Replacing a Riteway 37 with a Drolet Heat Commander. Here we go!

[Highbeam]

Are all of the 6" prepunched holes on the sides of the plenum? I though they were. Then your old furnace used 8" holes on top of the plenum. Any reason you can't put new 8" holes on top?

In my part of the country you can rent tractors with loaders, miniexcavators, and even skid steer loaders at a local mom and pop place that delivers the stuff and you rent by the 8 hour "day". SSLs have a lot of lift capacity and are very maneuverable.

Do you have a cherry picker engine hoist? That would seem to be a decent way to lift the furnace onto the blocks.

 

[brenndatomu]

Are all of the 6" prepunched holes on the sides of the plenum? I though they were. Then your old furnace used 8" holes on top of the plenum. Any reason you can't put new 8" holes on top?

They are...as I understand it they prefer coming off the side rather than the top...I personally would try to have at least most of them come off the side, if not all.

In my part of the country you can rent tractors with loaders, miniexcavators, and even skid steer loaders at a local mom and pop place that delivers the stuff and you rent by the 8 hour "day". SSLs have a lot of lift capacity and are very maneuverable.

All it takes is $$$

 

[mondain]

I'm keeping the tow truck idea in the back of my mind. Right now the leading idea seems to be rental of a small mini excavator, and maybe purchase a pallet jack to move it around the basement. Regular old dollies are an option of course, but under super heavy loads 500 lbs+ they become a pain in the ass, the wheels either trip on microscopic pebbles or they universe decides that swivel wheels dont work on Thursdays.

 

[mondain]

Are all of the 6" prepunched holes on the sides of the plenum? I though they were. Then your old furnace used 8" holes on top of the plenum. Any reason you can't put new 8" holes on top?

In my part of the country you can rent tractors with loaders, miniexcavators, and even skid steer loaders at a local mom and pop place that delivers the stuff and you rent by the 8 hour "day". SSLs have a lot of lift capacity and are very maneuverable.

Do you have a cherry picker engine hoist? That would seem to be a decent way to lift the furnace onto the blocks.

Correct the holes are pre-punched into the side of the upper plenum. I was thinking about cutting out the top, however that changes the height of the plenum and they have minimums they want you to use. I'd have to measure if the heights work out.

I am looking into renting a mini excavator, trying to find the best place. I still have some weeks before the basement is prepped for any of this.

I do not have an engine hoist, but I think their V-shaped legs would interfere with the pedestal.

 

[mondain]

They are...as I understand it they prefer coming off the side rather than the top...I personally would try to have at least most of them come off the side, if not all.

All it takes is $$$

Yea the plenum is designed to pipe out the sides, if I can keep it that way I'd like to. A mini excavator rental near me is about $370/day and you have to trailer it to your job site. Some places deliver for another fee.

 

[salecker]

Yea the plenum is designed to pipe out the sides, if I can keep it that way I'd like to. A mini excavator rental near me is about $370/day and you have to trailer it to your job site. Some places deliver for another fee.

Owch
A tow truck should run about $125.00 an hour which would be lots of time.
On my small truck the boom extends 6 ft and has 2 10,000 LB winches
extend the boom,back over the furnace and winch it off the ground, back over your basement opening and winch it down the opening onto you rolling device.Pay the man and send hi, away.
No trailering, chewing up your yard with tracks, no learning curve of the mini excavator, no rigging.

 

[mondain]

Owch
A tow truck should run about $125.00 an hour which would be lots of time.
On my small truck the boom extends 6 ft and has 2 10,000 LB winches
extend the boom,back over the furnace and winch it off the ground, back over your basement opening and winch it down the opening onto you rolling device.Pay the man and send hi, away.
No trailering, chewing up your yard with tracks, no learning curve of the mini excavator, no rigging.

Thanks it sounds like a good idea, I just need to find someone with a tow truck/wrecker near me. I'm kinda in the middle of nowhere out there lol

 

[maple1]

I'm keeping the tow truck idea in the back of my mind. Right now the leading idea seems to be rental of a small mini excavator, and maybe purchase a pallet jack to move it around the basement. Regular old dollies are an option of course, but under super heavy loads 500 lbs+ they become a pain in the ass, the wheels either trip on microscopic pebbles or they universe decides that swivel wheels dont work on Thursdays.

You can move a lot of weight a long way across concrete with a few pieces of steel pipe and a couple of planks.

 

[mondain]

You can move a lot of weight a long way across concrete with a few pieces of steel pipe and a couple of planks.

That is true. I am still in the process of cleaning the basement so that there is a clear path of smooth concrete from the Bilco pit to the furnace location. And also a location to move the old furnace out of the way. I'm not sure how the timing will go--should I order, ship, and receive the new furnace into the basement before removing the old one, just to ensure I qualify for at least the 22% write-off on the furnace purchase even if I dont get the rest of the HVAC work done in 2023? Or wait until the old furnace is completely removed from the basement first, so that there is more spaceto maneuver and only 1 furnace to worry about..

 

[brenndatomu]

I think the way its written anything you are using the tax credit on has to be bought/installed in that year...check with your tax guy though, I'm not for sure.

 

[mondain]

I think the way its written anything you are using the tax credit on has to be bought/installed in that year...check with your tax guy though, I'm not for sure.

Yea that is my understanding. While I would love to pay for it all and get it all done in 2023, to be able to write off 22% of it all, I might not be able to afford it all that fast. The furnace is $4k, prolly another $4k for hvac to re-duct everything and install it in place (if I dont do that myself). I'm still trying to talk to hvac guys to get price quotes so I really dont know how much I might have to shell out. I'm handy but there's something to be said for someone doing it according to safety code and providing warranty help if something needs fixing later etc

 

[laynes69]

The furnaces are tailored to DIY. They have plug-in power connections. You can choose to tie into the cold or keep the return in the basement and just duct the 4-8's in the plenum (I would choose that route also). Once it's in the basement, a few schedule 40 pvc pipes makes easy work to transport. I've installed a couple fireboxes and moved a few furnaces from point a to b using small pipes. Following clearances and having the recommended installation requirements isn't difficult. I couldn't imagine paying 4k for an install of a diy unit. Our furnace had a full return, supply and backdraft components and I installed it for next to nothing.

 

[mondain]

The furnaces are tailored to DIY. They have plug-in power connections. You can choose to tie into the cold or keep the return in the basement and just duct the 4-8's in the plenum (I would choose that route also). Once it's in the basement, a few schedule 40 pvc pipes makes easy work to transport. I've installed a couple fireboxes and moved a few furnaces from point a to b using small pipes. Following clearances and having the recommended installation requirements isn't difficult. I couldn't imagine paying 4k for an install of a diy unit. Our furnace had a full return, supply and backdraft components and I installed it for next to nothing.

I was just spitballing the $4k price for install, trying to think of everything it might include (moving the new furnace into the basement, removing/breaking up the old furnace and removing it, redoing the existing 8" ducts with new insulation and hangers, building a block pedestal for the new furnace and air handler, etc.)

I really hope it doesnt cost $4k but, when the house is in the middle of nowhere and any hvac guys have to drive an hour one way to get to you, I just prepare myself for the bills to mount. I can do some of the work myself, but I work in another state fulltime, it's almost impossible for me to be on-site when hvac guys can be on-site, so a lot of work I could do has to get offloaded onto them. I'm ok with that, I hopefully wont have to do anything like this again the rest of my life lol.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Yea that is my understanding. While I would love to pay for it all and get it all done in 2023, to be able to write off 22% of it all, I might not be able to afford it all that fast. The furnace is $4k, prolly another $4k for hvac to re-duct everything and install it in place (if I dont do that myself). I'm still trying to talk to hvac guys to get price quotes so I really dont know how much I might have to shell out. I'm handy but there's something to be said for someone doing it according to safety code and providing warranty help if something needs fixing later etc

Just as a heads up, the tax credit was changed for this year under the current administration. It’s now 30%, but there’s a catch: max of $2000. That may or may not be better than 22% with no limit, probably depending on if you do DIY or not. Also there’s no rush because I believe it’s good for like 10yrs.

 

[mondain]

Just as a heads up, the tax credit was changed for this year under the current administration. It’s now 30%, but there’s a catch: max of $2000. That may or may not be better than 22% with no limit, probably depending on if you do DIY or not. Also there’s no rush because I believe it’s good for like 10yrs.

Thanks for the info! Do you have a link to somewhere describing this change to 30%? I do my own taxes so hopefully the tax software would know about it..

 

[mondain]

Biomass Stove Tax Credit – Hearth Patio & Barbecue Association | HPBA

www.hpba.org

 

[mondain]

It's right.
Or warranty voided.
The blower will speed up based on plenum temp...if it goes to high, it needs to breath...and that puppy can move some air let me tell ya!
If you want to use more than 6 holes you could stay with 6"...would be easier to make 4 holes 8" and stick with what you have though.
The manual specs that you need a minimum of 170 SQ inches of supply duct...sound right or not, that's their spec, it needs to be followed. Not doing so voids warranty and in the event of a fire the insurance company could use that against you to deny a claim if they discovered the variance.

I contacted Drolet and asked about switching from 6" holes in the plenum to 8" holes, seeing as that actually increases the SQin. They told me using anything other than at LEAST six of the included 6" plenum openings would result in voiding the warranty, regardless of the SQ in or air volume numbers. So using four 8" holes is right out, I do not want to void the warranty.

Also I have not bought the furnace yet, I am still working on cleaning out the old wood and making room in the basement!

 

[mondain]

Does anyone know if a Heat Commander can sit outside in the elements (under a tarp), if the blower mechanism is stored inside--are there any electronics or sensitive equipment mounted to the firebox chassis that could be damaged?

I understand that this is an indoor furnace, and exposing it to outside elements of temp/moisture is a terrible idea. I'm just trying to plan for how to purchase one and store it before I need it, ahead of a new 25% tariff on Canadian imports I'm gonna wind up paying.

 

[brenndatomu]

Does anyone know if a Heat Commander can sit outside in the elements (under a tarp), if the blower mechanism is stored inside--are there any electronics or sensitive equipment mounted to the firebox chassis that could be damaged?

I understand that this is an indoor furnace, and exposing it to outside elements of temp/moisture is a terrible idea. I'm just trying to plan for how to purchase one and store it before I need it, ahead of a new 25% tariff on Canadian imports I'm gonna wind up paying.

There are electronics...but if you keep them dry, and varmint free, I'd think I'd be fine for a short time.
They are on sale right now...better jump!

https://www.myfireplaceproducts.com/us/en/heaters/wood-furnaces/

 

[LogCabinFever]

Does anyone know if a Heat Commander can sit outside in the elements (under a tarp), if the blower mechanism is stored inside--are there any electronics or sensitive equipment mounted to the firebox chassis that could be damaged?

I understand that this is an indoor furnace, and exposing it to outside elements of temp/moisture is a terrible idea. I'm just trying to plan for how to purchase one and store it before I need it, ahead of a new 25% tariff on Canadian imports I'm gonna wind up paying.

The damper and electronic board controls are on the back of the furnace. I’d be weary of storing it outside unless it’s tightly wrapped and away from rodents. How long do you need to store it? Do you not have a shed to put it in?

Also, I’d call Drolet back and reask the question of 8” vs 6”. I think their point is to state the minimums. Functionally, I see no difference as long as the square inch minimum is met, but maybe someone more HVAC savvy than I can chime in.

 

[mondain]

I am not thrilled about potentially storing it outside. I do have a shed with space to store it. The problem is, I cant move it around. I dont own equipment to lift it or move it around from the shed to the outside basement access. Wherever the delivery truck leaves it, is probably where it will stay. My goal was to have the basement cleaned out enough that I could lower it into the basement bilco door access on the day it gets delivered from the vendor. But if not, I have to store it...somewhere.

Moving this 800 lb pallet is a nightmare. I dont know how people get it into their homes or basements without drive-up access.

My dad had like 5 friends help lower the old Riteway 37 into the basement when it was just a foundation, walking it down wooden boards. There werent even any cinderblock walls yet. Now I have the honor of 1) removing that thing somehow, and 2) installing another 800 lb thing.

 

[mondain]

Oh and "lower into the bilco door access" is also a nightmare, I need someone with a frontloader or a mini excavator with enough juice to lift the HC, drive forward over the opening, and then lower the HC down. And then from there, get it up a lip through a doorway into the basement. And then maneuver around onto a cement block platform (I aint breaking my back throwing logs into a unit with its door too low).

So yea, this project is ongoing lol

 

[brenndatomu]

I've installed and removed probably a dozen stoves and furnaces, most of them all by myself, and without power equipment...it's about work smart, not hard...ropes, pulleys, ramps, and most of all, levers, are your friends!
Just FYI, as wood furnaces go, the HC is not that large, or heavy.

 

[salecker]

Oh and "lower into the bilco door access" is also a nightmare, I need someone with a frontloader or a mini excavator with enough juice to lift the HC, drive forward over the opening, and then lower the HC down. And then from there, get it up a lip through a doorway into the basement. And then maneuver around onto a cement block platform (I aint breaking my back throwing logs into a unit with its door too low).

So yea, this project is ongoing lol

Get a tow truck with an extendable boom
My 1 ton tow truck has an extendable boom and twin winches,but each one is good for 10000 lbs. The boom extends so the load can be about 8 ft from the back of the truck.
Back over the hole and let it down into the basement with the winch cable
I took the RSF 100 out of my basement like that, i had installed it before the floor was built.
Came straight up out of the stair well.