ESCAPE 2100 little to no heat output

[Gearhead660]

Do you know if the baffle is installed correctly? It's the piece that sits on top of the secondary burn tube's. Should be centered and pushed all the way back. Just want to rule that out.

 

[moresnow]

So about an hour into the process now I was able to have the air 80-90 percent closed. I moved the thermometer to the stove top. The stove was only around 400 degrees. I left everything unattended.
I would check in periodically and the stove top temp eventually reached the 600 degree mark and closed the air completely.

Sooooo? You ran that load/batch until the stove top was at a respectable temp for putting out acceptable heat (600F).
Controls closed at 80-90 percent closed. Sounds good.

Then you turned off the stove by shutting down the air supply completely. Sounds bad.

No offense but this routine is somewhat baffling to me. Let the stove run and make usable heat. Why snuff it out at fully closed? . Many stoves will fail a load if air supply is turned completely off.

Perhaps I missed/misunderstood what you are looking for here?

700F on the Drolet I am around most gets run up to 700F on every full load/batch. It has for years. Bulletproof heat maker btw.

Good luck. Don't give up. Your operating routine will evolve and come together to suit your needs.

 

[Lowtech84]

I recommend an IR thermometer. Measuring flue gas temps will prevent turning air down to low. Symptoms suggest wet wood. I have never had to empty hot coals. Ever…. Dry wood on a hot coal bed needs tuned down in 5-10 minutes. 20-30 minutes wide open would get things way way too hot.

I don’t suspect low draft. You need to close air below 25%.
Hard wood needs minimum 2 summers to split stacked and top cover. This is with partial sun and good air. 3 summers is better.

One thing at a time. First get another thermometer. I like the Auber at200. Basement stove they make a wireless version. Love it for mine.

Get a few packs of sawdust bricks/logs see how those burn. And I’d sweep ASAP to check for build up. You will get it all dialed in!!

Can you explain this a little more please.
"I recommend an IR thermometer. Measuring flue gas temps will prevent turning air down to low. Symptoms suggest wet wood. I have never had to empty hot coals. Ever…. Dry wood on a hot coal bed needs tuned down in 5-10 minutes. 20-30 minutes wide open would get things way way too hot. " - How do you measure flue gas w/a IR thermometer? Is that not what the magnetic thermomentor attached to the flue pipe is doing? Turn down 5-10 mins meaning adding wood to hot coals correct then shutting down the air control yes?

As far as wet wood. I think im not giving the wood long enough to burn down. Trying to let give it 6-8 hours instead of 3 to 4.

 

[Lowtech84]

Do you know if the baffle is installed correctly? It's the piece that sits on top of the secondary burn tube's. Should be centered and pushed all the way back. Just want to rule that out.

yes i had a cracked baffle and had to put a new one in before getting the stove going. I made sure it was all the way against the back of the stove.

 

[Lowtech84]

Sooooo? You ran that load/batch until the stove top was at a respectable temp for putting out acceptable heat (600F).
Controls closed at 80-90 percent closed. Sounds good.

Then you turned off the stove by shutting down the air supply completely. Sounds bad.

No offense but this routine is somewhat baffling to me. Let the stove run and make usable heat. Why snuff it out at fully closed? . Many stoves will fail a load if air supply is turned completely off.

Perhaps I missed/misunderstood what you are looking for here?

700F on the Drolet I am around most gets run up to 700F on every full load/batch. It has for years. Bulletproof heat maker btw.

Good luck. Don't give up. Your operating routine will evolve and come together to suit your needs.

No offense taken at all. Any help /comments are appreciated.

I was under the impression closing the air all the way "off" still allowed some air flow in. Is that not the case?

I think we are on the same page I want the most heat as possible out of this stove. (within normal conditions. Not overfiring)

Yes when the I have a thermometer on the stove top I am able to reach temperatures in the 700F range. How long are you able to keep the stove at the 700F mark? As you stated above is the closing the air supply off limited how long the stove can operate at this temp?

 

[Lowtech84]

Best measurements is with the current path between the pins not crossing fiber strands. I.e. parallel to the grain.

Your wood has seen one summer, and I find the numbers to be unexpectedly low for that.

I think long term would work best if you stack your wood a year earlier. That means getting a lot now but later only replace what you use in a season. Most folks burn their wood after it's been stacked (off the ground, top covered) for two or three summers

Is 15 to 20% moisture not good enough for these stoves? What's the real target moisture content?

 

[moresnow]

No offense taken at all. Any help /comments are appreciated.

I was under the impression closing the air all the way "off" still allowed some air flow in. Is that not the case?

I think we are on the same page I want the most heat as possible out of this stove. (within normal conditions. Not overfiring)

Yes when the I have a thermometer on the stove top I am able to reach temperatures in the 700F range. How long are you able to keep the stove at the 700F mark? As you stated above is the closing the air supply off limited how long the stove can operate at this temp?

Closing your air supply all the way is very likely killing your heat output. If having your air supply control set at 80-90 percent closed gave you 600F stove top temp..... Leave it there for a load and see what transpires. Grab a chair and watch. Only monkey with the air supply control if the stove top gets exceptionally hot. 750+ perhaps.
You will chase your tail by continually adjusting the air control.

Your venting setup may not support turning down the air supply completely without snuffing heat output. Nothing new. Every stove/venting install has a usable range as far as air supply control settings being effective. Your setup may like the 80-90 percent closed and no more.
Test it out. You need to find the sweet spot for being able to walk away while the stove makes maximum reliable heat. Fine tune settings from there to match your heat requirement.

Carry on!

 

[EbS-P]

Can you explain this a little more please.
"I recommend an IR thermometer. Measuring flue gas temps will prevent turning air down to low. Symptoms suggest wet wood. I have never had to empty hot coals. Ever…. Dry wood on a hot coal bed needs tuned down in 5-10 minutes. 20-30 minutes wide open would get things way way too hot. " - How do you measure flue gas w/a IR thermometer? Is that not what the magnetic thermomentor attached to the flue pipe is doing? Turn down 5-10 mins meaning adding wood to hot coals correct then shutting down the air control yes?

As far as wet wood. I think im not giving the wood long enough to burn down. Trying to let give it 6-8 hours instead of 3 to 4.

I wasn’t clear. The IR thermometer is to check your magnetic one. It’s super handy.

The flue gas probe thermometer can be digital or analog responds almost instantly to air control input changes. With my digital Auber I can adjust the air and see that after 45 seconds the temp is still dropping I know I closed it too much.

When try to ride the line it’s much easier when using flue gas temps.

 

[stoveliker]

Is 15 to 20% moisture not good enough for these stoves? What's the real target moisture content?

15-20% is good. But my experience says that you can't get oak there in one summer. Maple is tough in one year.

So I wonder if you are measuring correctly.

 

[Lowtech84]

15-20% is good. But my experience says that you can't get oak there in one summer. Maple is tough in one year.

So I wonder if you are measuring correctly.

the logs were dropped off to me mid/late spring 2023. Bucked/split/stacked that summer. Does that not count as a summer of seasoning?
2023 summer, 2024 summer. Now mid winter id take that as 2 + years seasoning.
I appreciate all the feedback I really just want more knowledge and make sure im more accurate w/my wording.

Regardless I also like to take wording out of it. Who cares if its 1 year season or 10 right? The moisture meter is really what maters. Split some more pieces and took some more reading. This time i tried to follow your directions. I pushed the meter in so far i bent the ends. Also went w/the grain I believe. Pics attached. Not sure if i got any oak in this batch maybe all maple or beech?

Nothing over 20%

 

[begreen]

At least a third of the heat is heading outdoors, possibly more if this is a leaky basement.

I get that up to about 500-600 degrees Fahrenheit and start to close off the air supply to the stove.

That is a too hot for the surface flue temperature. Try to keep it below 400ºF onthe single-wall stovepipe. The air needs to be shut down sooner. The flue temp needs to drop down to about 300º surface reading. if the air is open too much, then secondary combustion will be poor.
Is there also a thermometer on the stove top? If so, what is that reading?

 

[stoveliker]

the logs were dropped off to me mid/late spring 2023. Bucked/split/stacked that summer. Does that not count as a summer of seasoning?
2023 summer, 2024 summer. Now mid winter id take that as 2 + years seasoning.
I appreciate all the feedback I really just want more knowledge and make sure im more accurate w/my wording.

Regardless I also like to take wording out of it. Who cares if its 1 year season or 10 right? The moisture meter is really what maters. Split some more pieces and took some more reading. This time i tried to follow your directions. I pushed the meter in so far i bent the ends. Also went w/the grain I believe. Pics attached. Not sure if i got any oak in this batch maybe all maple or beech?

Nothing over 20%

Post 8 said split in fall 2023, that is what I was basing my remark on. Drying starts when split.

First pic may be oak, second and third is maple.
Those measurements look good and indeed that's what matters

 

[Lowtech84]

In general i still think im not running the stove properly which is leading to the large cold charcoal in the stove.

Does the 1 air control both the air into and out of the stove or does it just control the air into the stove?

With the old stove I was able to control both. I would monitor the flue temp and as it rose I would close both my flue damper and the air controls on the front of the stove. This would lead to a very hot flue temp at start up approaching 800F, I never measured the stove top. But after awhile everything would slow down and I would have a 500-700F flue temp (measured from a magnetic thermometer on single wall stove pipe) and I would have some great heat.

Now w/this stove Im confused as to not let the flue temp go above 500F but the only way to limit that is close down the 1 air supply. I am able to get the stove top up to 600F but seems to take longer and not sure the fire is burning as it should.

Tonight I was able to achieve a nice hot 700F stove top reading. I was only able to do this by not closing the air supply at all until the flue temp reached 500F and i slowly turned the air control down while the flue temp topped out at 700F. Once we reached that point I would say the air supply is around that 90-95% closed. (I went 100% and then backed off some)
The flue temp slowly went back down and the woodstove has been steady at 700F.

 

[Lowtech84]

At least a third of the heat is heading outdoors, possibly more if this is a leaky basement.

That is a too hot for the surface flue temperature. Try to keep it below 400ºF onthe single-wall stovepipe. The air needs to be shut down sooner. The flue temp needs to drop down to about 300º surface reading. if the air is open too much, then secondary combustion will be poor.
Is there also a thermometer on the stove top? If so, what is that reading?

I struggle w/this. It seems when i close the air down to keep the flue under 400F I have no fire.

 

[begreen]

I struggle w/this. It seems when i close the air down to keep the flue under 400F I have no fire.

The wood does sound suspect. It may be that the wood is still somewhat damp in its core. Add a three or four 2x4 cutoffs to the fire for a known dry wood addition.

What is the stove top temperature?

 

[Lowtech84]

The wood does sound suspect. It may be that the wood is still somewhat damp in its core. Add a three or four 2x4 cutoffs to the fire for a known dry wood addition.

What is the stove top temperature?

Ok so from a cold stove today I started a fire and monitored both the flue temp and the stove top temp every 10 mins for 2+ hours.
Initial wood load:


Starting fire w/top down method

10 mins into burn started to limit air supply FLUE temp=305F, STOVE temp=150F
20 mins into burn: FLUE TEMP=345F, STOVE temp=225F
30 Mins into burn: FLUE TEMP=345F, STOVE temp=300F

40 Mins into burn: FLUE TEMP=350F, STOVE temp=350F

50 Mins into burn (had to completely close air control): FLUE temp= 400F, Stove temp=400F

60 mins into burn: FLUE temp=400F, Stove temp= 450F

70 mins into burn: FLUE temp=400F, Stove Temp=500F

80 mins into burn FLUE temp=350F, Stove temp= 510F

90 mins into burn FLUE temp=325F, Stove temp=500F opened air supply

100 mins into burn FLUE temp =350F, Stove temp= 495F closed air a little

110 mins into burn FLUE temp=325F, Stove temp=500F opened air a little

120 mins into burn FLUE temp=335F, Stove temp= 500F

130 mins into burn FLUE temp =325F, Stove temp= 495F
140 mins into burn FLUE temp=350F, Stove temp= 495F

The stove never seemed to get up to where i can get it if i let the flue get hotter. Still impressed I was able to get the stove as hot without letting the flue get over 400. Still feel I started closing off the air to early and when it was completely closed i think that's where things went down hill. How do I get a 700F stove top without the flue getting over 400F?
Adding 5 pieces of pine 2x4 off cuts didn't seem to help anything.

Thanks for all the feedback and help.

Got a quote for 2" thick foam board insulation which will help keep the heat in for sure but I still don't see this stove putting out heat as it should. At $2000 (for the insulation) id rather put that money into a 8" chimney liner and put the old stove back in. At least i know that puts out heat. If this stove is that picky about the moisture content of the wood again more points for the old stove.

 

[EbS-P]

You don’t want stove top temps (STT) over 600 unless you really want to push the stove hard and then you will want a blower. 500 a a good cruise temp. That’s what I shoot for.

That from the pics the burn looks very controlled. A well a managed fire.

 

[Lowtech84]

You don’t want stove top temps (STT) over 600 unless you really want to push the stove hard and then you will want a blower. 500 a a good cruise temp. That’s what I shoot for.

That from the pics the burn looks very controlled. A well a managed fire.

Im looking for this stove to heat. Trying to talk myself into keeping this stove but every turn seems like its not what I want.

 

[EbS-P]

Im looking for this stove to heat. Trying to talk myself into keeping this stove but every turn seems like it’s not what I want. LOL

How long did that load burn for? You have a 3.5 cu ft stove running at 500 degrees. Unless your thermometer is off by that stove is pumping out some heat. An uninsulated space is hard to heat.

 

[begreen]

That looks like better control and reasonable stove top temps.
Where was the stove top thermometer placed?
Is there a stove blower? If yes, was it running during this testing?

 

[Lowtech84]

How long did that load burn for? You have a 3.5 cu ft stove running at 500 degrees. Unless your thermometer is off by that stove is pumping out some heat. An uninsulated is hard to heat.

totally agree the uninsulated basement is a killer.

Really trying to get the technique down and see how much heat I can pull out of this stove to justify insulating the basement or reverting back to the old setup and investing in a bigger chimney liner.

The stove was fired up at 3:30pm EST time and its sill going now approx 8PM EST. However i keep having to go down and stir up the coals and adjust the air. Still having unburned wood sitting underneath all the coals. Fire will just kinda smother if its not attended to.

 

[Lowtech84]

That looks like better control and reasonable stove top temps.
Where was the stove top thermometer placed?
Is there a stove blower? If yes, was it running during this testing?

Facing the stove it is placed on the center right hand side. Anything specific you are looking for? Its on the stove top.

There is a blower but it was not running during the above run. I haven't used it.

 

[kborndale]

Why don't you just insulate the basement. You have a very large stove that can put out a ton of heat. It will heat the basement fine if you do some insulating. Listen to what everyone is telling you.

 

[moresnow]

There is a blower but it was not running during the above run. I haven't used it.

Are you saying you have not utilized the factory fan? Why? It is known to make a drastic difference in heat distribution in many cases.
Run successive batch's. Start with the fan on low.
Next batch run the stove fan half way to the middle position.
Next batch run the fan at the middle setting.
Carry on etc.
Report whether this is a worthy improvement.

 

[Lowtech84]

Why don't you just insulate the basement. You have a very large stove that can put out a ton of heat. It will heat the basement fine if you do some insulating. Listen to what everyone is telling you.

Im not trying to debate the insulation. I agree w/everyone that if I am going to run this stove I will need to insulate the basement.

Just trying to get as much heat as I can to way the pros and cons to get make a better educated guess as to what to do next.

On my mind I have 2 options:
1. Insulate the basement and run this stove.
2. Replace the 6" liner w/a 8" liner and run my old stove.

Pros for the EPA stove:
1. less wood usage.
2. insulating basement is a big plus for home value overall quality of life.
Cons EPA stove:
1. moisture content in wood.
2. so far it appears to be more demanding to keep the stove running at optimal level.

Pros to non-epa:
1. proven heat output
Cons:
1. needs bigger flue
2. eats wood

Its a toss up at this point. Id like to focus more on running the EPA stove properly to get better managing it. Think I have the startup and 2 first hours dialed in but after that I have unburnt logs at the bottom of the stove and low flue temp around 300F so I poke around and get some air into the logs at the bottom and it gets going again and I'm able to raise the flue temp to 350-425F and i can adjust the air enough to keep it there. during this time the stove top is at 450-500F which id like to see a little higher but I just want to focus on not having the wood just smolder for ever smells terrible outside.


Thanks for all the help comments!