Selecting a Boiler - Please Share Your Experience

[flyingcow]

Just being a haunt. Its what I do best. I know you said one if the coldest. You WG guys are touchy. FWIW until you've seen -54 on the thermometer you don't know cold. This happened about 20yrs ago, before Al Gore talked about global warming. BTW this has been coldest winters in a long time

 

[Gasifier]

Just being a haunt. Its what I do best. I know you said one if the coldest. You WG guys are touchy. FWIW until you've seen -54 on the thermometer you don't know cold. This happened about 20yrs ago, before Al Gore talked about global warming. BTW this has been coldest winters in a long time

Ya, ya, ya. I would be willing to bet we have had more colder nights here than you have at your place this season and most seasons. And I hope I never see -54 on the thermometer! So there!

 

[Fred61]

My dad can beat up your dad hahaha. I've had more cold nights than you. No we get more cold nights, etc.

One thing's for sure. You've both had the same number of nights.

 

[flyingcow]

BTW..... the -54f was on a day I made my kids walk barefoot up a hill to school.....And they liked it!!


Carprofessor....sorry we got your thread sidetracked.

 

[Gasifier]

BTW..... the -54f was on a day I made my kids walk barefoot up a hill to school.....And they liked it!!
Carprofessor....sorry we got your thread sidetracked.

What's this "we" ? Mouse in your pocket again?

 

[Vizsla]

Wow, yeah, touchy and stretchy........

I'm surprised to hear the vedo is cheaper than the Econo. Real surprised

 

[henfruit]

There is a Vigas dealer in Brockville. Ted Kestor

 

[Coal Reaper]

theres not much to a vedo, one of the reasons i like it so much. only two pieces of refractory, simple contols (zero for maple), very easy to clean, a breeze to start, negative draft, heats up quick since the water jacket is small, insulated well. what else, oh yeah its really easy to clean. and lets not forget the gasification window!

 

[jebatty]

When I look back at what motivated my decision, and I barely had any knowledge other than an OWB was not even a consideration, I investigated the Garn primarily, but then saw a Tarm Solo Plus 40 at a trade show. That led to study on the Tarm-type gasification boiler with storage. My initial install was in my barn-shop, and I felt pretty sure that in the future I would build a new shop, so three things caused me to buy the Tarm over the Garn: 1) I would be moving the boiler/storage in the future and I wanted to be able to handle this my self without hiring someone with big equipment; thus the Garn had a big minus because I would not be able to move it myself; 2) a Tarm dealer was close to me, was the dealer who had the Tarm at the trade show, and the dealer offered me a good deal including delivery, and that sealed the deal; and 3) the Tarm had an excellent reputation and had been in the market for a long time.

Very glad I made the decision I did, as I now have a new shop, I moved the boiler (had help with the 1000 gal LP tank storage), and the Tarm has been trouble free since its first winter in 2007-08. Wood burned is nearly all pine, plus some aspen.

My first storage was 3 - 275 gallon used oil tanks, open storage -- big mistake with the oil tanks combined with my inexperience. Then the 1000 gal LP tank, could not have made a better choice, and if possible I would recommend closed, pressurized storage over open, unpressurized storage. A very important reason is that the system is sealed and maintenance free, but even more important I can load storage up to 193F and with my in-floor radiant which uses mixed down 100F water, I can get at least two days of heat and burn every other day, even with temps into the -30 to 40F range, and in milder weather easily get 3-5 days between burns. Whether you can do this will depend on your heat load; my heat load during winter ranges roughly between 10,000 to 18,000 btuh maximum.

I learned many things the hard way, so do your best to make sure that you do the install right the first time: hydronic heat is all about moving hot water, flow rates, pump head, properly sized plumbing and circulators, all to meet the required heat load economically and efficiently. While this isn't rocket science, doing it right takes a lot of knowledge or a whole lot of luck, something with which I was not blessed. I have re-done my system 3 times and now it is about right, although this summer I may redo and simplify the extra controls I added for my own convenience and for purposes of monitoring, data logging and lots of reporting on this forum.

Good luck, you certainly seem headed in the right direction.

 

[arngnick]

Aside from coming up with the $$ for customs & freight - no issues. I sent a bank draft to Smokeless for everything that included that, and it showed at my driveway a week later. I even think it got here before my bank draft got there, actually. So no worries from my experience in such a long distance large transaction with them. There were no other surprise bills that showed up for things like extra taxes - except for the big exchange hit at the bank when you go get your bank draft. All told for customs, freight, and the exchange hit when I bought (I think our dollar was close to 0.95 at the time), I think amounted to pretty close to an extra $2k for those.

Yes, boilers with fans can use shorter chimneys - that's a possible hangup with mine, you need a tall chimney. Mine is 30', I likely could get by with a shorter one, but I'm not sure how much shorter - maybe not a whole lot. I think I have my baro adjusted to max draft, and it holds steady at 0.1" when burning. Spec is 0.08". I didn't do any pipe joint sealing, and have what amounts to 3-90s from the back of the boiler to where it goes straight up the chimney.

No coils, piped direct as part of the near-boiler stuff. I just picked my tanks up at the scrap yard, and delivered them to my pro welders shop along with fittings I picked up at the supplier. I marked them up with a marker re. what to put where, and left them a sketch. I have only one word of advice on that process - try to make sure the fittings you get are NOT cast fittings. My supplier had cast mixed in all in the same bins, I found out later. My untrained eye couldn't tell the difference. My welder had to come to my place with his portable to fix a couple pinholes. OK, two words of advice - use a pro welder who does pressure work. My guy was, and he's ASME certified - he stood behind his (or I guess his guys actually) work, and it paid off in the end. OK, three - keep new holes & fittings to a minimum.

I have owned 2 gassers and I could not agree more with this post! I am very satisfied with my Natural draft Vedolux. My wife operates it with ease and it heats our house very well even during this cold winter. My chimney is the minimum reccomended height and I also see stacktemps ~200*C

 

[Carprofessor]

When I look back at what motivated my decision, and I barely had any knowledge other than an OWB was not even a consideration, I investigated the Garn primarily, but then saw a Tarm Solo Plus 40 at a trade show. That led to study on the Tarm-type gasification boiler with storage. My initial install was in my barn-shop, and I felt pretty sure that in the future I would build a new shop, so three things caused me to buy the Tarm over the Garn: 1) I would be moving the boiler/storage in the future and I wanted to be able to handle this my self without hiring someone with big equipment; thus the Garn had a big minus because I would not be able to move it myself; 2) a Tarm dealer was close to me, was the dealer who had the Tarm at the trade show, and the dealer offered me a good deal including delivery, and that sealed the deal; and 3) the Tarm had an excellent reputation and had been in the market for a long time.

Very glad I made the decision I did, as I now have a new shop, I moved the boiler (had help with the 1000 gal LP tank storage), and the Tarm has been trouble free since its first winter in 2007-08. Wood burned is nearly all pine, plus some aspen.

My first storage was 3 - 275 gallon used oil tanks, open storage -- big mistake with the oil tanks combined with my inexperience. Then the 1000 gal LP tank, could not have made a better choice, and if possible I would recommend closed, pressurized storage over open, unpressurized storage. A very important reason is that the system is sealed and maintenance free, but even more important I can load storage up to 193F and with my in-floor radiant which uses mixed down 100F water, I can get at least two days of heat and burn every other day, even with temps into the -30 to 40F range, and in milder weather easily get 3-5 days between burns. Whether you can do this will depend on your heat load; my heat load during winter ranges roughly between 10,000 to 18,000 btuh maximum.

I learned many things the hard way, so do your best to make sure that you do the install right the first time: hydronic heat is all about moving hot water, flow rates, pump head, properly sized plumbing and circulators, all to meet the required heat load economically and efficiently. While this isn't rocket science, doing it right takes a lot of knowledge or a whole lot of luck, something with which I was not blessed. I have re-done my system 3 times and now it is about right, although this summer I may redo and simplify the extra controls I added for my own convenience and for purposes of monitoring, data logging and lots of reporting on this forum.

Good luck, you certainly seem headed in the right direction.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your experience. I have learned a lot and used your advice and comments to make a purchase. I have purchased a Veolux 37. I have spoken with Dean at Smokeless heat who was very helpful in setting up my design. I also contacted Ted Kestor who is supplying 2-500 gal propane tanks that are being delivered today. I have been taking a few pictures along the way and will start a new thread to post the project. Check back here for the link.

Why did I select the Vedolux? Well, I looked at a number of different units, all with their good points. The Greenwood had a bad reputation, but I think the new generation might be better. But If couldn't get past the bad rep. I looked at the Empyre. I liked that it was made in Canada and there was a local dealer. I went out to see it in operation but got turned off when I found it was made by the same company that made the Greenwood (ProFab). As I learned more, I thought it was important to have a pressurized system and the Greenwood and Empyre were both open systems.

I was impressed by the Econoburn. As someone else put it, they are built like a tank. I was serious about getting one and considered driving to their factory to pick it up.

Then I came upon the Varmebaronen Vedolux. Initially, I was unsure about purchasing a European model. What sold me on the unit was a few things;

1. Although not completely made of 1/4" steel like the Econoburn,their literature stated that the important parts were.
2. The induced draft greatly simplified the operation and chimney requirements.
3. So many of you said that thermal storage was important - the Vedolux requires that you have at least 600 gal.
4. Cleaning the heat exchanger is done from the front of the unit, though a door. No need to remove any covers or replace gaskets and can be done in minutes. This was an impressive design consideration and made me confident the boiler was well designed.

Thanks again to everyone who provided opinions / advice. I will place a link here in a few days to a new thread if you are interested in following along with the project. I hope you will comment and provide further insights there.

 

[Coal Reaper]

great choice!
are you welding the tanks yourself? if so, use weldolets. i used cast nipples and they were a pain to weld. and make provisions to screen rust flakes (wyes), drain tanks, air elimination, and valves everywhere cant hurt.
you also dont want to use PEX from boiler to storage.
idk if there is anything else i would have done different...
have fun!

 

[maple1]

Great choice.

The easy-to-clean aspect is one you will truly appreciate after the 'new car' appeal is gone & it all becomes a heating task - and one that is often over looked. These things don't even have any door gaskets - another thing to not worry about in the future.

No worries about the cross-border & distance thing. I think mine showed up at the end of the driveway before my bank draft made it to Dean.

Keep us posted!

 

[Carprofessor]

great choice!
are you welding the tanks yourself? if so, use weldolets. i used cast nipples and they were a pain to weld. and make provisions to screen rust flakes (wyes), drain tanks, air elimination, and valves everywhere cant hurt.
you also dont want to use PEX from boiler to storage.
idk if there is anything else i would have done different...
have fun!

Thanks for the advice. Ted Kestor supplied the tanks with the fitting welded and pressure checked. They were put in place yesterday. Today I am sourcing fittings to make the connections. The tanks are sitting on a 4x8 concrete pad that is 6" thick. I have some concern that their may be settling and therefore some change in position between the storage tanks and the rest of the system. For that reason I was planning on using Pex. What is the concern with doing this?

I had thought about debris in the boiler water. Is there a filter / screen that is commonly used?

 

[Coal Reaper]

my pad is 6" thick but 25x50'. my tanks are vertical on 3/8" steel 9sqft bases, with 5 points of contact to that 3/8" plate. no cracking or settling. PEX is rated for 200*F. Boiler has potential to heat up water to a greater temperature than that. most dont push thier boilers that hard, but there is the potential if you accidentally overload it or one of the safety measures fails. PEX is acceptable for storage to house run and return to boiler. a min X' (12') is recomended pipe after leaving the boiler. i ran all copper from boiler to storage, and a few feet on the return just so it looked nice. i have pushed my boiler just over 200*F.
Wye-strainers for debris. in a year and a half i have yet to clean mine out as the flow seems fine still. i will try to get to them before this coming heating season. i have one right before water geos into boiler and another right after water leaves storage to go to house. i did flush my tanks a couple times before filling them up for good.
get a thread started with some pictures as you go! that way others can comment as you go and give advice if needed. everybody here has opinions but we all want you to be warm come winter time!

 

[Carprofessor]

I have started a new thread with pictures. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/vedolux-37-install.129809/#post-1747729

 

[duramaxman05]

I have a heartstone heritage on out living room. It does very well until this past winter. So it got me thinking about an outdoor wood boiler. I just got my new portage and main bl2840. All I can say about it is wow. Built very well. The attention to detail is awesome. I don't have it installed yet. This is the first time ever I will be ready for winter. I'm curious to see how it is going to do. I don't think I will have any problems because they are built in piney, Manitoba Canada. One of the coldest places in Canada. So if its good enough for there brutally cold winters, Should be just fine down here. I did a lot of research on outdoor wood boilers. To me the portage and main is built better and is way simpler. No electronic stuff to go out other than the digital aquastat.