STIHL ISSUE

[Stihlmike]

I may be done with that dealer. I am buying the sharpenin guid today and touching up the blade. I am also going to order the clutch tool today as well, for the craftsman. The oil resovoir does not go down at all. I am not sure if my dad ever really learned to sharpen a chain as the chain looks to be filed straight and not at an angle either. Going to watch a few videos and re-read my manual on sharpening the chain on the stihl. It cut really well yesterday. I added a bit of the fuel addative as well. WIll be looking into trying to get some non-ethanol gas as well. I think that the place i purchased my gas before has more than 10% ethanol.

The stihl sounds a different at idle now. It has the burbling sound as talked about. There is a tiny lag on the throttle but it picks up fast. It took a few more pulls to get it started on the first round, but after cooling down for a few hours it only took one pull to get it going again.

This saw has the easy to start mechanism on it as well. I was wondering if buying the carbide chain is worth the extra money. I am looking to see if an 18" bar will work for this saw as well. I think the 16 is perfect and gets the optimum power from the saw but think it may work well on the saw.

I looked at the muffler and it has 3 vents on it with a screen behind it. Is this a factory port or just the standard muffler design. I may take it to the other dealer that prof suggested to look over it again, and be sure that the carb and everything is tuned correctly. Will be cutting today, tomorow, sunday, and monday morning

THe tech said that on orders onder 150.00 or so the frieght charge would have been 10.00. I would have gladly spent the ten dollars to get an extra 10 days and possibly 1-2 chords done instead of being that far behind and maybe having to spend 150.00 per chord to make up for it.

I still may wait until mid winter, or spring to install the burner. I want to be sure that the wood is seasoned at least a year, even the standing dead stuff, before I look at burning anything. I think this may be the best idea. It will allow me to cut for next year, this year, and start cutting for 2015-2016 burning season in the spring and get ahead of the game.

 

[Ashful]

I may be done with that dealer. I am buying the sharpenin guid today and touching up the blade. I am also going to order the clutch tool today as well, for the craftsman. The oil resovoir does not go down at all. I am not sure if my dad ever really learned to sharpen a chain as the chain looks to be filed straight and not at an angle either. Going to watch a few videos and re-read my manual on sharpening the chain on the stihl. It cut really well yesterday. I added a bit of the fuel addative as well. WIll be looking into trying to get some non-ethanol gas as well. I think that the place i purchased my gas before has more than 10% ethanol.

The stihl sounds a different at idle now. It has the burbling sound as talked about. There is a tiny lag on the throttle but it picks up fast. It took a few more pulls to get it started on the first round, but after cooling down for a few hours it only took one pull to get it going again.

This saw has the easy to start mechanism on it as well. I was wondering if buying the carbide chain is worth the extra money. I am looking to see if an 18" bar will work for this saw as well. I think the 16 is perfect and gets the optimum power from the saw but think it may work well on the saw.

I looked at the muffler and it has 3 vents on it with a screen behind it. Is this a factory port or just the standard muffler design. I may take it to the other dealer that prof suggested to look over it again, and be sure that the carb and everything is tuned correctly. Will be cutting today, tomorow, sunday, and monday morning

THe tech said that on orders onder 150.00 or so the frieght charge would have been 10.00. I would have gladly spent the ten dollars to get an extra 10 days and possibly 1-2 chords done instead of being that far behind and maybe having to spend 150.00 per chord to make up for it.

I still may wait until mid winter, or spring to install the burner. I want to be sure that the wood is seasoned at least a year, even the standing dead stuff, before I look at burning anything. I think this may be the best idea. It will allow me to cut for next year, this year, and start cutting for 2015-2016 burning season in the spring and get ahead of the game.

Whoa there... Mr. Stream of Consciousness pants. Can't keep track of which saw you're talking about when... but to hit on a few items:

Buy a couple loops of Stihl 33-RS or 33-RSC chain (add a -3 at the end if you want the "safety chain" version) for each saw. It's the best full-chisel all-purpose chain for a mid-sized saw, and used my many hearth.com'ers.

Carbide chain is good for someone who knows they're going to be getting to roots (rocks / dirt), but they're very hard to sharpen. Stihl recommends only using a diamond wheel ($150) on your chain grinder for sharpening these chains. I cannot imagine sharpening carbide by hand, and it will cost you $15 - $25/chain to get them professionally sharpened in 20" size, as opposed to $4 - $5 for the same 33-RSC at 20".

The burbling that was previously mentioned is a wide-open-throttle / max RPM. Don't hold it there for more than a second or three, but when you rev it wide open, you should hear a bit of burbling (referred to as "four-stroking") with no load. If you do this, and then put it to the wood, it should clean up and run smooth under load.

Re: your dad's sharpening. Some chains are sharpened strait, but not most chains used by a home owner on a Craftsman saw. Different chains are sharpened with different diameter files, and there are three angles defining the grind. These are typically referred to as:

top plate: typically around 30 degrees
grind angle: typically around 60 degrees (defined as the complimentary 30 degrees on some grinders)
vise tilt: typically 0 to 15 degrees, most often 10 degrees, and ignored by many

 

[Stihlmike]

Glad you filled me in on the carbide chain. I don't think I will be getting it.

Was looking at picking up a spare chain as well so you pretty much answered my question. My dad was adimate with using oregon chains and bars on his craftsman. He gave me 4 chains and 2 extra bars for the craftsman. Do you feel that Oregon chains and bars are better than STIHL?

I also want to get the file tool this weekend. I did see an electric sharpener at the dealership, but think this would actually be harder to work with than the standard file. I want to be sure to have a PROPERLY sharpened chain at all times while cutting. I think for now I want to go with the safety chain version until I get more time behind the saw.

 

[Ashful]

Well, the Oregon Vanguard stuff they sell at home stores and hardware stores is a homeowner chain, and it's good at requiring less frequent sharpening, but it's pretty slow for cutting. You can ID that chain pretty quick by the semi-chisel cutters (look like a ? in cross-section, versus full chisel, which looks like a 7), and the hooked over depth gauges. Google Images is your friend, on chain ID.

When you get into pro chain, Oregon vs. Stihl don't matter. In fact, most of the other brand chains you will buy are really made by Oregon. If you're going to buy Oregon, then you'd be looking for the H47, as the equivalent to Stihl's 33-RSC. These are both 3/8" pitch x 0.050" guage full-chisel chains. Check the markings on your bars to confirm this is what you need, but I'll bet that's what they take (3/8" x 0.050").

Stihl's full-chisel safety chain is 33-RSC3 (or 33-RS3... they keep changing their nomenclature). I'm sure there's a safety version of the Oregon H47, but I don't know what it is... any REAL saw dealer can help. There's also an equivalent Carlton... my dealer uses all three interchangeably, depending on who has the best pricing at the time they're buying their spools.

My advice on sharpening, even though it's not what I did myself... buy the right hand files (5/32" for Stihl 33-RSC, I think?), a depth gauge, and a straight mill file, and learn to sharpen by hand. Don't bother with electric sharpeners, unless you're doing a boatload of cutting, and can't keep up by hand. You won't be good at first, but you'll get good quick, and you'll always appreciate having that skill in your back pocket.

Me? I bought a full bench-mount chain grinder, and I can work thru a bunch of chain real fast with it. But, I also took a lot of life out of several chains early on, learning to get good at it. It works for me, since I keep a toolbox full of spare chains with me while I'm cutting, and just swap out when one gets dulled. I take the pile of chains into the garage after a weekend of cutting, and spend an evening during the week sharpening in the comfort of my garage. It's what works for me, but not the cheapest route for a beginner.

edit: photo of my toolkit / spare chains at the bottom of this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/36-bar.111572/page-2

 

[clemsonfor]

Keep in mind that you don't know what the dealer told Corporate about your case. And yes, once the sale is complete, you're better off dealing directly with the service department than using your saleman as a go between. Some sales personell are knowledgable and will go the distance to keep you happy but the bottom line is they make zilch whether you get your saw back or not. Their end of the deal is done and any further time invested is simply goodwill.

And what kind of dealer doesn't keep a carb in stock for a 021/023/025/MS210/MS230/MS250? (All the same family.)

honestly was thinking the same thing? kind of like what dealer does not have a bar or chain for those saws?

 

[clemsonfor]

Well, the Oregon Vanguard stuff they sell at home stores and hardware stores is a homeowner chain, and it's good at requiring less frequent sharpening, but it's pretty slow for cutting. You can ID that chain pretty quick by the semi-chisel cutters (look like a ? in cross-section, versus full chisel, which looks like a 7), and the hooked over depth gauges. Google Images is your friend, on chain ID.

When you get into pro chain, Oregon vs. Stihl don't matter. In fact, most of the other brand chains you will buy are really made by Oregon. If you're going to buy Oregon, then you'd be looking for the H47, as the equivalent to Stihl's 33-RSC. These are both 3/8" pitch x 0.050" guage full-chisel chains. Check the markings on your bars to confirm this is what you need, but I'll be that's what they take (3/8" x 0.050").

Stihl's full-chisel safety chain is 33-RSC3 (or 33-RS3... they keep changing their nomenclature). I'm sure there's a safety version of the Oregon H47, but I don't know what it is... any REAL saw dealer can help. There's also an equivalent Carlton... my dealer uses all three interchangeably, depending on who has the best pricing at the time they're buying their spools.

My advice on sharpening, even though it's not what I did myself... buy the right hand files (5/32" for Stihl 33-RSC, I think?), a depth gauge, and a straight mill file, and learn to sharpen by hand. Don't bother with electric sharpeners, unless you're doing a boatload of cutting, and can't keep up by hand. You won't be good at first, but you'll get good quick, and you'll always appreciate having that skill in your back pocket.

Me? I bought a full bench-mount chain grinder, and I can work thru a bunch of chain real fast with it. But, I also took a lot of life out of several chains early on, learning to get good at it. It works for me, since I keep a toolbox full of spare chains with me while I'm cutting, and just swap out when one gets dulled. I take the pile of chains into the garage after a weekend of cutting, and spend an evening during the week sharpening in the comfort of my garage. It's what works for me, but not the cheapest route for a beginner.

edit: photo of my toolkit / spare chains at the bottom of this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/36-bar.111572/page-2

I agree with this. I have the harborfreight grinder and its amazing. I am a decent hand filer but this will get them good every time. But you will whack 25% of a tooth if not paying close attention to the settings when you start a new chain. Its only $29 so its not much more than some of the other chain gemmicks out there and for a homeowner like me it works and is worth it. I almost never handfile anymore but i am also not whacking my chains up anymore, i can easily get 8 sharpenings out of the grinder maybe more, yes more wear than hand fileing but i also sharpen my chains every few trips out as i dont hit dirt and i dont cut that much each time. I keep several chains with me to swap and now take a backup saw with a chain as well.

 

[clemsonfor]

I may be done with that dealer. I am buying the sharpenin guid today and touching up the blade. I am also going to order the clutch tool today as well, for the craftsman. The oil resovoir does not go down at all. I am not sure if my dad ever really learned to sharpen a chain as the chain looks to be filed straight and not at an angle either. Going to watch a few videos and re-read my manual on sharpening the chain on the stihl. It cut really well yesterday. I added a bit of the fuel addative as well. WIll be looking into trying to get some non-ethanol gas as well. I think that the place i purchased my gas before has more than 10% ethanol.

The stihl sounds a different at idle now. It has the burbling sound as talked about. There is a tiny lag on the throttle but it picks up fast. It took a few more pulls to get it started on the first round, but after cooling down for a few hours it only took one pull to get it going again.

This saw has the easy to start mechanism on it as well. I was wondering if buying the carbide chain is worth the extra money. I am looking to see if an 18" bar will work for this saw as well. I think the 16 is perfect and gets the optimum power from the saw but think it may work well on the saw.

I looked at the muffler and it has 3 vents on it with a screen behind it. Is this a factory port or just the standard muffler design. I may take it to the other dealer that prof suggested to look over it again, and be sure that the carb and everything is tuned correctly. Will be cutting today, tomorow, sunday, and monday morning

THe tech said that on orders onder 150.00 or so the frieght charge would have been 10.00. I would have gladly spent the ten dollars to get an extra 10 days and possibly 1-2 chords done instead of being that far behind and maybe having to spend 150.00 per chord to make up for it.

I still may wait until mid winter, or spring to install the burner. I want to be sure that the wood is seasoned at least a year, even the standing dead stuff, before I look at burning anything. I think this may be the best idea. It will allow me to cut for next year, this year, and start cutting for 2015-2016 burning season in the spring and get ahead of the game.

OK a few things. Dont put any alcohol fuel addative in a 2stroke. Only thing i would add is stabil or seafoam. And most high quality oil, stihl and Husky i know have a fuel stabilizer in it, so your really wasting your money there, i have had the stuff sit for a year with husky oil and not a problem no hint of stale smell.

The burple like Joful said is at wide open. At idle it should just sound like bmm, bmmm, bmmmb,bmmm ,bm , bm maybe it should be steady, and you may get some stumble or some shorter bmm's but it should not "lope" it should be steady not up and down.

Your CARB is NOT adjusted right i know as there should be ZERO hesitation from an idle to grabbing the throttle to wide open, should go grab throttle/rev all the way instantly. NOT grab throttle/waaaa-then take take off. This means your L screw is not adjusted right, this in coridination with the Idle screw LA i think its called are not adjusted for peak rpms (read a description of tuneing a saw for this to make sense). It could still "4 stroke" at WOT though and be fine up top?????? dont know, but if you have ever run your saw out of fuel, you know how it leans out as there is not enough fuel and the RPMs speed way up before it cuts off....THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT YOUR SAW to sound like all the time. NOT that clean high RPM sound while reving it.
The new dealer should be able to adjust the carb to take out the hesitation for free for you. Or since you want to learn do it yourself as you will have to one day.

As to the holes in the muffler, since the saw is brand new, yes this is your factory muffler. You can call it the Muffler port, but you do not have an additional port in your muffler or a "ported" saw. Its factory? ALso the screen is the spark arrester, i pull it out as its more restriction but you need to check carb settings if you do, and all saws have different holes and patters i guess yours is a 3 hole design? My factory 390 had 2 oveled holes?

Dont worry, your grasping the learning curve here. Hang in with us. Once your warrenty ends or you want to get adventurous you will have a muffler mod on that thing!!

 

[Stihlmike]

THANKS SO MUCH! you guys are really helping me understand. I am glad that I found this forum and cant think of how much money I would have wasted on things that are not that great or what they are hyped up to be. The saw does do the bum bummm buuumm at idle. I thought that was the noise joful was talking about. i may try and take a video of the saw and put it up to try and let you guys see for sure. The last thing I want is for the saw to cut out on me again.

 

[DexterDay]

No. The burble is at wide open throttle. It should idle low enough to stay running, but not so high that the chain moves. If the chain moves, then lower the idle.

Trying turning the L screw a 1/4 counterclockwise. Then try and go to WOT. If that didnt help, go back to where you were (1/4 clockwise) and then go another 1/8-1/4 turn clockwise).

Would behoove you to watch a tuning video to better understand how to "hear" what your saw needs.

 

[MasterMech]

Holy information overload batman! Lots of well meaning but inaccurate info there boys....

Mike, go check out the other dealer. While you're there, pick up a Stihl file kit for .325 chain as it will have everything you need to get started hand filing your own chains. Check out those Stihl videos for a sharpening how-to.

Ask him for a loop of 26RS-62 (I think it's 62 links for the 16" on that saw.....) and make sure the label on the box is yellow, not green. Hell, buy two if you want.

You're muffler is stock and I think you should leave it that way until either the warranty is up or you just can't stop yourself.

Stick with the 16" bar setup. You will gain little going to the 18. Also Stihl chain is the best IMO but oregon isn't bad at all. But no reason to prefer it over Stihl other than price.

And since you're picking up a few goodies he will most likely re-adjust that carb for you for free. If he's really trying to win you over, he will show you how to do it too.

 

[Ashful]

26RS? That's .325" x .063"! Who runs that?

<-- bought and/or sold 6 saws in the last two years, and all of them over 40cc ran .375" x .050"

 

[MasterMech]

26RS? That's .325" x .063"! Who runs that?

<-- bought and/or sold 6 saws in the last two years, and all of them over 40cc ran .375" x .050"

The MS230, 250, 260/261, 270, 280, and the 290 run .325 .063 from the factory. Some 260/261s and 290s were ordered with 3/8" .050 but they are a definite minority.

 

[Nixon]

Mike, go check out the other dealer. While you're there, pick up a Stihl file kit for .325 chain as it will have everything you need to get started hand filing your own chains. Check out those Stihl videos for a sharpening how-to.

Mike , while you are down there buying that file kit for .325 chain , buy the ff1 roller guide for .325 chain . Costs about 12 bucks . It locks your file holder to 30* ,so it make hand filing pretty easy . It even comes with a dvd on how to use it !
Recently picked up one for .375 and .325 , they work well.

 

[HittinSteel]

The MS230, 250, 260/261, 270, 280, and the 290 run .325 .063 from the factory. Some 260/261s and 290s were ordered with 3/8" .050 but they are a definite minority.

.325 is what I ran on my 260 and now run on the 346.

.325 RSC is some darn nice chain

 

[Ashful]

The MS230, 250, 260/261, 270, 280, and the 290 run .325 .063 from the factory. Some 260/261s and 290s were ordered with 3/8" .050 but they are a definite minority.

Wow... you learn things here. Good thing I told him to double-check the markings on his bar, before buying chain!

I've never even seen a 0.325 x 0.063 chain! Seems odd to run such a wide gauge on such a small saw. I never saw any 0.063" on any bar under 36", and then you're talking 0.375" or 0.404".

 

[clemsonfor]

I think they ordered it at work for their baby saws running 325. They for new bars too.

I think the saw shop guy said something about running 63 when you 50 bat gets sloppy? But this is hearsay from their conversation after they bought the 63?

 

[TreePointer]

If you're not sure, don't guess. Take your bar with you to the dealer. It will have stamped on it the pitch, gauge, and number of drive links required.

 

[MasterMech]

I think they ordered it at work for their baby saws running 325. They for new bars too.

I think the saw shop guy said something about running 63 when you 50 bat gets sloppy? But this is hearsay from their conversation after they bought the 63?

Excellent way to ruin good chain. If your bar is worn then its time for a new bar, not a chain upgrade.

 

[clemsonfor]

Didn't say I would do it. A saw shop told him that!! I was like I don't think that's how it works??

 

[Stihlmike]

You guys arent going to believe this. Took the saw out at 7 am saturday morning. Foubdca fewcdecent standing dead trees to add to the wood pile. Mixed up some 92 octane and premium stihl oil. Went to start the say and it just wouldnt start. You gotta be kidding me. It never even attempted to start. Got frustrated and called the other dealer. The woman there told me tge steps to clear a flooded engine. Took it down to my dads and it was in deed flooded. I removed the blug and dried it off. Flipped the saw overand pulled the chord to clear the pist. In of gas. Took a cle my an dry rag and cleared the engine and carb areas of gas and let the saw sit a little while. Wiped the plug off one more time and installed it. Tried the starting process all over again with no start. My dad told me that it looks like im not getting spark. No way its a brand new plug.engine Pulled the plug again and it was wet. We dried it off again and cleared the engine and wiped it out. I put an opd plug in that he had and fired it up. It still took a few pulls though. Hit the throttle and it bogged out. After about 10you more pulls it fires up but ran a little rough. I let it run for a bit to try and let it burn up some gas.

Back up to the woods and im cutting. Saw had major lag when i hit the throttle and would bog out at random. I got maybe 15 small logs cut and in the truck in about two hours of messing around. I called the dealer and said that it is still not running at 100%. He told me to bring it back and get my money back.

I am not sure what i should do with buying a new saw. I know stihl makes a good saw but given the past month of rediculousness not sure i want to go with them again. I have seen a few suggestions for the ms250 and farmboss. What saw do you think would be best.i cant reall afford a pro saw right now. Should i turn my back on stihl and get a husky?

If i stick with stihl should i buy another saw off of this dealer? My gut tells me no but if i want to go with a different dealet id have to wait until next Saturday to get on and be back another week.

 

[clemsonfor]

Stihl is a good saw. Get money back and go to the other dealer.

I have had mine for 8 years only thing I have done is a fuel line. And tore the whole top end off, because I was to lazy to replace a broken decomp valve that fell apart and wedges itselt on the piston an. Head. Got the piece out, new plug and assembled and runs fine!

You have a lemon. Bit honestly its a Carb adjustment thing. Told you they did not have it adjusted. Right.

I still would get my money and go to the other dealer. Ask what he thinks you need and go from there. The 260 or whatever they have now is a nice pro saw in your range but I could out cut it with my stock 390, although mine is heavier I am still cheaper. Talk it through. I don't think you need a pro saw yet?

 

[clemsonfor]

Take it back and go to the other. Dealer and buy one.

Told you they didn't have your. Carb adjusted right. Its moat likely a setting deal on it but just start over.

Stihl makes a decent saw. In 8 yrs only thing I done to my 390 that was not my fault is a fuel line.

You can talk to him on your needs and see what he says but I don't think you need a pro saw.

The 260 or whatwr it is now is a nice saw but I got a 390 for similar money or less and I can out cut a 260 both stock, but mine is way heavier!!

I vote get money n go to new dealer.

 

[MasterMech]

If it was a Husky, I wouldn't tell you to ditch it for a Stihl based on a bad experience with 1 saw.

Honestly, something is wrong with how the carb was installed. Or so it seems to me. I would have the other dealer take a look. Anything that's wrong should be covered under warranty.

The alternative plan would be to go buy a MS251 to replace your 230 from your preferred dealer. Then take the 230 back.

 

[Stihlmike]

So the farmboss is a no go?

 

[clemsonfor]

No 290 is a good saw and I thing resells better due to being recognized. My wood buddy has one, but with the muff mod on my 390 and a sharp chain I cut 2 rounds for his one