St criox owners please help

[SmokeyTheBear]

Yes I do have that T-stat wired up.
It came with it..
I also have tried a Honeywell Programmable (not wire-less)

Thank you for confirming the wiring!
I felt I had that right.

I've read some programmable's need 24v line voltage to run..
Anyone know what the line voltage is?
I'm going to put my DMM on it and check myself today.
I also have an older one upstairs that is only used as a thermometer...
May switch that one and try. (but I need clean start ups)

Whatever your stove is it is likely a millivolt system. The stove is looking for a switch, your stat provides that switch, you need a stat with a swing to it so it isn't short cycling the stoves ignition systems or the stat needs a cycle length enforcement system to reduce the number of cycles the stove is put through. . The voltage across the stat terminals at the stove end can be under a volt. You will be hard pressed to operate any stat that actually requires power from the stove.

 

[RobertNH]

I will double check that once I have it running again..
Arg...

 

[Pheasant Hollow Farm]

Yes I do have that T-stat wired up.
It came with it..
I also have tried a Honeywell Programmable (not wire-less)

Thank you for confirming the wiring!
I felt I had that right.

I've read some programmable's need 24v line voltage to run..
Anyone know what the line voltage is?
I'm going to put my DMM on it and check myself today.
I also have an older one upstairs that is only used as a thermometer...
May switch that one and try. (but I need clean start ups)

Line voltage is 5VDC going to the T-stat wires

Steve
Pheasant Hollow Farm

 

[RobertNH]

Okay guys...
I've been to the Dealer and replace the POF sensor, no change..
Back again and replace the main board.. No change..

How often to you folks pull those covers off and vacuum?
With the USSG Forester I'd do it weekly...
I'm about to do it this weekend, and I've gone through about 6-8 bags so far.
Ash pan I've emptied twice.. and vacuumed the interior each time.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thank you! That answers a question.
It's not something that would be effected by fly ash.

Snip .... snip

I have a long run on my OAK, so opening the damper made some sense.
Slowing the exhaust blower did as well.
We shall see...

Once again, thank you for your assistance!

Not true on the fly ash RobertNH. If the area behind that POF gets crudded up it will (because ash is an excellent insulator) prevent the POF from closing within the time frame allotted and it will cause the stove to shut down on low fire if the stove was already running. The area behind the POF needs cleaning every time the combustion blower should be pulled and cleaned. If you have been having a poor burns the fly ash will have a head start.

A warning about long runs of venting (this includes OAK runs as they are part of the vent system).

Only bends if absolutely needed, any bends must be gentle, make certain that any covering on the outside is only a wind shield when burning. Mesh screens can severely restrict airflow if the mesh is small and large meshed screens will collect frost build up and restrict airflow. OAK runs actually have a length consideration. All vent runs should be as bend free and as short as constitutes a proper installation.

 

[RobertNH]

What I was trying to understand Smokey was whether or not the sensor was in the flow of the 'fly ash'.
I see now it is not.
I do understand that if the blower of full of such, then hindrance makes sense.

 

[RobertNH]

Now, speaking of the sensor and after a rather frustrating conversation with St Croix tech support (yes, with a bit of persistence, they will call you)., they tell me the sensor should be in contact with the blower.
I did explain to him that factory set has it 1/8" away, yet he insisted it has to be in contact..

Got nowhere with why it's not from the factory...

So my friends.. Is yours 'in contact' with the blower?
I did ask if he meant the bracket, the way he responded bothered me, but he insisted the sensor it's self needs to be.

I found him to be rather arrogant and when asked particulars, he said he would have to check..
I can handle arrogance if you know what you're talking about, I know how to work around it to get my answers..
He was just plain arrogant.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

What I was trying to understand Smokey was whether or not the sensor was in the flow of the 'fly ash'.
I see now it is not.
I do understand that if the blower of full of such, then hindrance makes sense.

Your POF may not be in the exhaust flow but the ash flow does get to the cowling and thus can and does affect the POF. In addition never place anything between that POF and the cowling and make sure that there is very good contact with the cowling.

Fly ash is the number one cause of pellet burning issues, it even causes people to play games with part swapping and setting changing, all for nothing except spare part collecting, a bald head, frequently angry spouse, and a cold house.

The amount of ash need not be large if it gets into the right place.

 

[RobertNH]

I also found my issue with the T stat... Dam short in the wire.. Arg...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Which St. Croix do you have?

Please include the stove in your signature, the thread title, or both. Folks can give better advice when they have that information in front of them.

I've read so many manuals another one won't matter.

 

[RobertNH]

Element P

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The POF must be mounted such that the actual button on the front of it is against a metal surface in contact with the blower cowling. How that turns out on your stove I can't tell from the exploded parts diagram. The reason there is a standoff is to protect what is likely a non ceramic switch body from going south. There are some folks on here that can tell stories of POF switches just falling apart when touched due to the casing opening up a bit resulting in ejecting the switch pieces when moved or touched after long periods of heat exposure (the reason this fussy critter likes his ceramic POF).


That unit looks interesting but wouldn't fit in with my KISS mindset. I had enough of complex in another time.

You made me think of several t-stat wiring stories involving nails, screws, staples, and sharp metal corners. It takes very little to foul up the works.

 

[RobertNH]

Thanks Smokey, that's tonight's project..

The T-stat drove me nuts.
I finally just broke out the DMM and started testing everything..

The T-stat they sent with the unit was wired (terminal) wrong by them..
Then the wire was shorted...
New wire, the programmable on and running.

All I need now is clean re-starts... arg..
Here's hoping getting the sensor on correctly does the trick..
Really drives me nuts when I take the time to view what the factory did (believing it right), match it, and find out it's wrong...
Then dealing with an arrogant tech telling me 'I' did it wrong... arg..

 

[RobertNH]

I stopped by the Dealer today, he and I are becoming good friends. Like these guys! Local and give a crap about you, something I can not say about St Croix...
I explained to him what occurred.
He agreed with you Smokey, it has to touch.
Not that I doubted you, I was checking current procedure.

So I brought him over to the stove they have on display.
Yes, there is a gap between the sensor and the housing.
They have a defect in manufacture..
Now I'm curious what else they screwed up?
New plant making the stoves, understand a tech running the plant.
Oh My!
I will address this with St Croix next.

So I bastardized the holder and made it touch.
Yes, I have a start!

Step one may have been remedied.
Really hope I didn't just jinx it....

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I stopped by the Dealer today, he and I are becoming good friends. Like these guys! Local and give a crap about you, something I can not say about St Croix...
I explained to him what occurred.
He agreed with you Smokey, it has to touch.
Not that I doubted you, I was checking current procedure.

So I brought him over to the stove they have on display.
Yes, there is a gap between the sensor and the housing.
They have a defect in manufacture..
Now I'm curious what else they screwed up?
New plant making the stoves, understand a tech running the plant.
Oh My!
I will address this with St Croix next.

So I bastardized the holder and made it touch.
Yes, I have a start!

Step one may have been remedied.
Really hope I didn't just jinx it....

No crowing while still working only after things run for a while.

 

[RobertNH]

I digress... My apologies..

 

[RobertNH]

Good run last night!
Hit temp shut down, re-started once room cooled!
T-stat program ran and started up the stove before we woke this am and the downstairs was nice and warm.
Program was shutting down as I left to lower the house temp as we're at work.

Seem to be on my way here

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now you can crow softly.

 

[heat seeker]

Pat yourself on the back, but don't sprain your arm - you'll need it in the future.

 

[bogieb]

Good run last night!
Hit temp shut down, re-started once room cooled!
T-stat program ran and started up the stove before we woke this am and the downstairs was nice and warm.
Program was shutting down as I left to lower the house temp as we're at work.

Seem to be on my way here

Good job and nice perseverance!

 

[RobertNH]

Now, I attempted as I had the 'Tech' on the phone to try to get a normal running temperature..
That was like pulling teeth..
After 5 minutes of "it depends on", I finally got to measuring on the end of pull rod...
Still not telling me what it should be (at given heat level, 3 we agreed upon), but agreed 170* was too low.

I've re-tuned the drafts a bit and I'm at 250-270* depending (ha.. had to use the word..).

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now, I attempted as I had the 'Tech' on the phone to try to get a normal running temperature..
That was like pulling teeth..
After 5 minutes of "it depends on", I finally got to measuring on the end of pull rod...
Still not telling me what it should be (at given heat level, 3 we agreed upon), but agreed 170* was too low.

I've re-tuned the drafts a bit and I'm at 250-270* depending (ha.. had to use the word..).

The tech is correct in using the word depending.

You will learn that running a wood fired self polluting burn system is subject to variations that a liquid or gas device is not.

Your burn will continuously degrade over time, how fast (now get this) depends upon what you feed it for ash generators.

 

[RobertNH]

Okay, to a point, but, pulling 120* is low, 450* and I'd probably kick the over-heat sensor.
My feel is that I should be reading 230-280* air coming out.
Now the blower will control how much passes and my feed should be controlled accordingly.

So let me ask you Smokey (and anyone who may wish to add to what could end up being a baseline), if you have an infra-red temperature gun.
If you place it 6-8" away from the end of the cleaner pull rod and shot straight on to the end...
What do you read and at what heat setting are you at?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Okay, to a point, but, pulling 120* is low, 450* and I'd probably kick the over-heat sensor.
My feel is that I should be reading 230-280* air coming out.
Now the blower will control how much passes and my feed should be controlled accordingly.

So let me ask you Smokey (and anyone who may wish to add to what could end up being a baseline), if you have an infra-red temperature gun.
If you place it 6-8" away from the end of the cleaner pull rod and shot straight on to the end...
What do you read and at what heat setting are you at?

I would never point my IR thermometer at the end of the pull rod for the exchanger rake for starters.

As somewhat of an approximation I would put a thermocouple in the center of each (along with an air flow meter) air outlet and then you would discover that each tube gives a different reading for each device depending upon where in the line from the convection or combustion fan it is and how much crud is on the exchanger.

You also need to understand that the volume of air being pumped through each tube is different and that total heat produced is not a function of the temperature of a single spot on the stoves metal surface.

Find a book on heat transfer and bone up on differential equations.

If you cut the combustion air too low the stove could indeed go to overheat, it can also cause various parts to degrade such that they fail early and often. At the other end having too much combustion airflow can send a lot of heat up the flue.

You can measure what ever you want, but what you measure will not likely amount to the heat produced by the stove and further that temperature will slowly degrade as the stove cruds up.

 

[RobertNH]

Best news so far folks!
I came home and it's still running!
WHOA!!

I'm 20hrs into the run and still have 1/4 of the bin full of pellets.
I'm a happier owner!