating needs would be cyclical (overnights only, rarely during the day), and that those needs could be met just as well with a much cheaper Englander 13-NC. If you are indeed sometimes cold all day, then please throw my original recommendation out the window!

 

[Ashful]

Any cat stove will be pretty much overfire-proof; By and large, they run where you set the air... you can get a Woodstock steel stove for 2/3 the price. Not trying to dissuade you from getting a BK, just saying that you have other options that merit consideration.

I have two problems with this statement. First, I have overfired cat stoves, and so has just about anyone who’s owned a cat stove other than a BK. This is operator error, as you are correct in saying they pretty much run where you set the air, but it is very easy to leave the air at a high setting and overfire most cat stoves.

The uniqueness of the BK is, of course, the thermostat. This is what prevents overfire at ANY air setting, as it will automatically close to protect the stove, before it can overfire. Even at maximum setting.

Second, Woodstock makes fantastic stoves, and they’re a great company from all accounts here. But despite physics seeming to run counter to their claims, Woodstock owners often brag about how their stoves continue to radiate heat for endless hours after the fire has gone out, some counting those claims in fractions of a day. This is exactly the opposite of what I’d want, in any environment where it might be too warm to run the stove, 12 hours after I’m stuffing it full of wood, the night before.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Let him put a gas setup in the existing fireplace, and get a freestander for you.

The inspector we had to check out the fireplace to make sure everything was safe and proper when we first moved in was quite shocked that we wanted to cap the gas line and remove the lava rock and logs that were in there. He said everyone converts from wood to gas when they get the chance. He had a stock of extra wood grates at his shop, so he took one home to give to us to enable our change over. I think he was pleased even if surprised. We don’t actually use the fireplace, though we did light a fire the weekend one furnace died and it was 60 degrees in the kids’ rooms. They wanted to bask by it in the morning. (Once we knew the furnace was dead we put a space heater in one room and used a dehydrator to make yogurt in the other room overnight.)

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Not trying to dissuade you from getting a BK, just saying that you have other options that merit consideration.

Don’t worry; we haven’t settled on anything. I’m exploring options. BK is one; Woodstock is another. The sales model of Woodstock is attractive because I really don’t know if I can actually obtain a BK down here, but the low burn rate of a BK is attractive. The long burn time (and subsequent darker glass), however, may decrease that attraction. I’m exploring.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I have some issues with this myself, as one of my Ashford 30’s is installed in a 1990’s addition that is mostly glass, and it can get quite warm in there on sunny days. Of course, since it’s a BK 30, once it’s loaded I have only two choices to avoid roasting ourselves: run it low and slow for 30+ hours, or turn it up and just make massive heat for 4 hours. I always go the low and slow route, and by sundown we’re sometimes roasting at 78F, in that addition.

That said, a BK20 is no worse than any other stove of similar size. In fact, it’s far better, in that it does give you more range.

That’s definitely one of our concerns. I know you load on a set schedule to suit your needs (I’ve read this forum even befor you bought your Ashfords and followed that with interest), but wouldn’t a BK be able to be burned with a partial load of wood on a low setting if one got the cat up to temp first, or does that not work well? Something tells me that perhaps Highbeam does that when it’s really mild since he has no other heat.

Would you tell me more about the size of your addition that overheats sometimes, please? Square footage? Ceiling height? Is this something that only happens in shoulder season when it’s mild outside. If so, do you know at what temperatures. Obviously our climates are very different, but I’d be interested in comparing cubic footage and outdoor air temps if possible. I figure our winter is somewhat like your shoulder season.

I will say we had a gorgeous day with sunshine and bright blue skies today. I took the kids on a long walk, and the butterflies were feasting on rosemary blooms. Why am I researching stoves? Oh, right, it does actually get cold and gray and windy, even misty, for days at a time, and the power goes out, too. A day like today makes it hard to remember that.

 

[Woody Stover]

wouldn’t a BK be able to be burned with a partial load of wood on a low setting if one got the cat up to temp first, or does that not work well?

No problem at all doing that. I often do when I don't need a lot of heat. Just put in a partial load of some lower-output wood like Black Cherry or soft Maple, for less heat output and a shorter burn.

First, I have overfired cat stoves, and so has just about anyone who’s owned a cat stove other than a BK.

Bulloney. I've owned four different cat stoves and none of them has ever overfired. They are totally controllable. Now, the Buck cat itself occasionally ran hotter than I wanted until I tweaked the air control, but stove temp was always within bounds. Maybe you should edit your post to read "I have overfired cat stoves, and so has just about anyone who's owned a down-draft cat stove like my Firelight 12." Down-draft designs have been known to run unpredictably if the operator is inexperienced, and I wouldn't recommend one to these folks unless they are looking for adventure.

 

[Ashful]

That’s definitely one of our concerns. I know you load on a set schedule to suit your needs (I’ve read this forum even befor you bought your Ashfords and followed that with interest), but wouldn’t a BK be able to be burned with a partial load of wood on a low setting if one got the cat up to temp first, or does that not work well? Something tells me that perhaps Highbeam does that when it’s really mild since he has no other heat.

Yes, partial loads work very well. The problem I describe above is really my fault, as I get in the pattern of just loading that stove to the gills every 24 hours, and setting it as such. Case in point, I loaded it full last night, not taking notice that it would be unusually warm and sunny today. I came home to that side of the house at 76F, so tonight I checked the forecast and only put less than half a load in the box. It's purring along just as happy as it would on a full load, but hopefully the house won't be quite so warm when I get home tomorrow evening.

Would you tell me more about the size of your addition that overheats sometimes, please? Square footage? Ceiling height? Is this something that only happens in shoulder season when it’s mild outside. If so, do you know at what temperatures. Obviously our climates are very different, but I’d be interested in comparing cubic footage and outdoor air temps if possible. I figure our winter is somewhat like your shoulder season.

It's in a modern (1990's) room that measures 32' x 16', which is 2x6 construction with lots of double-pane windows and french doors (enormous solar gain), and a 14' vaulted ceiling. This room is completely open to an adjacent ca.1900 room of 18' x 18', with three windows and a glass door, and otherwise poorly insulated (it was baloon framed, modified with blown-in polystyrene beads). It's also adjacent to two other smaller rooms, thru an open doorway, another 300'ish square feet.

I'm honestly not trying to talk you out of a BK, if you're willing to spend the coin on it. As you already know, they can do everything that other stoves can, with the happy addition of more bottom-end range.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I'm honestly not trying to talk you out of a BK, if you're willing to spend the coin on it. As you already know, they can do everything that other stoves can, with the happy addition of more bottom-end range.

Thanks for sharing the details of your space. I appreciate it.

We really are keeping our options open right now. I’m thinking about BK because I am familiar with the product and am attracted precisely by the bottom-end range. If we couldn’t or wouldn’t use that, it would be silly to invest in it. I quite frankly was glad that your first comment on this thread was not to recommend one.

 

[begreen]

DuaeGuttae, where does your handle come from? 2 drops of what?

 

[Zack R]

Where in Texas are you located? For reference on a medium size stove like my Jotul F45 it's currently 10F outside (was 5F a hour ago) and inside my house is a comfortable 72F, on low burn with pine. House was built in 2004, two stories about 1600 sqft. I can literally roast us out of the place if I want to.

When I think south Texas I think Laredo and McAllen and hot tropical weather not wood stoves! Up in Amarillo or anywhere in the panhandle I could see having one but where would you find any wood?

 

[Woody Stover]

I’m thinking about BK because I am familiar with the product and am attracted precisely by the bottom-end range. If we couldn’t or wouldn’t use that, it would be silly to invest in it.

Did I understand that you never ran the Princess at your other place? If not, what is this "familiarity" of which you speak?
I wouldn't place a lot of importance on the "low-turndown" of the BKs. Cat stoves all turn down pretty low. Heck, even the mighty Buck 91 turns down lower than all the BKs except the 30.1 series, according to the EPA test numbers. And as Highbeam has pointed out from his own first-hand experience, if you try to turn 'em down too low you are going to severely gunk up your liner. You certainly don't want that, from a safety standpoint. You have to carry a certain amount of heat up the stack to prevent condensation.
(broken link removed to https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves)

 

[DuaeGuttae]

DuaeGuttae, where does your handle come from? 2 drops of what?

Dew, actually.

Years ago I made up a little song to sing to my first baby.

Sparkle, sparkle, little eyes.
How I wonder what you spy.
Up above a quite cute nose,
Like two dewdrops on a rose.
Sparkle, sparkle little eyes.
How I wonder what you spy.

I still sing it today to the current baby. I just didn’t want to tack the Latin for “of dew” onto the end of the screen name.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Where in Texas are you located? For reference on a medium size stove like my Jotul F45 it's currently 10F outside (was 5F a hour ago) and inside my house is a comfortable 72F, on low burn with pine. House was built in 2004, two stories about 1600 sqft. I can literally roast us out of the place if I want to.

When I think south Texas I think Laredo and McAllen and hot tropical weather not wood stoves! Up in Amarillo or anywhere in the panhandle I could see having one but where would you find any wood?

The nearest major metropolitan area is San Antonio, but I’m at higher elevation up in Hill Country. It’s still considered south Texas, but I think my thread title must have thrown some people. The climate zone is humid subtropical. I was told when we were moving here that there were two seasons, “hot and hotter” or “summer and not summer.” I was shocked when I first drove into the area through San Antonio that there were signs on every bridge or elevated road about possible ice in cold weather. I just laughed, but now I’ve seen that the cold does come blowing straight down from Canada, and it lingers a bit, and then it moves on.

It was the winter solstice today, and it was in the 70’s. My next door neighbor says that’s why he retired to Texas.

We do have wood, lots of live and red oak and Ashe Juniper/Texas Cedar. We have a number of dead trees that need to come down and lots of pruning and thinning that needs to happen for the health of the trees. I doubt we’d use all that much wood in any given winter, but it’s available.

I definitely have no desire to roast us out of our house, and I know it’s very possible.

 

[begreen]

In Spain they joke that they have two seasons. Inverno and Inferno!

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Did I understand that you never ran the Princess at your other place? If not, what is this "familiarity" of which you speak?
I wouldn't place a lot of importance on the "low-turndown" of the BKs. Cat stoves all turn down pretty low. Heck, even the mighty Buck 91 turns down lower than all the BKs except the 30.1 series, according to the EPA test numbers. And as Highbeam has pointed out from his own first-hand experience, if you try to turn 'em down too low you are going to severely gunk up your liner. You certainly don't want that, from a safety standpoint. You have to carry a certain amount of heat up the stack to prevent condensation.
(broken link removed to https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves)

Yes, Woody, I never ran the Princess. The “familiarity” of which I speak is the same familiarity I have with American or world history. Reading, research, conversations and communication with people who have experience or who have left records. Could I be deceived? Yes. Am I an expert? No.

I know you love your Keystone, and I know that you have your doubts about BK’s. I’ll be glad to take suggestions of specific models in other brands you think might be useful to me. (I did check into the Buck you posted earlier, but it can’t go into a pre-fab fireplace, which I thought was what you were suggesting at the time, but maybe I misunderstood.).

I don’t understand all the BTU numbers from the list you posted, I will admit. My non-cat Lopi Revere had a pretty low end listed, and I controlled heat with it by the amount of wood loaded and the species. It certainly didn’t have an ability to control heat about otherwise. I haven’t read claims from other cat stove users about the ability to run at a lower end of output.

Please just don’t turn this thread into the sniping and arguing that can occur. I’ve never enjoyed that.

 

[Woody Stover]

I’ll be glad to take suggestions of specific models in other brands you think might be useful to me. (I did check into the Buck you posted earlier, but it can’t go into a pre-fab fireplace, which I thought was what you were suggesting at the time, but maybe I misunderstood.)

I'm not the stove guru that some folks here are. Begreen studies, reads and looks when he gets a chance, and he certainly steered me right suggesting the Keystone. Actually, I will probably go to a welded steel box at some point, to avoid the inevitable air leaks at cemented or gasketed seams. I'd also like to have a secondary stove as a backup (no other heat here yet,) instead of two cats.
If you read and research as you say, you'll make a good choice in the end I'm sure. But there sure are a lot of options out there. Take your time and make the best choice you possibly can. But there are always unknowns, and I feel that I got lucky with begreen suggesting the Ks when he did. It has most of the features that are high on my list. I had seen my SIL's used Fireview and knew what kind of quality to expect.
I just mentioned the Buck as an example of another cat stove that is rated to run at low output. They also make ZC stoves as do other companies, but we have precious little to go on as far as real-world experience with most of what's out there.

My non-cat Lopi Revere had a pretty low end listed, and I controlled heat with it by the amount of wood loaded and the species. It certainly didn’t have an ability to control heat about otherwise.

I think the EPA numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt in some cases. What you did with the Lopi is all you need to do with any stove if you just want it to carry house temp overnight, then let it go out most days..load a partial if it's not going to be all that cold. I don't think you have to worry too much about roasting yourself.

Please just don’t turn this thread into the sniping and arguing that can occur. I’ve never enjoyed that.

I'm trying to not be as in-your-face this year regarding the fanboy hype..but I can only take so much before enough is enough. I think you now have plenty to consider so I will leave it alone and let you get on with gleaning even more info from everyone regarding the momentous choice that's facing you.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

In Spain they joke that they have two seasons. Inverno and Inferno!

Nice. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that around here some time.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I'm not the stove guru that some folks here are. Begreen studies, reads and looks when he gets a chance, and he certainly steered me right suggesting the Keystone. Actually, I will probably go to a welded steel box at some point, to avoid the inevitable air leaks at cemented or gasketed seams. I'd also like to have a secondary stove as a backup (no other heat here yet,) instead of two cats.
If you read and research as you say, you'll make a good choice in the end I'm sure. But there sure are a lot of options out there. Take your time and make the best choice you possibly can. But there are always unknowns, and I feel that I got lucky with begreen suggesting the Ks when he did. It has most of the features that are high on my list. I had seen my SIL's used Fireview and knew what kind of quality to expect.
I just mentioned the Buck as an example of another cat stove that is rated to run at low output. They also make ZC stoves as do other companies, but we have precious little to go on as far as real-world experience with most of what's out there.I think the EPA numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt in some cases. What you did with the Lopi is all you need to do with any stove if you just want it to carry house temp overnight, then let it go out most days..load a partial if it's not going to be all that cold. I don't think you have to worry too much about roasting yourself.
I'm trying to not be as in-your-face this year regarding the fanboy hype..but I can only take so much before enough is enough. I think you now have plenty to consider so I will leave it alone and let you get on with gleaning even more info from everyone regarding the momentous choice that's facing you.

Thank you. I appreciate the input. At this point, our plan is in part to research by living through the winter without a stove. We’ve been keeping track of how we feel in the house, how often heats run, and the like. In the new year we do plan to pay to have an installer visit for measurements.

We did just get word that Superior allows an insert if the firebox itself is not modified. The faceplate and damper can be removed. My husband really wants an insert in the part of the house where we spend a lot of time, and I see the appeal as well.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, All.

 

[begreen]

Thank you. I appreciate the input. At this point, our plan is in part to research by living through the winter without a stove. We’ve been keeping track of how we feel in the house, how often heats run, and the like. In the new year we do plan to pay to have an installer visit for measurements.

We did just get word that Superior allows an insert if the firebox itself is not modified. The faceplate and damper can be removed. My husband really wants an insert in the part of the house where we spend a lot of time, and I see the appeal as well.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, All.

I like your approach. It's the way I advise people when they have just moved. Give yourself some time to get used to the house. Notice the light, solar gain, comfort in different areas and how you use the spaces. No hurry. After you have lived in the house for a while and note its strengths and weakness you can then make changes that enhance your lifestyle. Too many people come in and blitz a house with design ideas from their past that have little to do with their new dwelling. The results can be visually awkward at best and sometimes poorly functional.

Very happy to hear that Superior got back to you. Thanks for the update.

 

[brazilbl]

Thanks for the thoughts. I will say that my husband is not keen on the idea of demolishing the hearth as he thinks it would turn into a bigger project than we would want trying to keep a nice, uniform look with what’s already in place.

Do I gather from this that no one votes for a freestanding stove in the other part of the house? Because it’s not the focal point? Because of the need for such a high chimney out of the single story?

My husband definitely prefers the idea of a “plug and play” insert. We’d love to hear some suggestions if we are limited to 20”.

Thanks for the thoughts so far. I appreciate your weighing in, though I’m sure many are getting chuckles over our desire to have a stove at all.

You may want to investigate another option - a hearth heater. Our home had the same majestic unit (20-inch clearance). I could have installed a Regency I1200 or a H2100, which is a hearth heater. I opted for the hearth heater for the additional heating and a slightly bigger firebox. Heats the house fine! Wonderful investment.