Secondaries???

[oldspark]

10% in Arizona for well seasoned wood is normal.

 

[Sprinter]

My chimney is 16 feet high. Outdoor temps at the time of the fire were 55-58; not that cold but I wanted to finish my burn-in fires while I could still keep the doors/windows open, and before it got really cold.

You probably don't have a problem at all. With the warmish temps outside, the draft may have been poor, as begreen mentioned. Also, the secondary burning is not always that visible. The kind of fireworks you see in some of the pics aren't that common. Don't be concerned if you don't see them all the time. If the stove top is above, say, 450 or so, you can be pretty sure the secondaries are functioning.

10% in Arizona for well seasoned wood is normal.

Yeah, when I was there, my own moisture content felt like 10%...

 

[oldspark]

For the OP, how are you running your stove, did you reduce the primary air after the stove was up to temp, that's usually when you will see the secondaries come to life.

 

[Trooper]

For the OP, how are you running your stove, did you reduce the primary air after the stove was up to temp, that's usually when you will see the secondaries come to life.

I did, but probably not at the right point in time. And when I did the primary flames started to die down significantly. The manual says to expect a lazy flame once dialed down, so maybe I should have kept the air reduced.

 

[oldspark]

Dont reduce it all at once, do it in stages.

 

[begreen]

What altitude are you at? The chimney height requirement goes up with the altitude. 58F is pretty warm still. I think you will see better performance as the temps drop.

 

[Dix]

Try placing the thermometer on the door frame, over the hinge side.

IMHO, much more accurate readings on an insert.

 

[n3pro]

n3pro - are you saying that you have achieved secondaries under 500F as measured inside the firebox, or stove top?

Stove top, as I said I've never seen a thermometer inside the firebox.

 

[oldspark]

What are you starting your fire with, the Oak, you may find it easier to get secondaries with a less dense wood plus the fire will stay going better when you turn down the air, Oak really likes a nice bed of coals due to its density.

 

[Ashful]

And what does the meter show when you lay the pins on the palm of your hand? It should be in the mid 30's.

Skin contact resistance will vary from roughly 3 k-ohm to 3 Meg-ohm, depending on how dry or sweaty you are. Since a wood moisture content meter is a resistance meter, I can't imagine getting very consistent readings on the palm of the hand, from one person to the next.

 

[Sprinter]

Skin contact resistance will vary from roughly 3 k-ohm to 3 Meg-ohm, depending on how dry or sweaty you are. Since a wood moisture content meter is a resistance meter, I can't imagine getting very consistent readings on the palm of the hand, from one person to the next.

I know, and it's a good point. It was just intended to see if the meter was even functioning right. Every time I've seen a thread on the subject, just about everyone said it was in the low to mid 30's on them. Actually, I was surprised that it's as consistent as it is. As you correctly point out, it's not a calibration method at all.

 

[begreen]

I suspect it won't work too well on some gamblers and bankers.

 

[Sprinter]

Or politicians.

 

[oldspark]

Skin contact resistance will vary from roughly 3 k-ohm to 3 Meg-ohm, depending on how dry or sweaty you are. Since a wood moisture content meter is a resistance meter, I can't imagine getting very consistent readings on the palm of the hand, from one person to the next.

peal back the skin to get a better reading

 

[Trooper]

What altitude are you at? The chimney height requirement goes up with the altitude. 58F is pretty warm still. I think you will see better performance as the temps drop.

begreen, I am at about 5700 feet. I think you are right about better results once the temps go down.
I am going to do a little more research on the dynamics of draft as well.

 

[begreen]

Vermont Castings stoves are somewhat draft sensitive. According to their chart you would need 22ft of chimney for the equivalent of 16ft at sea level. If secondary performance doesn't improve with cooler temps of 45 or below, I would consider adding more chimney.

 

[BrotherBart]

I say it a few times every year. Blazing secondary gas looking stuff is a parlor trick. If the stove is heating your house and there isn't smoke coming out of the chimney, that stove is getting it done.

I cringe thinking about how many people overfire stoves looking for a light-show.

Been there, done that.

 

[Trooper]

What are you starting your fire with, the Oak, you may find it easier to get secondaries with a less dense wood plus the fire will stay going better when you turn down the air, Oak really likes a nice bed of coals due to its density.

You may have a point there, old spark. I used a couple of small juniper splits N-S with some kindling criss-crossed on top of them. I took a chunk of a Super Cedar (maybe a quarter), put it undeneath the kindling and it got everything going nicely.
After it was going well I started layering the oak on top. Maybe next time I will try more of the softer woods before kicking it up a notch.

 

[Sprinter]

The chimney height requirement goes up with the altitude.

Interesting. I just did a quick search. This site: (broken link removed to http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/design-considerations-for-the-excel-chimney) from Excel indicates that for every 1000 ft elevation, you should add 4% to the minimum sea level height of 12'. That would put the OP's minimum at about 15' assuming no tee's, bends or horizontal runs. A little better than I have here with 13' at 750' elevation. My draft is a bit marginal especially on warm days and a little smoke leakage when I open the door too quickly, but still functional.

Trooper, do you have any offsets, horizontal runs or tee's in the system?

 

[begreen]

This varies. Pre-EPA stoves may get away with 12 ft. but not many EPA stoves will. The minimum sea level height for his stove is 16 ft. Nappys like a fairly strong draft.

Trooper. Juniper is excellent for starting a fire and it smells great.

 

[Sprinter]

This varies. Pre-EPA stoves may get away with 12 ft. but not many EPA stoves will. The minimum sea level height for his stove is 16 ft. Nappys like a fairly strong draft.

Trooper. Juniper is excellent for starting a fire and it smells great.

Makes sense that stoves designs will differ. I'm getting away with my low height, but I probably would be happier with more.

 

[begreen]

Makes sense that stoves designs will differ. I'm getting away with my low height, but I probably would be happier with more.

I've found that PE stoves breathe easier compared to those with longer secondary intake manifolds.

 

[Trooper]

Trooper, do you have any offsets, horizontal runs or tee's in the system?

No, Sprinter. Straight up.

 

[Sprinter]

Okay. I'd still bet that you're fine. You may experience some minor draft issues sometimes like warm days. Whenever you go to open the door with the fire going, open the air up all the way first, then open the door slowly to avoid spilling smoke. If draft becomes a serious issue, you may want to add more chimney height at that time, but I'd wait and see if it becomes a problem.

And don't expect light shows from the secondaries. They're kinda rare, but nice when you do get them.

Oh, one other issue. Do you have outside air intake for combustion? That can make a big difference, especially with a tight house or if you get negative pressure in the house from bathroom fans, etc.

 

[Trooper]

Whenever you go to open the door with the fire going, open the air up all the way first, then open the door slowly to avoid spilling smoke.

Is that to improve draft?

Oh, one other issue. Do you have outside air intake for combustion? That can make a big difference, especially with a tight house or if you get negative pressure in the house from bathroom fans.

No outside air intake, but my house is anything but tight. It's a cabin built in the 50s designed primarily for summer usage.

Thanks for all of your troubleshooting help!