Sediment filter recommendations?

[mellow]

I understand the grandfather was a plumber comment, so was mine. I have had my fair share of working on copper pipes and will take PVC (NOT PEX) over it any day. Sure the pvc purple primer hurts like hell when you get it in a cut, but not having to deal with a blow torch upside down in a very tight crawl space surrounded by flammable crap is something I would rather not do anymore.

@Highbeam Do you have a pic of how you mounted your twist to clean? I am thinking about just using 3/8" lags and mounting a 2x4 on the wall to screw into with some pvc pipe as spacers and washers.

 

[Ashful]

To each their own! I'm forever working in old houses and up against wood beams and floors, but it's never a major issue with a thermal blanket, heat shield, or even a scrap of drywall backer.

PVC (and even CPVC) supply lines scare me, and have known reliability issues. My mother lives in a development where the sprinkler systems were all plumbed in PVC 20 years ago, and they're now failing like crazy all over the development. I use PVC for drains, including the drain from my water softener and some long dehumidifier pump drains, but that's about it.

All the plastic lines (PVC, CPVC, PEX, etc.) have huge cost advantage, to which they owe their popularity. But I'm not building section 8 / HUD housing, and I can afford copper in my own home. Since I'm not a pro trying to save a few minutes or dollars to offer the lowest bid, I really see zero valid justification for using anything less than copper for most of my own DIY applications.

Others can disagree, which is fine, this is just what works best for me.

 

[Highbeam]

I understand the grandfather was a plumber comment, so was mine. I have had my fair share of working on copper pipes and will take PVC (NOT PEX) over it any day. Sure the pvc purple primer hurts like hell when you get it in a cut, but not having to deal with a blow torch upside down in a very tight crawl space surrounded by flammable crap is something I would rather not do anymore.

@Highbeam Do you have a pic of how you mounted your twist to clean? I am thinking about just using 3/8" lags and mounting a 2x4 on the wall to screw into with some pvc pipe as spacers and washers.

Here’s a pic. I used pvc as a spacer and lags into the wall (and 6x8 post) behind it. You need clearance to spin the head. The brown coating on the inside of the clear bowl is iron/manganese from the raw water. The two vinyl tubes hanging over the Lakos mount are the drain for the lakos which is clear and the backwash drain for my manganese oxide filter which is what I, and the local utilities, use to remove iron and manganese with spectacular efficiency. No subscription needed, mine has been online for over 10 years.

I really like pex. Doesn’t get brittle like pvc and the fittings are more trustworthy and adjustable. Soldering and copper are something I don’t want anywhere in my home and fortunately the building industry has stopped using it in residential work in my region.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I understand the grandfather was a plumber comment, so was mine. I have had my fair share of working on copper pipes and will take PVC (NOT PEX) over it any day. Sure the pvc purple primer hurts like hell when you get it in a cut, but not having to deal with a blow torch upside down in a very tight crawl space surrounded by flammable crap is something I would rather not do anymore.

@Highbeam Do you have a pic of how you mounted your twist to clean? I am thinking about just using 3/8" lags and mounting a 2x4 on the wall to screw into with some pvc pipe as spacers and washers.

What drives your dislike for PEX?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

So what's funny is that our basement has 4 sections, with each newer one being worse than the section that precedes it. You're looking at "phase 3", built in the 1890's, with "phase 1" dating back to 1734 and "phase 2" being 1775. The older sections have a nice ceiling height, and are clean and finished, whereas that part is just a boiler room.

What's even more bizarre is that this room has water bubbling up out of the floor in heavy rain, but the older part dug a foot deeper stays dry. Go figure. I'm guessing there's some old well or cistern buried there, which has since been covered by a newer addition.

My prior house, 1877 center hall 2-story Victorian, had the Blair Witch basement. A group of us went to see that movie together, and every one of them looked at me after that basement scene near the end, and said "that's your house!" I'll admit, the similarity was frightening.

Similar story here, three sections. The original house, late 1700's and two subsequent additions. The first addition was rubblestone and mud, like the original, I believe in the early 1800's, and the second, stick built with plaster and lath, probably the 1930s or 40s. All sections were built for folks when they were much smaller. The latest addition has a horrible dirt crawlspace, with no access to the infrastructure. The floor must be removed to get to the pipes and electric. But I still love the place!

 

[mellow]

What drives your dislike for PEX?

My parents old house and some others I have worked on with it, the pex was always swelling and cracking which leads to leaking, especially on the hot water side. I would replace what I could with cpvc/pvc and sharkbites and call it a day.

 

[Highbeam]

My parents old house and some others I have worked on with it, the pex was always swelling and cracking which leads to leaking, especially on the hot water side. I would replace what I could with cpvc/pvc and sharkbites and call it a day.

There was a product used for awhile before modern pex. Polybutylne or something like that. It was thinner and chlorine attacked it causing actual failures. If that's what your parents had then yeah, that sucks but it's not pex.

 

[Ashful]

...on the hot water side. I would replace what I could with cpvc/pvc and sharkbites and call it a day.

Unless something has changed, PVC is not approved or recommended for use on hot water, it will fail. CPVC is approved for DHW in most places, if you're looking for the absolute cheapest solution, just don't mix up the fittings! Most systems plumbed in CPVC still use regular PVC fittings, and that's where they fail.

The maximum permissible temperature for PVC is around 140F, which is right about where most people set their water heater.

 

[mellow]

Unless something has changed, PVC is not approved or recommended for use on hot water, it will fail. CPVC is approved for DHW in most places, if you're looking for the absolute cheapest solution, just don't mix up the fittings! Most systems plumbed in CPVC still use regular PVC fittings, and that's where they fail.

The maximum permissible temperature for PVC is around 140F, which is right about where most people set their water heater.

Well (har har) aware of cpvc/pvc differences.

 

[mellow]

There was a product used for awhile before modern pex. Polybutylne or something like that. It was thinner and chlorine attacked it causing actual failures. If that's what your parents had then yeah, that sucks but it's not pex.

Good point, it was and on city water to boot. Never touched pex since then after dealing with that.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Good point, it was and on city water to boot. Never touched pex since then after dealing with that.

I hear ya. I never experienced anything like the failure you experienced, but my PEX work is all less than 10 years old. I almost did everything in pvc/cpvc before I figured out the PEX thing. I also try to use plastic fittings everywhere I can, because my water attacks the brass fittings, including shark bites. Pvc glued fittings are easier in tight spaces compared to the crimped PEX fittings, that's where I use the shark bites, but the shark bites are pricy, and I have a hell of a time removing them.

 

[mellow]

I have a hell of a time removing them.

I ponied up the cash and got the fancy SB pro removal tool and threw away all those orange horseshoes they send with them, life is much better now. I love SB's, I probably won't love them in another 10 years when they all start to fail, but that will be a problem for future me

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I ponied up the cash and got the fancy SB pro removal tool and threw away all those orange horseshoes they send with them, life is much better now. I love SB's, I probably won't love them in another 10 years when they all start to fail, but that will be a problem for future me

I'll have to find one of the sb removal tools. I save plenty by doing almost everything myself, I can splurge on this. I didn't even know such a thing existed. Thanks for the tip!

 

[mellow]

Got the Twist II Clean installed this weekend, had to find a spot where I could put a bucket to catch the output, I still need to add some bracing but its up and running. Will see how it does, I went with the blue filter so it has the finest mesh to catch everything, water pressure was not affected so far.

 

[Highbeam]

Got the Twist II Clean installed this weekend, had to find a spot where I could put a bucket to catch the output, I still need to add some bracing but its up and running. Will see how it does, I went with the blue filter so it has the finest mesh to catch everything, water pressure was not affected so far.

View attachment 305558

Spray into a bucket? How about connecting a discharge drain line? The outlet is threaded isn’t it?

 

[mellow]

It does and I might use it down the road, but for now spraying into a bucket so I can easily analyze the output was my main goal.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Update-

After much analysis paralysis, finally settled on the Frizzlife JG400. Chose this one because it has a backwash feature and a scraper, which means it doesn't need to be disassembled to clean it (nearly as often, I hope). Also came with an integrated pressure gauge. Finally, it was very attractively priced, at about $40.

Online reviews for the filter were also good.

Right out of the box, two downer observations:. First, it was advertised as having 20 gpm flow, but on the box it says 17.5 gpm (12.5% less). Second, the pressure gauge is in Bars rather than PSI.

The pressure gauge is annoying, but nothing we can't live with, just need to keep a conversion chart handy to know where we are at, psi-wise. The flow number may be a deal breaker, if it impacts our pressure too much. I'm just gonna install it as soon as the arctic blast is over, and see how it goes.

 

[Ashful]

Pressure drop at 20 gpm? Most houses will do fine at 10 GPM, but you’ll not want much pressure drop at that flow, unless you’re on city water with pressure to spare.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Pressure drop at 20 gpm? Most houses will do fine at 10 GPM, but you’ll not want much pressure drop at that flow, unless you’re on city water with pressure to spare.

That's good to know.

I've been trying to keep as few bottlenecks in the system as possible, and I predict that we'll need to scrape and backwash it pretty frequently, to prevent this from bottlenecking.

If it doesn't work out, it'll be an easy swap out for one with more throughput, and it's easy to add a pressure gauge that is in psi.

Every new project is a learning experience!

 

[Highbeam]

Pressure drop at 20 gpm? Most houses will do fine at 10 GPM, but you’ll not want much pressure drop at that flow, unless you’re on city water with pressure to spare.

I agree , regular water meters to houses only flow 10 gpm. 17.5 is plenty.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

14.504 lbs per square inch per Bar, for the pressure gauge conversion. My high school physics/chemistry is getting a little rusty.

 

[Ashful]

Bar is an odd UOM for a water filter, surprised they're using that. I use bars everyday, both for calculating ionization voltage breakdown and for making thrice-daily espresso, but only ever used psi (or kPa) for residential water pressure. That gauge actually looks like it came off of a home espresso machine, it's about the right range (most work happens at 6.0 - 10.5 bar).

If the gauge has a common thread (eg. 1/4" NPT), you could probably open the housing and just swap it out, I guess.

 

[mellow]

I still have yet to backwash the Twist 2 clean, it has some stuff on the filter but not enough yet to warrant a flush, I am surprised and glad I got the blue high mesh filter.

 

[Ashful]

I've become a fan of the big 20 inch "big blue" filter I'm running with 5 micron pleated paper elements. It has 1" NPT in/out, and even at the end of my yearly filter change interval, the thing still shows less than 2-3 psi max drop at 10 GPM. I was having issues with mineral deposits causing irrigation valves to not close fully prior to installing this, a constant frustration causing me a lot of extra work every summer, but this filter completely resolved that issue. I can see from it's orange color when I remove it, that it's catching a lot of iron which would otherwise end up deposited in my porcelain sinks or in my water softener media, which makes me happy.

Of course, your water tests may show you need more aggressive methods, always go by the test results.

Mind your pressure drops, when choosing your filtration system. You're already losing 8 - 10 psi static pressure, just making it from your well switch in the basement to a second-floor shower head, perhaps another 4 psi to a third-floor. Then in 1/2" pipe at 2.5 gpm you 0.4 psi for each foot of straight line, adding another foot of line equivalence for each elbow. If your shower is at one end of the house and your pump switch at the other, with two floors between them and ten elbows in the path, you could have 60 feet of line equivalence, dropping 24 psi atop the 8 - 10 psi static drop for the lift from basement to 2nd floor shower. Meaning, if your well runs 30 - 50 psi, your shower head could run from wimpy to dry, before even adding filter losses. Even at 40 - 60 psi, it's going to make for some unsatisfying showers and big cold/hot swings when other appliances cycle.

Walk into most older plumbers houses, and you'll be astounded by the size of the plumbing they use for their own stuff. I ran 1-1/4 into the house from the well, and right up to where I split off in 1" (irrigation) and 3/4" (water softener). Each bathroom or kitchen at any distance from the boiler room is run in 3/4" copper, only splitting off to 1/2" at each individual appliance. It takes longer to get hot water to an appliance, due to the volume of water in the pipe, but I'm able to keep my 2nd floor pressure drops below 15 psi when I'm in the shower and my wife turns on a sink in the same bathroom suite. If we have two or three showers running at the same time, it's no problem if someone flushes a toilet in another part of the house.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I've become a fan of the big 20 inch "big blue" filter I'm running with 5 micron pleated paper elements. It has 1" NPT in/out, and even at the end of my yearly filter change interval, the thing still shows less than 2-3 psi max drop at 10 GPM. I was having issues with mineral deposits causing irrigation valves to not close fully prior to installing this, a constant frustration causing me a lot of extra work every summer, but this filter completely resolved that issue. I can see from it's orange color when I remove it, that it's catching a lot of iron which would otherwise end up deposited in my porcelain sinks or in my water softener media, which makes me happy.

Of course, your water tests may show you need more aggressive methods, always go by the test results.

Mind your pressure drops, when choosing your filtration system. You're already losing 8 - 10 psi static pressure, just making it from your well switch in the basement to a second-floor shower head, perhaps another 4 psi to a third-floor. Then in 1/2" pipe at 2.5 gpm you 0.4 psi for each foot of straight line, adding another foot of line equivalence for each elbow. If your shower is at one end of the house and your pump switch at the other, with two floors between them and ten elbows in the path, you could have 60 feet of line equivalence, dropping 24 psi atop the 8 - 10 psi static drop for the lift from basement to 2nd floor shower. Meaning, if your well runs 30 - 50 psi, your shower head could run from wimpy to dry, before even adding filter losses. Even at 40 - 60 psi, it's going to make for some unsatisfying showers and big cold/hot swings when other appliances cycle.

Walk into most older plumbers houses, and you'll be astounded by the size of the plumbing they use for their own stuff. I ran 1-1/4 into the house from the well, and right up to where I split off in 1" (irrigation) and 3/4" (water softener). Each bathroom or kitchen at any distance from the boiler room is run in 3/4" copper, only splitting off to 1/2" at each individual appliance. It takes longer to get hot water to an appliance, due to the volume of water in the pipe, but I'm able to keep my 2nd floor pressure drops below 15 psi when I'm in the shower and my wife turns on a sink in the same bathroom suite. If we have two or three showers running at the same time, it's no problem if someone flushes a toilet in another part of the house.

I started with the "go big" philosophy, then after all the ridiculous research I did on all the available options, I decided $40 was a reasonable bet to make on something that'll be easy to swap out. As there are only two adults and one bathroom in this spartan house, I'm on the very low end of the amount of water pipes in a typical house.

One thing for sure, if the shower pressure is anemic, I'll be sending it quickly back to the big A to trade it in for one of the bigger filters.

The white filter cartridges turn black from this part of the water table, not red. I'm not sure what the black stuff is, but the chunks that get caught in the faucet aerators and hose screens are just bigger chunks of the black stuff.