Someone please help - cant get stove hot enough

[Burd]

Go back a page and read my post

 

[kflorence]

kflorence, don't be terribly discouraged. There are many here who are very capable of helping. Take a deep breath, and relax.

From what I can tell at this point, you have either a poor draft, which could be a result of having a 6 inch liner go into a much larger chimney.....this is a possibility. Ask your installer what size the original chimney "flue tiles" are. They could be 8x8 inch, or maybe 8x10, there are many sizes that have been used over the years.

In any event, it is absolutely the best setup to have a 6 inch liner go from your woodstove insert all the way to the top of your chimney.

Secondly, you may be having a firewood problem. These new stoves are different in how they operate. I don't know if you have or can afford a moisture meter, but having DRY WELL SEASONED WOOD is imperative to using these new EPA rated stoves. They operate best with dry, well seasoned, wood.

If you get your hands on a moisture meter, split a piece or two, or three, of the wood you are burning and see what reading you get. If its 18 to 25% moisture it should be fine, if its showing 25% or above its probably part of the problem.

So, my gut tells me you have 2 things to look at, DRAFT, and DRY WOOD.

Good luck and keep asking questions. I am convinced that a working insert in your situation would simply tickle you to smithereens!

One thing is for sure, this site is excellent. It is extremely nice to know that there are still some people out there willing to help others with nothing but a thank you in return. I will have my husband check the tile sizes and the flue size tomorrow in the daylight. I never wanted a partial liner, I wanted a full liner. The installed said because of the flue angle a convertor was needed. I dont know why he would say that, I was willing to pay for a full liner. Are people that lazy? I am terrified that we will get a chimney fire due to this put the mason said we would not, it is perfectly saft. I specifically went out and bought a bundle of seasoned wood and still only 300 degrees so I dont think it is our wood. We are using red oak and burns nice and flames very quickly. Just no heat above 300.

 

[kflorence]

HA I think you got it. The napolean get there air supply from the front and sweep air on to your glass and starts to burn your load of wood from the front to back. So if your fire isn't getting any oxygen its not getting hot. It takes a will to learn your stove and you are on the right sight to learn every thing you need to. NOW read up on burning season wood and learn as much as you can. Hang around and you'll learn allot from these great guy and girls on here?
Your next Post will be. Am I burning to hot?
NOW FIRE IT UP AND ENJOY
MY2cents
Did the installer charge you for a full liner? If so how much?.I just hope he didn't RIP you off. A good contractor is hard to find these days. Ive have read on here of other people with the same set up as you. Just make sure you have your chimney cleaned and checked Once or twice a year

Well, forgive me but my luck is not that good. I would love to find out all it was were the baffles misaligned. I will fire it up and see what happens but my guess is your will see my new post with the same headache. No, I was not charged for a full liner. They charged me for a liner up 6 feet only. Then they charged me for a convertor connector due to my flue location. Whatever that means. It was roughly without looking at my paperwork $800-for install. Is that ripped off???

 

[kflorence]

It would also be interesting to know whether or not a block-off plate was installed above the insert at the original damper throat of the chimney. This seals off the opening there around the 6" flue pipe to prevent the unecessary loss of heat up the chimney flue around the liner. Rick

I have no idea. I guess I will spend alot of time tomorrow on the phone with the installer to ask these questions. So much information from everyone, I am very overwhelmed at this time.

 

[fossil]

...I am very overwhelmed at this time.

Take a break. Don't be afraid to use the insert. You've found yourself in a good place here. We want to help you all we can, and I know we've inundated you with information and questions. All in good time. Build a fire, have a beverage, relax. Ask some probing questions of your installer, do a little poking around and measuring, and it'll all get sorted out in short order. Rick

 

[kflorence]

While you check moisture in wood I would also get a second opinion on length of liner that you had installed. As others have stated a fully lined chimney is best, and in my opinion, the safest. A neighbor of ours had a chimney fire due to a partial liner instillation that they didn't even know about. They assumed that it went all the way to the top of the chimney. They did get their chimney swept but the the creosote on the chimney was the problem and couldn't be reached by a brush. They now have a full liner. 8-/

Sometimes installers just don't want to do a complete job because it involves more work than they want to do.

P.S. Not on topic but my first insert was the 1101 and I found it to be a very user friendly unit.

Don't know if the dealer told you but the blower on it is located in the back of the firebox and does need to be cleaned or else it will break down. In order to clean it you have to pull your insert out of your fireplace to reach it's housing.

We were burning daily and ours began to malfunction after 1 winter. Dealer we bought from kept telling us that blowers don't break down and not to worry ---probably within normal operation.....Being inexperienced I hung in there until it completely stopped...I found a knowledgeable repairman and learned a lot

Shortly after having it fixed I found this forum and wish I had known about it earlier - much earlier!

I will call the installer tomorrow about the liner. Not sure what they will do about it. Unfortunately, I already paid them and may have to pay again. You mentioned you had this unit, did it heat well? It seems to be user friendly, easy to start which would indicate a good draft so you can see my confusion. The stove is new so dont have to worry about the blower breaking down just yet. That will be on my future list of problems with a wood stove I guess. I agree with you, this forum is exceptional.

 

[kflorence]

...I am very overwhelmed at this time.

Take a break. Don't be afraid to use the insert. You've found yourself in a good place here. We want to help you all we can, and I know we've inundated you with information and questions. All in good time. Build a fire, have a beverage, relax. Ask some probing questions of your installer, do a little poking around and measuring, and it'll all get sorted out in short order. Rick

Thank you. I will do just that. More posts to come tomorrow. Hopefully I will see purchasing an expensive wood stove was the right decision.

 

[Rockey]

Throw that thermometer inside the insert and see if goes over 300. I skimmed through everything and don't know if anyone suggested a new thermometer or not but thats where my troubleshooting would begin. You could test it inside the oven.

 

[jadm]

While you check moisture in wood I would also get a second opinion on length of liner that you had installed. As others have stated a fully lined chimney is best, and in my opinion, the safest. A neighbor of ours had a chimney fire due to a partial liner instillation that they didn't even know about. They assumed that it went all the way to the top of the chimney. They did get their chimney swept but the the creosote on the chimney was the problem and couldn't be reached by a brush. They now have a full liner. 8-/

Sometimes installers just don't want to do a complete job because it involves more work than they want to do.

P.S. Not on topic but my first insert was the 1101 and I found it to be a very user friendly unit.

Don't know if the dealer told you but the blower on it is located in the back of the firebox and does need to be cleaned or else it will break down. In order to clean it you have to pull your insert out of your fireplace to reach it's housing.

We were burning daily and ours began to malfunction after 1 winter. Dealer we bought from kept telling us that blowers don't break down and not to worry ---probably within normal operation.....Being inexperienced I hung in there until it completely stopped...I found a knowledgeable repairman and learned a lot

Shortly after having it fixed I found this forum and wish I had known about it earlier - much earlier!

did it heat well?

On days above 40* it did great. On colder days it had a harder time keeping up - just not big enough for our space.

 

[kflorence]

Throw that thermometer inside the insert and see if goes over 300. I skimmed through everything and don't know if anyone suggested a new thermometer or not but thats where my troubleshooting would begin. You could test it inside the oven.

When you say throw it inside the stove, I would presume that it would catch on fire. It is a new thermometer but I did suspect that maybe it was that as well. Your suggesting I put it in my oven is a great suggestion but unfortunately my oven crapped out on me thanksgiving morning. Unbelievable luck wouldn't you say. Fire is not my friend right now. I have readjusted the baffles and will give it a try.

 

[bfunk13]

" It was roughly without looking at my paperwork $800-for install. Is that ripped off???"

No, thats actually pretty cheap.
My installers wanted twice that, so i did it myself.
There are many post here about your liner situation.
Search for "direct connect" thats what the partial liner is called.
Besides drafting correctly, cleaning this setup is a royal pain.
The whole stove needs to be pulled out to do it right.
Where a full liner is swept from the top down through the stove.
Dont get too discouraged quite yet, i imagine the liner can be added onto with a connector.

Brad

 

[Rockey]

Throw that thermometer inside the insert and see if goes over 300. I skimmed through everything and don't know if anyone suggested a new thermometer or not but thats where my troubleshooting would begin. You could test it inside the oven.

When you say throw it inside the stove, I would presume that it would catch on fire. It is a new thermometer but I did suspect that maybe it was that as well. Your suggesting I put it in my oven is a great suggestion but unfortunately my oven crapped out on me thanksgiving morning. Unbelievable luck wouldn't you say. Fire is not my friend right now. I have readjusted the baffles and will give it a try.

I was joking about throwing it inside the insert. It just seems odd that it runs up to 300 and then hits a wall. Is it binding up? Can you physically move it past 300?

 

[Burd]

Did you light the fire yet? I need to no if it got hotter our not. I hope thet your luck will turns around soon
some times the needle gets stuck on the thermometer.It did to mine at 400 and i had no fire so what I did was put so=me veggie oil on the spring on the back side and moved the neddle back and forth had no problems since. SO is it hot yet? hh:

 

[mayor mcheese]

If you have a meat thermometer it may work on the stove to check against the other one

 

[fossil]

Sometimes the little pointer on those magnetic bimetallics gets mashed a bit and sticks to the face. If that seems to be a problem, then slide the end of a knife or something under the pointer and bend it just a bit out from the face of the thermometer, that should free it up. Rick

 

[kflorence]

" It was roughly without looking at my paperwork $800-for install. Is that ripped off???"

No, thats actually pretty cheap.
My installers wanted twice that, so i did it myself.
There are many post here about your liner situation.
Search for "direct connect" thats what the partial liner is called.
Besides drafting correctly, cleaning this setup is a royal pain.
The whole stove needs to be pulled out to do it right.
Where a full liner is swept from the top down through the stove.
Dont get too discouraged quite yet, i imagine the liner can be added onto with a connector.

Brad

I wish I knew all this before I agreed to a partial liner. I cant imagine pulling the stove out 1-2 times a year for cleaning. Fortunately, the company who installed are also chimney sweepers so they will be familiar. I will have much more info tomorrow once I speak with the company. Thank you.

 

[kflorence]

Throw that thermometer inside the insert and see if goes over 300. I skimmed through everything and don't know if anyone suggested a new thermometer or not but thats where my troubleshooting would begin. You could test it inside the oven.

When you say throw it inside the stove, I would presume that it would catch on fire. It is a new thermometer but I did suspect that maybe it was that as well. Your suggesting I put it in my oven is a great suggestion but unfortunately my oven crapped out on me thanksgiving morning. Unbelievable luck wouldn't you say. Fire is not my friend right now. I have readjusted the baffles and will give it a try.

I was joking about throwing it inside the insert. It just seems odd that it runs up to 300 and then hits a wall. Is it binding up? Can you physically move it past 300?

I was hoping you were kidding. Yes, I can move the needle just fine all the way around. The needle is not pushed down either, seems to be very straight. I few days ago I was able to get the temp to 320 ish, a little past 300 but no higher. So, not stuck at 300. Any other suggestions? I am really starting to believe it is the chimney and the flue set up. very anxious to get installer over hear to fire up and get it a a good high temp...

 

[kflorence]

Sometimes the little pointer on those magnetic bimetallics gets mashed a bit and sticks to the face. If that seems to be a problem, then slide the end of a knife or something under the pointer and bend it just a bit out from the face of the thermometer, that should free it up. Rick

I check the pointer and seems to be fine. I am able to move the needle all the way around so nut stuck. I wish it was only the needle, that would be too easy.

 

[kflorence]

If you have a meat thermometer it may work on the stove to check against the other one

I did that, both thermometers stop at or just above 300. Sometimes only able to get the temp to 250.

 

[kflorence]

Did you light the fire yet? I need to no if it got hotter our not. I hope thet your luck will turns around soon
some times the needle gets stuck on the thermometer.It did to mine at 400 and i had no fire so what I did was put so=me veggie oil on the spring on the back side and moved the neddle back and forth had no problems since. SO is it hot yet? hh:

e
No, I have not fired it up yet. It is 10:30pm and I have the furnace running for the night. Too exhausted to spend time with the stove. I will fire it up in the morning to see if the baffles did the trick. Even if it does I am concerned with the flue set up. Wondering if i should go ahead and insist on a full liner. I will post tomorrow for all of your opinions and help once I know the flue size. Thanks again for your input.

 

[Stevebass4]

i have a partial liner ie a direct connect on mine and i have no trouble getting my insert up to 750 - you need to remove the surround shield (two screws) and look to see if a block off plate was installed

 

[bokehman]

I started with kindling, got a bed of good coals, put in 2-3 small "seasoned" wood, started right up but never went past 300 degrees. continued to add more seasoned wood that I purchased from home depot, 300 degrees. Clear glass, little smoke. It seems from all the great and appreciated replys that the set up may be the problem.

Sounds to me like you aren't putting any wood in it. You need a coalbed 2-3" deep and then load it up with seasoned wood or your Home Depot stuff. You need to put in at least 20 lbs in one hit. Weigh it to make certain. Also if you leave the air open too much the fire will just consume the wood and send the heat straight up the flue so the stove will never get very hot.

 

[kflorence]

i have a partial liner ie a direct connect on mine and i have no trouble getting my insert up to 750 - you need to remove the surround shield (two screws) and look to see if a block off plate was installed

Someone else suggested that as well. Im I looking to see if one was installed? Do I want one installed or not one installed? What is the correct way. Sorry I do not know much or anything about these stoves. I am learning from this site though.

 

[kflorence]

I started with kindling, got a bed of good coals, put in 2-3 small "seasoned" wood, started right up but never went past 300 degrees. continued to add more seasoned wood that I purchased from home depot, 300 degrees. Clear glass, little smoke. It seems from all the great and appreciated replys that the set up may be the problem.

Sounds to me like you aren't putting any wood in it. You need a coalbed 2-3" deep and then load it up with seasoned wood or your Home Depot stuff. You need to put in at least 20 lbs in one hit. Weigh it to make certain. Also if you leave the air open too much the fire will just consume the wood and send the heat straight up the flue so the stove will never get very hot.

I am confident that is not the problem. We start off with kindling, continue adding kindling for 20 minutes or so to get a nice bed of coals. The temp after 20 minutes or so is only around 225 degrees. We then start to put in small logs 2 at a time. We are using red oak and from my understanding red oak is a hard slow burning "hot" wood. Maybe I am wrong about that. Once the logs catch with the draft wide open and the door slightly ajar to catch the flame the temp goes up to 275-300 and thats it. We have tried adding 3 logs but the flames start to go out and we have to keep the draft wide open to keep it going. Again, babysitting the thing from start to finish and 300 is the max it will go. Frustrating!

 

[bokehman]

I am confident that is not the problem. We start off with kindling, continue adding kindling for 20 minutes or so to get a nice bed of coals. The temp after 20 minutes or so is only around 225 degrees. We then start to put in small logs 2 at a time. We are using red oak and from my understanding red oak is a hard slow burning "hot" wood. Maybe I am wrong about that. Once the logs catch with the draft wide open and the door slightly ajar to catch the flame the temp goes up to 275-300 and thats it. We have tried adding 3 logs but the flames start to go out and we have to keep the draft wide open to keep it going. Again, babysitting the thing from start to finish and 300 is the max it will go. Frustrating!

How old is the red oak. It takes forever to season and needs to have been split at least 2 years ago. Also it's not "hot wood", there are lots of woods that produce a lot more instant heat. The features of oak are slow energy release and good coaling properties.