Some smoke in stove is normal right?

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ok, so no OAK, everything at default, small pellets, on high firing rate, in a stove that has been known to generate more BTUs then it maybe should.

It may be outside just the trim ability on your stove so I would check for the existence of any changes that came out after your stove was produced, the dealer should be aware of them.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If I open the damper up a bit more, WC will go to about .20". Maybe these Cubex needs more air...they are HOT pellets for sure.

Cubex are very dense and in general require more air and when properly burned they produce a lot of heat.

 

[steveg_nh]

Correct, no OAK. Stove was manufactured April 2014, so not sure much has changed. I certainly can ask the dealer though. But I will say, this behavior is since the Cubex. I'm maybe 10 bags in with Cubex.

So I wonder if just the air trim adjustment for Cubex won't be enough...Here's two more videos. I waited a little between them so you could see the flame at different feed points (some pellets just dropped vs waiting for the next drop). Air Trim is now 5, feed trim is 1. Still a weaker right side, but wonder if that's just how the pellets are falling and piling up in the burn pot. Fuel type is set to premium pellets, so the auger only turns once every 30 min...

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[corkman]

Hi steve.i have a vistaflame vf55 freestanding stove which is very similar to yours.i just looked at your vids and that is what im dealing with also only mine is doing this on heat level 4.i m running on tstat usually on heat 3,feed trim 1 and air trim 5 and burning somersets which are also a very dense pellet.if i stay on these setting all is good.however if i bump up to heat level 4 i get the big robust flame like you do with smoke in the stove and black smoke exiting the chimney.since i cant make anymore adjustments on the board my next move will be to adjust the auger cover down to reduce the pellet feed.i removed the auger cover plate when i got the stove but i have 2 ton somersets and i ton barefoot to burn still so im gonna re-install the auger cover plate and reduce pellet feed that wat.i'll keep you posted on the results.peace,Corkman

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Correct, no OAK. Stove was manufacturer April 2014, so not sure much has changed. I certainly can ask the dealer though. But I will say, this behavior is since the Cubex. I'm maybe 10 bags in with Cubex.

So I wonder if just the air trim adjustment for Cubex won't be enough...Here's two more videos. I waited a little between them so you could see the flame at different feed points (some pellets just dropped vs waiting for the next drop). Air Trim is now 5, feed trim is 1. Still a weaker right side, but wonder if that's just how the pellets are falling and piling up in the burn pot. Fuel type is set to premium pellets, so the auger only turns once every 30 min...

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Likely that stove is up to date on things, does it have an adjustable auger cover? That is to say does the cover have more than one way it can be attached or an adjustment mechanism? You'll have to look under the pellets in the hopper to see. I also know that a lot of people discovered that the indoor air they had was a little on the stale side and got a much better burn after they set up an OAK, I'm not saying that is the case here but keep it in mind.

The M55 burn engine is inside a lot of "different" brands of pellet roasters.

 

[CaptSpiff]

...

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Is the presence of flame outside the burn pot (lower left when viewing) normal?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Is the presence of flame outside the burn pot (lower left when viewing) normal?

In his case yes, there is a stirrer operating that unit can burn some really atrocious fuels.

 

[Skier76]

I occasionally have that outside the burnpot flame on the left side of my stove as well.

Steve,
The first two videos: The flame looks a bit tall compared to what I see on my stove. What setting where you on? I'm certainly not an expert, but it almost looks like it's running a little lean on the air. The second set of vids looked more like what my stove burns at.

I find my stove has a bit of a left side bias; the flame tends to be taller on that side of the firebox. As mentioned above, I do get a bit of a flame outside of the pot on the left at times. The glass on the right hand top of my stove glass tends to darken first. I have a log kit in there now; that may be part of the cause.

I can't remember, are you running a t-stat? I talked to the tech at the stove shop I bought the stove from. He wasn't a fan of running the stove on 1...which is what the stove will go into when the t-stat stops calling for heat and it's set on high/low. I have mine hooked up to a t-stat (just hooked up a wifi....I'll post a thread on that later) and it'll cycle throughout the day. If I know the stove has been cycling during the day, I'll crank it up to 4 or 5 in the evening. I've been burning wood for 5+ years at our weekend place in Southern VT and I like to run that stove at 400F+ to keep the creosote down. Wood burns in cycles, so I don't get too worried about it coaling down and dropping under 400F. Anyways, I figure a good blast of heat every so often will only help things with the pellet stove.

 

[chken]

Correct, no OAK. Stove was manufacturer April 2014, so not sure much has changed. I certainly can ask the dealer though. But I will say, this behavior is since the Cubex. I'm maybe 10 bags in with Cubex.

So I wonder if just the air trim adjustment for Cubex won't be enough...Here's two more videos. I waited a little between them so you could see the flame at different feed points (some pellets just dropped vs waiting for the next drop). Air Trim is now 5, feed trim is 1. Still a weaker right side, but wonder if that's just how the pellets are falling and piling up in the burn pot. Fuel type is set to premium pellets, so the auger only turns once every 30 min...

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That looks much better to my eye. In particular the first one. The second one is getting just a little tall, but seems okay to me.

I know you've got the manometer. In general, if you change pellets to a different brand with a different tree species, be prepared to have to tweak your settings a little.

 

[steveg_nh]

Thanks all.

The burn on the left side of the firepot happens once and a wihle. It seems like some pellets build up and are pushed to the side a bit when the auger in the firepot turns. They usually burn away once it's been going and stays that way. It's usually only on an ignite from off (when it dumps pellets in to start it up) or when it goes to heat from not calling from heat (when it cranks up the pellet dumping)...

I am using a tstat too, a Skytech 5301p.

So I suppose I could open up the damper to let more air in, but that would raise (or would it be lower) my WC draft reading to about .20" from the recommended 0.17". Is that ok to do? Is that all you do to increase air?

As for no OAK, very true, but the fireplace cleanout is literally right under the stove, and we use to get drafts in the fireplace, so I'm guessing even without an actual vent installed, it's getting good air.

The question really is, am I actually ok then, or should I be adding air?

Thanks for all the help guys, seriously...learning every day, but I like to tinker, so it's a good thing.

Only other thing to note, when I run on setting 4, the flame barely hits the top, but I've found that on those cold nights, for the stove to keep up and maintain in sub 20 degrees, I need setting 5 vs 4...so I've been just running on 5...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You might discover what a lot of folk with the good sized pellet roasters have discovered, the setting on a dwyer is all about air pressure differences and not about oxygen content of the air and that their units burn better and that usually means hotter and in cases where they were having trouble or could not get a good setup on the meter, well things improved there as well because they got the burn system out of the inside the negative pressure in the stove room.

Not saying you have a negative pressure inside the stove room but you could have and not know it. Likewise everything that has a flame (gas cook stoves, candles, the old oil monster, gas water heaters) and even none flame users of oxygen such as people type critters, family pets, and so forth use it and replace it with that much maligned plant food CO2.

 

[ohbix]

comparing your most recent video to the youtube flame characteristics enviro video, yours looks fine. Might even been a tad lighter than the enviro vid flame. I'd be curious to see your flame on levels 1 or 2.

 

[steveg_nh]

I'm still struggling to get this right...When the damper is adjusted so the WC reads within the recommended range, I have a huge curling fire with smoke. To me it looks lazy though, but maybe I don't know what I'm really looking at. I closed the damper quite a bit (I need to get my gauge out), and the smoke has been greatly reduced, the flame is more "full" and not curling as much as it hits the heat exchanger. But no idea what my WC reading is. I need to check. What is the right balance...meaning, you get the flame right, but the air draft isn't in spec...or vice versa...

And when the damper is right, and I have the large flame that curls with some smoke, I still collect a thick black ash on the walls of the stove...It comes off easy, but it just doesn't seem right.

Should I still post videos of flame patterns 1 and 2?

 

[ohbix]

Yes, please post videos. Also what was your heat level on the earlier vids? I have a straight out vent and OAK, and w/ damper fully closed still can't get less neg. than -0.20 in (using manometer vs magnehelic).

 

[Skier76]

I'm still tweaking mine too Steve. I opened my damper earlier this week and feel the burn is cleaner. I'm going to order a mag soon and see what that says. Who knows, using sight vs the instrument may proove more effective.

 

[Bill L]

The second set of videos look pretty much like my stove on 5. The flame leakage under the left side of the burn pot is normal. The first set of videos looked like a poor burn, the flame curling over on the left had orange tips and that is where the soot was coming from. Not sure why your vacuum reading is off spec for the good burn, but I would go with it and not get excited about it. If you are not tripping your hi heat limit switch you should be good.

 

[chken]

I feel that setting the Magnahelic to factory spec is the starting point, then tune to suit your eye.

 

[steveg_nh]

I will get some new videos posted, but just was outside. It's -2 here right now and stove has been cranking. I can't believe it held the whole house to 66 and the room where it's located at 68. Impressive. Anyway, I had dark gray/black soot coming out of the top of the chimney. Definitely dirty. I'll open the damper a touch and see.

 

[steveg_nh]

Made a change, opened it maybe another 20%. No change really in flame or smoke out of chimney. Will give it a few minutes.

 

[steveg_nh]

It's now a light gray smoke out of the chimney (not black), and less than before. Flame in the box looks like same though...hmmm

 

[NYBurner]

Hey Steve,
I have a M55c insert as well, and had a similar issue to you. We set the fire initially with the Mag and I noticed the glass sooted black very quickly. I opened my damper sightly and it cleared that issue up. With my feed trim turned down my fire is almost non existent so I've been running with feed trim on 5. Now with the cold snap in temp outside I've also had to start running my stove on Heat setting 5. Ive also noticed that I have have to run the air trim on 5 and damper wide open as well.

As Smokey mentioned this may be some issue with having no OAK installed..we will see. Every place I spoke with around my area recommended no OAK.....now Im thinking I may need it?

Your second set of videos is more in line with how mine looks. With feed and combustion air trims on 5 and heat on 5 with the damper open, the fire is about a 12-14" jet flaw and very pale yellow, near white. Its like looking in a flashlight and then looking away you get the blurs in your vision. Its still not particularly over hot though as other owners have commented.

I believe a lot of the discrepancy is from pre-baffle plate owners to the newer unit with baffle plates....and perhaps inconsistency with how they were installed from the factory as everyone seems to have different flame heights and trim adjustments. I believe i need to open mine up slightly to allow more pellets as with feed trim at 3 my flaw is very small....or fluctuates size significantly.

 

[Bill L]

I had my dealer open the auger plate cover a notch a week after the install. I was having problems keeping the flame up initially, but that problem was actually due to a thermostat switch issue. I never moved it back, and usually run at 3 on both feed and comb trim at the factory spec. If you're maxing out the trim you might try opening the cover a little

 

[bcarton]

Steve,

I'm a novice here too, but I have yet to see any smoke at all coming out of my vent - just convection waves. Not sure where in southern NH you're located, but a call to an experienced, certified tech might be a good investment. A 55K BTU stove would make my whole first floor unbearably warm, even last night. I hope you get it sorted out, energy costs here in NH are just about the highest in the nation, regardless of what you use.

Brian

 

[steveg_nh]

Thanks guys. I guess I can open the damper more and see what happens. I was shocked to actually find some soot droppings on my deck (chimney is next to deck, with top of stack being about 25' higher than deck).

I have to run my feed trim on 1 with the cubex pellets I'm putting through right now. The stove looks great on heat setting 4. When I go to 5, it's when I feel like all hell breaks loose. The dark black, sticky ash left behind in the firebox tells me this is a very dirty burn. I wonder if I should turn down the auger feed in the back (slide the stove out). Thing is on heat setting 1, I think the fire might go out...as it's not very big at all when on setting 1.

NYBurner, after you made your adjustments with damper wide open, did you recheck draft with a mag? If so, I'm curious what it was. And I too was told No Oak needed/wanted by 3 people. Weird. Maybe they just don't want to deal with installing it?

And as I understand it, the damper is the exhaust of the stove, not the actual combustion air, right? Does opening the damper really affect combustion? The air intake, where the OAK would install, if you had one, affects air for combustion right? If you don't have one, that isn't blocked off (the intake vent) right, it is just open but not connected to anything?

 

[NYBurner]

Hey Steve - I believe you are correct, the damper is exhaust flow. The Combustion intake is not restricted with no OAK. I have not re-checked with a mag gauge, I've been using the method linked by bcarton. I opened the damper until I see no more black "wisps"......which seems a little independent of combustion of air trim.

Im still thinking of opening my auger restricter plate up one notch to get more heat out as suggested in another post by flynfrfun here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-m55-cast-fs-flame-pattern.92422/

Currently my unit pumps decent heat on 3, but in the single digit cold I have to run it in 5 all of the time. I believe its more the difference of those with adjusted or no restricter plate that we see comments of never having to run above heat setting 3.