Regency l3100 Cracks

[velvetfoot]

If you're still in experimentation mode, although it probably won't do much good on your new unit, or maybe it will.

You have the surround off, right? On my Hampton, there are holes in the pedestal, or whatever it's called, that the stove box rests on. I covered all of those, save 1 on the right front, with metallic tape. I have a bent piece of sheet metal with a magnet, so I can slide it back and forth.

The intake air, both primary and secondary, come goes into a cavity enclosed by metal, where the primary air controls are. It can't be accessed to modify unless steel is cut. In fact, there was a person who did that to put on some automatic controls-you could see how the stove worked from his pictures.

I'm not saying whatever stove you get will be the same. It might be easier. But this has been a fabulous mod for me.

 

[davidmsem]

If you're still in experimentation mode, although it probably won't do much good on your new unit, or maybe it will.

You have the surround off, right? On my Hampton, there are holes in the pedestal, or whatever it's called, that the stove box rests on. I covered all of those, save 1 on the right front, with metallic tape. I have a bent piece of sheet metal with a magnet, so I can slide it back and forth.

The intake air, both primary and secondary, come goes into a cavity enclosed by metal, where the primary air controls are. It can't be accessed to modify unless steel is cut. In fact, there was a person who did that to put on some automatic controls-you could see how the stove worked from his pictures.

I'm not saying whatever stove you get will be the same. It might be easier. But this has been a fabulous mod for me.

Thank you. The Regency 3100 is going into the scrap heap after a few more weeks of heat. I don't understand why it's so vague with these units. They should provide all the information about draft etc to users so they could run these things properly and not overheat.

My Regency 3100 and Accord with the manual. Since they omit information about drafting in the like I ran it as best I could. It has shortened life because of the company did not provide me all the information I needed as a consumer to run it properly and it overheated. That's really disappointing.

It's compounded by the fact that the replacement unit is too small in terms of my firewood and does not provide as many BTU. It's a 2.24 box versus a 2.6 box in the worst thing is it won't fit my 20 in logs.

I call it a Regency Classic fail. They do not provide enough information in the manuals such as that consumers could make sure things are done properly. It's just a fact. I just lived it.

 

[bholler]

Thank you. The Regency 3100 is going into the scrap heap after a few more weeks of heat. I don't understand why it's so vague with these units. They should provide all the information about draft etc to users so they could run these things properly and not overheat.

My Regency 3100 and Accord with the manual. Since they omit information about drafting in the like I ran it as best I could. It has shortened life because of the company did not provide me all the information I needed as a consumer to run it properly and it overheated. That's really disappointing.

It's compounded by the fact that the replacement unit is too small in terms of my firewood and does not provide as many BTU. It's a 2.24 box versus a 2.6 box in the worst thing is it won't fit my 20 in logs.

I call it a Regency Classic fail. They do not provide enough information in the manuals such as that consumers could make sure things are done properly. It's just a fact. I just lived it.

That information is available to dealers and they are the ones responsible for making sure it is set up properly. Honestly over 90% of customers aren't going to check draft etc . It's hard enough getting people to even read the manual in the first place.

 

[davidmsem]

Love that photo of your dad and his brother.

My husband and I have moved two stove inserts together. Both times we had the store where we purchased them load them onto a furniture dolly on our utility trailer. With good ratchet straps strapping the stove to the dolly and to the trailer, we could transport them and then move them into our houses. Neither house required lots of stairs, though.

Do you have a place (like your deck) where you could use the tractor to load the stove on a dolly to facilitate moving it?

I’m a weakling, too, so I have to figure out what I can do to make my heavy tasks easier. (Of course my husband’s strength helps out in a lot of those tasks, but the stove inserts weren’t easy, and did require two of us. We did succeed, though, with both.)

Just seeing this now. Dad same uncle built this house with me. I'm lucky in many ways.

Yes, I do have a place like my deck where I can unload the stove. I would use the pallet forks on the Kubota. Only trick would be the threshold coming into through the slider. I guess I could build a small ramp.

Thank you for your input on the thread.

 

[davidmsem]

First EVER fire with full load that did not need to be fully choked and fan not on high.

Re-ran the fully dampered (with holes covered) but with 100% full load.

I have NEVER been able to control my fire with the air control EVER with a full load EVER.

Also of note is the amount of ash left over AND how I was able to steer the temperatures to the "middle" of the gauge on the fireplace face. In 7 years I have NEVER been able to do this ONE TIME. Additionally, with a full load, for about 1 hour at least the fan would need to run on high.

This is unreal and transitional data for me.

Verdict is in, fully dampening, with the holes closed on the damper, is the THE WAY to run the Regency Classic I3100L (now broken from over firing, but installed and operated in accord with the owner's manual).

Steadier burn, in spec, controllable.

Next decision, Pacific Energy Summit LE or Blaze King Princess 29.

Blaze King dealer came to the house to measure. Says he has NEVER seen a Blaze King Princess 29 EVER overdraft. Says I won't be able to. He is the ONLY dealer that says he would install a blocker in the flue if we do overdraft.

Making progress (I think).

 

[stoveliker]

Nice! That should give some confidence back to you!

 

[davidmsem]

Nice! That should give some confidence back to you!

Thanks. First bit of confidence and true understanding.

Right now I'm drawn more to the Pacific Energy Summit LE.

I'm thinking of attempting the install myself, using dollies and building a lift to vertically raise the insert by placing straps around it.

Starting to plan the next phase.

Wish I knew all this 7 years ago.

 

[john26]

I'm thinking of attempting the install myself, using dollies and building a lift to vertically raise the insert by placing straps around it.

My wife and I lifted my my PE series D in place, my hearth is 20" high. I brought it in with a big tire dolly I just removed everything I could except the blower. I put cardboard on the hearth and slid it back in place. It took less than a half hour the hard part was getting the liner fully seated in the appliance adapter, liner was existing from previous insert.

 

[davidmsem]

My wife and I lifted my my PE series D in place, my hearth is 20" high. I brought it in with a big tire dolly I just removed everything I could except the blower. I put cardboard on the hearth and slid it back in place. It took less than a half hour the hard part was getting the liner fully seated in the appliance adapter, liner was existing from previous insert.

Thank you. My hearth is flush with the floor maybe a quarter inch higher. Can I have a couple of questions if you don't mind

How many inches you had above the unit to work the liner into the insert? I will have 6 in at the face and about 8 inches at the appliance opening.

How did you get the unit off the pallet and onto the dollie? I'm debating debating using an engine bar lift with straps around the unit.

 

[john26]

I had about 4" from the top of the unit to the fireplace lintel but had much more room like maybe 10" -12" from the top of the unit to my block off plate. All my inserts were used so no pallet, but the weight of the PE is not too bad once bricks door and baffle removed.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

First EVER fire with full load that did not need to be fully choked and fan not on high.

Re-ran the fully dampered (with holes covered) but with 100% full load.

I have NEVER been able to control my fire with the air control EVER with a full load EVER.

Also of note is the amount of ash left over AND how I was able to steer the temperatures to the "middle" of the gauge on the fireplace face. In 7 years I have NEVER been able to do this ONE TIME. Additionally, with a full load, for about 1 hour at least the fan would need to run on high.

This is unreal and transitional data for me.

Verdict is in, fully dampening, with the holes closed on the damper, is the THE WAY to run the Regency Classic I3100L (now broken from over firing, but installed and operated in accord with the owner's manual).

Steadier burn, in spec, controllable.

Next decision, Pacific Energy Summit LE or Blaze King Princess 29.

Blaze King dealer came to the house to measure. Says he has NEVER seen a Blaze King Princess 29 EVER overdraft. Says I won't be able to. He is the ONLY dealer that says he would install a blocker in the flue if we do overdraft.

Making progress (I think).

View attachment 293673 View attachment 293674

Wow. I’m really glad that your damper modification yielded good results, but I am kind of shocked about what you say about running the Regency with full loads and no control. That’s scary.

I have to admit that the information in your last post would make me incline toward a Blaze King Princess, but if you’re looking to do a self-install, that is certainly a factor. With a Princess, you would qualify for the tax credit that applies to both the insert and the install costs. You would have smoke/creosote stains on the glass if you were running low, and I don’t know how that would go over aesthetically, though. The thermostat would give a wider range of control temperature-wise, and it sounds as though the capacity of both stoves is similar. I just remembered that the Summit might accept longer logs, though. Lots to think about.

 

[davidmsem]

Wow. I’m really glad that your damper modification yielded good results, but I am kind of shocked about what you say about running the Regency with full loads and no control. That’s scary.

I have to admit that the information in your last post would make me incline toward a Blaze King Princess, but if you’re looking to do a self-install, that is certainly a factor. With a Princess, you would qualify for the tax credit that applies to both the insert and the install costs. You would have smoke/creosote stains on the glass if you were running low, and I don’t know how that would go over aesthetically, though. The thermostat would give a wider range of control temperature-wise, and it sounds as though the capacity of both stoves is similar. I just remembered that the Summit might accept longer logs, though. Lots to think about.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and understanding the issues I'm dealing with.

Yes, I should have been scared with the Regency I3100L running as it did. Based on the owner's manual I did not ever think it was overfiring. I was using the fan to cool it when it ran up to 700 and I could not pull it back. Now I know better.

With a loads of oak mid winter I'm betting this thing was over-firing EVEN THOUGH INSTALLED AND OPERATED IN ACCORD WITH THE OWNER'S MANUAL. I feel vindicated that I did not do anything "wrong". "I" did not over fire it, it overfired based on following the installation instructions. The manufacturer only warns of not overfiring buy gives NO DIRECTION on what one can do.

In my opinion, ALL manufacturers should provide the KNOWN specifications in the owners manual and offer in WRITING to user's the recommended techniques for controlling a fire (such a damper). Right now all of this is "tribal knowledge" for people like me. I can't get answers in writing (yet) from Pacific Energy and Blaze King with respect to draft and temperature limits. if I had KNOWN these values, I would have run the insert in accord with the KNOWN but not published specifications and limits.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Pacific Energy Summit LE based on:
1) Higher BTU output.
2) No cat so no recurring costs.
3) Easier operation assuming damper is need for both Summit LE and Princess 29.

User's here have indicated that they believe my draft is so high I will need a damper in the Princess 29 as well. If that is the case, the Princess will have another item to manage during a fire (cat bypass, thermostat, fan, damper). Three variables

 

[bholler]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and understanding the issues I'm dealing with.

With a loads of oak mid winter I'm betting this thing was over-firing EVEN THOUGH INSTALLED AND OPERATED IN ACCORD WITH THE OWNER'S MANUAL.

But not with the technical manual that the installers should have been following

 

[stoveliker]

I agree with bholler; the user seems to have done everything properly - according to the instructions he was given in the manual.
The installer should have 1. recognized the possible issues with the situation; 2. measured and mitigated if any were found (which the user did just now); 3. instructed the user of the potential issues, what to look for in behavior indicating issues, and what to do then.

This is a failure of the installer. Resulting in a stressed and frustrated customer, some danger (see overfiring and holes in the elbow...), and in the premature breaking of an otherwise good insert.

 

[begreen]

But not with the technical manual that the installers should have been following

Could you share the language from the technical manual on venting? What does it say for the i2700? Do you think it would work with the restrictor plate?

Right now I'm leaning toward the Pacific Energy Summit LE based on:
1) Higher BTU output.
2) No cat so no recurring costs.
3) Easier operation assuming damper is need for both Summit LE and Princess 29.

4) Easier to modify/regulate air intake

 

[bholler]

Could you share the language from the technical manual on venting? What does it say for the i2700? Do you think it would work with the restrictor plate?

4) Easier to modify/regulate air intake

It gives a draft specification and no I just had to put a damper on a 2700 on a 26' chimney. The restrictor plate was required because they were overdrafting under relatively normal conditions

 

[davidmsem]

But not with the technical manual that the installers should have been following

False.

1) The installer could not have modified the intake or exhaust in the state I live in (Connecticut). It would not pass the required building inspection.
2) As such, my opinion is that the manufacturers are negligent in not publishing the KNOWN data.

So the home owner is FORCED into overfiring their unit.

Respectfully disagree based on the situation in Connecticut.

 

[davidmsem]

Could you share the language from the technical manual on venting? What does it say for the i2700? Do you think it would work with the restrictor plate?

4) Easier to modify/regulate air intake

Yes on #4, PE Summit is easier to regulate/modify air intake if it is legally allowed.

 

[bholler]

False.

1) The installer could not have modified the intake or exhaust in the state I live in (Connecticut). It would not pass the required building inspection.
2) As such, my opinion is that the manufacturers are negligent in not publishing the KNOWN data.

So the home owner is FORCED into overfiring their unit.

Respectfully disagree based on the situation in Connecticut.

If the unit could not be installed to specifications and there can't be modifications made to the venting to bring it within spec the installers should not have installed the stove. I have refused to install many many times when I couldn't do it in a way I felt was safe or it would perform properly

 

[davidmsem]

I agree with bholler; the user seems to have done everything properly - according to the instructions he was given in the manual.
The installer should have 1. recognized the possible issues with the situation; 2. measured and mitigated if any were found (which the user did just now); 3. instructed the user of the potential issues, what to look for in behavior indicating issues, and what to do then.

This is a failure of the installer. Resulting in a stressed and frustrated customer, some danger (see overfiring and holes in the elbow...), and in the premature breaking of an otherwise good insert.

Yup. I LOVED the I3100L. In the state of CT the installer is NOT ALLOWED any modifications. Zero. I spoke directly with the building official and he has told me, paraphrasing, "I will not approve an installation that does not follow the instruction manual."

I asked about an overfiring unit with the air fully choked. He told me that is, direct quote "not possible, your unit is defective."

At this point in conversation with him I knew it was time to just be quiet. He is not interested in the dangers of an overfire. Only interest is an installation based on the instruction manual.

 

[davidmsem]

If the unit could not be installed to specifications and there can't be modifications made to the venting to bring it within spec the installers should not have installed the stove. I have refused to install many many times when I couldn't do it in a way I felt was safe or it would perform properly

I get that, but how many owners and installers are not paying attention to this? Seems like the industry and government need a more sensible and workable way to go about this.

I wonder if the correct way to fix my situation is to SHORTEN the liner, but I'm not sure if that is legal. The installation manual for the PE Summit LE does not show the liner going to the top of the chimney.

 

[bholler]

I get that, but how many owners and installers are not paying attention to this? Seems like the industry and government need a more sensible and workable way to go about this.

I wonder if the correct way to fix my situation is to SHORTEN the liner, but I'm not sure if that is legal. The installation manual for the PE Summit LE does not show the liner going to the top of the chimney.

Shortening the liner will not accomplish anything positive at all. Yes I agree there really does need to be an approved way for us to adjust for draft variations. But an installer not paying attention to every part of the install is never a valid excuse. The end user is relying upon them to install properly and in a way that they can run the unit safely and efficiently. Your installer didn't do that

 

[DuaeGuttae]

@begreen, I remembered your once mentioning that some manuals recommend dampers for a high draft situation. I found the following quotation of yours in a thread about dampers.

Some stove makers wisely account for these variables in the manuals and recommend a stovepipe damper in strong draft situation.. Some unfortunately are written more from a CYA standpoint that does not help the homeowner at all.

Someone mentioned the Green Mountain 60, but I believe that would be too small to be an adequate replacement for the OP.

@bholler, you said in a reply that “There are several manufacturers that do” recommend dampers in an overdraft situation.

Can either of you point the OP to the manufacturers that do recommend dampers? It seems that he needs a manual with that specific recommendation for his building inspector. Or would a statement in writing from PE that recommends a damper be added to control his draft suffice?

 

[davidmsem]

...

@bholler, you said in a reply that “There are several manufacturers that do” recommend dampers in an overdraft situation.

Can either of you point the OP to the manufacturers that do recommend dampers? It seems that he needs a manual with that specific recommendation for his building inspector. Or would a statement in writing from PE that recommends a damper be added to control his draft suffice?

Thank you for your effort working this with me.

If an installation manual specifically allows for, and calls for, a damper to be installed and the conditions why, that MIGHT be enough for the building inspector. I would have to discuss with the building inspector IF I can get a manual (or email/other doc) in hand.

I have requested via the PE website that they provide me with a written answer, with specs and the conditions for which they would install a damper.

They have not YET responded to this request but it might be taking them time to go "public" with this.

Informally, my dealer asked this question via the distribution network (even the dealer can't speak directly with PE) and the response VERBAL was that yes, the numbers I have indicate my unit was overfiring and they would install a damper. I asked the dealer to try and get both the numbers and their recommendation in writing. Not in hand yet.

The difficulty contacting and dealing with Pacific Energy is something that pushes me toward the Blaze King. I know the name of the rep who called to discuss my chimney height and maximum recommended (30', and I'm at the limit of what Blaze King recommends for the Princess I29 based on that phone call).

With Pacific Energy, customer service BARELY exists. I can image if one had a problem it would even be harder to deal with them.

 

[bholler]

@begreen, I remembered your once mentioning that some manuals recommend dampers for a high draft situation. I found the following quotation of yours in a thread about dampers.

Some stove makers wisely account for these variables in the manuals and recommend a stovepipe damper in strong draft situation.. Some unfortunately are written more from a CYA standpoint that does not help the homeowner at all.

Someone mentioned the Green Mountain 60, but I believe that would be too small to be an adequate replacement for the OP.

@bholler, you said in a reply that “There are several manufacturers that do” recommend dampers in an overdraft situation.

Can either of you point the OP to the manufacturers that do recommend dampers? It seems that he needs a manual with that specific recommendation for his building inspector. Or would a statement in writing from PE that recommends a damper be added to control his draft suffice?

Those manufacturers I was referring to were talking about freestanding units not inserts. I don't think any manufacturers specify dampers on inserts