Regency l3100 Cracks

[begreen]

Does anybody know if a Pacific Energy Summit LE insert can be modified to reduce air coming in.

Yes. That specific question has already been answered multiple times. It is illustrated in the provided Gulland article as well as in the prior discussion of the front air cover on the Summit insert.

 

[davidmsem]

Yes. That specific question has already been answered multiple times. It is illustrated in the provided Gulland article as well as in the prior discussion of the front air cover on the Summit insert.

I guess you're saying that was answered in my thread? One article I read about this said the guy didn't do it because primary and secondary got screwed up. I'm not that comfortable tinkering with a unit and that manner.

My take away is famous don't do as much as I expected. A lot of work but a lesson learned. I'm just going to have a hot stove and go through them every 7 years. Fully closed damper reduced draft 10 to 15%. I'm still running at approximately 2.0. That's at least double if not triple where I should be but don't have firm numbers yet from the manufacturers

Not sure if I'll just burn through the warranty unit before investing in a new one. Seems like overall it's a break-even financially with my setup.

I have a setup spreadsheet that shows me all the expenses to get firewood etc. I think I broke even in year six or seven. Granted the house has been warmer, and more of the house has been warmer, but still out of pocket for all that work to break even, makes one wonder if it is really worth it. Just two of us in the house now with five zones of heat.

I'm not sure where people come up with break even in two years I can certainly share numbers.

I kept track of reduction in oil for each fill up after the insert and the price at the time of the fill up. Just got to wonder is it really worth it.

 

[EbS-P]

I guess you're saying that was answered in my thread? One article I read about this said the guy didn't do it because primary and secondary got screwed up. I'm not that comfortable tinkering with a unit and that manner.

My take away is blocked off plates don't do as much as I expected. A lot of work but a lesson learned. I'm just going to have a hot stove and go through them every 7 years.

Not sure if I'll just burn through the warranty unit before investing in a new one. Seems like overall it's a break-even financially with my setup.

i have a Drolet 1800i where the primary and secondary inlets are separate.

 

[davidmsem]

i have a Drolet 1800i where the primary and secondary inlets are separate.

Yeah just trying to see what's going on with that Pacific Energy Summit LE I'll see if I could locate what people are saying is here. Definitely not going to mess with primary and secondary split intakes. That would constitute messing with the unit and if the house burns down I got a lot more to lose there.

 

[brenndatomu]

Was able to conduct a "damper 100% closed" experiment today. Took some manipulation of the damper but got here as closed and closed could be, flat to axial plane.

I must say, with all the dialog about dampers solving high draft problems, I'm going to need more than just a damper. Matter of fact in my application a fully closed damper really has little affect. Did anyone expect so LITTLE of an influence of a damper? Warm day out, average mix of wood, box on about 60% full.

I guess the question is where do I go from here. Does anybody know if a Pacific Energy Summit LE insert can be modified to reduce air coming in. I think this gets complicated because there may be two sets of inputs, one for primary air and one for secondary air. Having to keep those in balance can create a problem.

Where to go from here?

Disappointed in Connecticut.

View attachment 293590 View attachment 293594 View attachment 293595 View attachment 293596

Well, part of the issue is those big holes in the plate...that and the fact that it's only 5.5" diam (but that's pretty typical I think) I'm sure you seen the pics others have posted where they had to block off those holes in the plate with fender washers...and I know I've heard of more than one chimney that actually had to have double dampers...but that was on a basement furnace install, not an insert...it would be very difficult to do double dampers on an insert stove.

 

[begreen]

I guess you're saying that was answered in my thread? One article I read about this said the guy didn't do it because primary and secondary got screwed up. I'm not that comfortable tinkering with a unit and that manner.

Having multiple threads on these topics is not helping. You have some good data now to base assumptions on.

Yeah just trying to see what's going on with that Pacific Energy Summit LE I'll see if I could locate what people are saying is here. Definitely not going to mess with primary and secondary split intakes. That would constitute messing with the unit and if the house burns down I got a lot more to lose there.

Comment #47 here has John Gulland's Florida Bungalow Syndrome article link that covers strong draft issues and solutions.:

Blaze King Princess 29 versus Pacific Summit LE - Insert Replacement for Regency I3100L

Love the cat next to the fire!!!! I'm an engineer, would love to test it. If you are serious I would pay the shipping. Extremely nice of you and I'm replacing a unit that went bad. Some here think it was drafting too much. I would return it right away. I have no immediate need for the gauge so...

www.hearth.com

(Gulland has a Summit).

And response #21 to your question in this thread covers air restriction on the Summit:

Pacific Energy Summit pedestal burn times question

Ok I've probably had 20 fires in this stove and I am lucky to get 5 hours on a fully loaded stove. I'm talking fire box full loaded north and south. I'm burning seasoned dry Fir (15-17%) which might be the problem but this stove seems to go through wood much faster than my last stove which was...

www.hearth.com

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Company I'm shopping at to potentially do this, owner had a real Karen episode when I said I wanted a damper installed. Talked about pulling it out onto the hearth putting in black pipe and how she wanted to call the building inspector in advance. Was a real full Karen meltdown. I mean I just asked to put a damper in it because of the draft readings I have. If I hire a company they got to pull a permit, so I want to find out in advance before I spend the money what they're going to say.

Did you talk to the inspector yourself, or was it just the owner of the install company?

You have an email from PE that says that they recommend a damper in a high draft situation, right? I would think that if you showed that to a building inspector that they would not have any problem.

We used to live in a small city outside Washington, D.C., and we had to pull a permit for just about everything. It got expensive so we tried to combine a number of items at a time on a permit. The really great thing was, though, that the inspectors would actually come to your house and give you advice about what needed and didn’t need to be included or how to write things up. I understand that not all inspectors are so helpful, but we had really good experiences with ours. They were by the book folks but really mostly concerned about safety.

In our part of Texas there is no authority having jurisdiction to inspect anything, It’s bizarre to me, and it shows in the work that was done on our house before we bought it. We made sure that we had the safest install possible for our wood insert, but it took us about two years actually to accomplish it, and I had to make sure that I understood exactly what we needed. Anybody who told me that they didn’t do insulated liners wasn’t an option. We had two and a half cold winters during that time, and we are grateful to this day for being able to keep our house warm with wood now.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Well, part of the issue is those big holes in the plate...that and the fact that it's only 5.5" diam (but that's pretty typical I think) I'm sure you seen the pics others have posted where they had to block off those holes in the plate with fender washers...and I know I've heard of more than one chimney that actually had to have double dampers...but that was on a basement furnace install, not an insert...it would be very difficult to do double dampers on an insert stove.

I think @bholler also suggested closing the holes in the plate. Is it possible to add a thin sheet of stainless on top of the damper to increase the diameter just a bit? (I have no idea if that would be safe or possible or not. That’s why I’m asking.)

 

[davidmsem]

Well, part of the issue is those big holes in the plate...that and the fact that it's only 5.5" diam (but that's pretty typical I think) I'm sure you seen the pics others have posted where they had to block off those holes in the plate with fender washers...and I know I've heard of more than one chimney that actually had to have double dampers...but that was on a basement furnace install, not an insert...it would be very difficult to do double dampers on an insert stove.

Did you talk to the inspector yourself, or was it just the owner of the install company?

You have an email from PE that says that they recommend a damper in a high draft situation, right? I would think that if you showed that to a building inspector that they would not have any problem.

We used to live in a small city outside Washington, D.C., and we had to pull a permit for just about everything. It got expensive so we tried to combine a number of items at a time on a permit. The really great thing was, though, that the inspectors would actually come to your house and give you advice about what needed and didn’t need to be included or how to write things up. I understand that not all inspectors are so helpful, but we had really good experiences with ours. They were by the book folks but really mostly concerned about safety.

In our part of Texas there is no authority having jurisdiction to inspect anything, It’s bizarre to me, and it shows in the work that was done on our house before we bought it. We made sure that we had the safest install possible for our wood insert, but it took us about two years actually to accomplish it, and I had to make sure that I understood exactly what we needed. Anybody who told me that they didn’t do insulated liners wasn’t an option. We had two and a half cold winters during that time, and we are grateful to this day for being able to keep our house warm with wood now.

I'm trying to get another dealer to get documentation from Pacific Energy after Karen melted down when I asked about a damper. She talked about pulling the unit out forward not like an insert and had a complete emotional meltdown. The other dealers trying to get some documentation. I'm speaking directly with the building inspector. Don't want any problems.

I live in Connecticut where people like their government big, really big. You can't do much without the government.

That said I'm just really stunned at how much this thing drafts with those holes in the damper and the damper closed 100%.. I do not weld so I won't be able to weld over holes with stainless steel or other things that people talk about. So I'm really not sure what to do here. I think I'm just going to eat up units every 7 years or so maybe run the fan on high all the time to get more life out of these things. They just don't work in my application.

I appreciate the response.

 

[davidmsem]

Having multiple threads on these topics is not helping. You have some good data now to base assumptions on.

Comment #47 here has John Gulland's Florida Bungalow Syndrome article link that covers strong draft issues and solutions.:

Blaze King Princess 29 versus Pacific Summit LE - Insert Replacement for Regency I3100L

Love the cat next to the fire!!!! I'm an engineer, would love to test it. If you are serious I would pay the shipping. Extremely nice of you and I'm replacing a unit that went bad. Some here think it was drafting too much. I would return it right away. I have no immediate need for the gauge so...

www.hearth.com

(Gulland has a Summit).

And response #21 to your question in this thread covers air restriction on the Summit:

Pacific Energy Summit pedestal burn times question

Ok I've probably had 20 fires in this stove and I am lucky to get 5 hours on a fully loaded stove. I'm talking fire box full loaded north and south. I'm burning seasoned dry Fir (15-17%) which might be the problem but this stove seems to go through wood much faster than my last stove which was...

www.hearth.com

Thank you I thought they merged the threads and I posted one of the responses into the wrong one. My stress levels like pretty high over this. Trying to squeeze all this in amongst all other life duties.

 

[davidmsem]

I think @bholler also suggested closing the holes in the plate. Is it possible to add a thin sheet of stainless on top of the damper to increase the diameter just a bit? (I have no idea if that would be safe or possible or not. That’s why I’m asking.)

Yes he told me he welds stainless steel to the plate. Not sure where I can have that done but hopefully a local shop would if I wanted to. Complete nightmare.

 

[davidmsem]

Having multiple threads on these topics is not helping. You have some good data now to base assumptions on.

Comment #47 here has John Gulland's Florida Bungalow Syndrome article link that covers strong draft issues and solutions.:

Blaze King Princess 29 versus Pacific Summit LE - Insert Replacement for Regency I3100L

Love the cat next to the fire!!!! I'm an engineer, would love to test it. If you are serious I would pay the shipping. Extremely nice of you and I'm replacing a unit that went bad. Some here think it was drafting too much. I would return it right away. I have no immediate need for the gauge so...

www.hearth.com

(Gulland has a Summit).

And response #21 to your question in this thread covers air restriction on the Summit:

Pacific Energy Summit pedestal burn times question

Ok I've probably had 20 fires in this stove and I am lucky to get 5 hours on a fully loaded stove. I'm talking fire box full loaded north and south. I'm burning seasoned dry Fir (15-17%) which might be the problem but this stove seems to go through wood much faster than my last stove which was...

www.hearth.com

So it looks like it would be reasonably easy to choke the primary air for the Pacific energy Summit taking advantage of the outside air kit provision. That said, would there be some imbalance by choking the primary and letting the secondary flow fully? Would there be no effect by choking the primary because the secondary is still left unblocked?

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I'm trying to get another dealer to get documentation from Pacific Energy after Karen melted down when I asked about a damper. She talked about pulling the unit out forward not like an insert and had a complete emotional meltdown. The other dealers trying to get some documentation. I'm speaking directly with the building inspector. Don't want any problems.

I live in Connecticut where people like their government big, really big. You can't do much without the government.

That said I'm just really stunned at how much this thing drafts with those holes in the damper. I do not weld so I won't be able to weld over holes with stainless steel or other things that people talk about. So I'm really not sure what to do here. I think I'm just going to eat up units every 7 years or so maybe run the fan on high all the time to get more life out of these things. They just don't work in my application.

I appreciate the response.

I don’t weld either, and I’m never going to. I think people just screw in washers to close the holes. My question about a stainless steel circle was about making the diameter a bit larger, and I was imagining doing that with a nut and bolt through one of the holes. I totally confess to being pretty clueless in this area, so I have no idea if that’s possible or safe. That’s why I asked. Members like @bholler and @brenndatomu are much more qualified to advise. I can just ask.

I completely understand why you’re feeling stressed. The good news is you’re past the hardest part of winter, so you’ve got time to get it figured out this spring and summer, and you’ve still got some cold now and the Regency installed to see how draft is affected when you change parameters according to the expert advice here (not my advice, that is). I’ll just try to offer moral support when I can. (It’s kind of a joke in our house when I’ve dreamed up some way that my husband is going to repair something or install something that I’m on standby to hand him tools and offer moral support.)

Edited to add: It looks like you replied as I was typing my wordy response. Maybe the guy you talked to about the custom surround would have some ideas.

 

[davidmsem]

I don’t weld either, and I’m never going to. I think people just screw in washers to close the holes. My question about a stainless steel circle was about making the diameter a bit larger, and I was imagining doing that with a nut and bolt through one of the holes. I totally confess to being pretty clueless in this area, so I have no idea if that’s possible or safe. That’s why I asked. Members like @bholler and @brenndatomu are much more qualified to advise. I can just ask.

I completely understand why you’re feeling stressed. The good news is you’re past the hardest part of winter, so you’ve got time to get it figured out this spring and summer, and you’ve still got some cold now and the Regency installed to see how draft is affected when you change parameters according to the expert advice here (not my advice, that is). I’ll just try to offer moral support when I can. (It’s kind of a joke in our house when I’ve dreamed up some way that my husband is going to repair something or install something that I’m on standby to hand him tools and offer moral support.)

Edited to add: It looks like you replied as I was typing my wordy response. Maybe the guy you talked to about the custom surround would have some ideas.

Thank you for the support. Appreciated. Not sure if the best thing is to just take the warranty unit that does not fit my firewood and cut all my firewood, 14 chords. My units are going to run hot here and have short life and I'm going to go through many of them over the years. Even fully dampened it was only down about 20% draft so this flue is just a vacuum.

So I can spend like six grand for a new one, or just struggle with cutting 2 in off of 14 cord of firewood again and take the smaller Regency unit and use that. It won't put out as much heat but still make the family room very warm where we hang out in the evening. Dropping six grand on another unit that's going to over fire just seems kind of silly.

 

[bholler]

I generally just use rivets to attach stainless over the holes if needed

 

[begreen]

So it looks like it would be reasonably easy to choke the primary air for the Pacific energy Summit taking advantage of the outside air kit provision. That said, would there be some imbalance by choking the primary and letting the secondary flow fully? Would there be no effect by choking the primary because the secondary is still left unblocked?

The secondary on the Summit is barometrically regulated, so yes, the intake port for that also may need restriction. This might be mitigated by having the damper in place, with a semi-permanent, partial restriction, say 70%. Regardless of stove, there is going to be a degree of field trialing to get this right.

The Regency i2700 also might work. It has an air restrictor plate that may handle this situation. bholler would know more about how well it works in strong draft situations and there is a group of owners here too.

 

[davidmsem]

The secondary on the Summit is barometrically regulated, so yes, the intake port for that also may need restriction. This might be mitigated by having the damper in place, with a semi-permanent, partial restriction, say 70%. Regardless of stove, there is going to be a degree of field trialing to get this right.

The Regency i2700 also might work. It has an air restrictor plate that may handle this situation. bholler would know more about how well it works in strong draft situations and there is a group of owners here too.

Thank you. I tried to appeal to Regency to replace the 3100 that developed cracks with and i-2700. It's just the same size unit in terms of the firebox and I have 14 cord of wood already cut. Regency's response was cut the wood and we are giving you a suitable unit. If I end up with the smaller regency unit being used I will cuss Regency for every one of those logs I cut in those 14 cords.

 

[stoveliker]

Regarding closing the holes in the damper, if you don't want to rivet, ust get a small diameter bolt and associated nut, and two large (1") dia washers with a small hole. Use the bolt and nut to clamp the washers on both sides of the damper plate, covering the holes. Tighten them (to the point of the washers bending a bit, and you're good. Best to get a good spring washer in there too.

 

[brenndatomu]

Yes he told me he welds stainless steel to the plate. Not sure where I can have that done but hopefully a local shop would if I wanted to. Complete nightmare.

I'd like to know how he does that...cast iron is hard to weld, and welding stainless to cheap cast (probably the cheapest china pot metal ever) would be a real trick! I'd stick with mechanical fasteners screw/bolt/rivet/etc

 

[bholler]

I'd like to know how he does that...cast iron is hard to weld, and welding stainless to cheap cast (probably the cheapest china pot metal ever) would be a real trick! I'd stick with mechanical fasteners screw/bolt/rivet/etc

I didn't say I welded it. I rivet the stainless on

 

[brenndatomu]

I didn't say I welded it. I rivet the stainless on

Oh I thought he meant the local welder did that...but I see now that he said you do that...but I understood that you rivet.
I take it you drill the damper plate and rivet right to it...or rivet the 2 sides of SS to each other? I assume you use SS rivets too?

 

[bholler]

Oh I thought he meant the local welder did that...but I see now that he said you do that...but I understood that you rivet.
I take it you drill the damper plate and rivet right to it...or rivet the 2 sides of SS to each other? I assume you use SS rivets too?

I drill the plate. And yes ss rivets. I don't have any that aren't ss. I only attach it to one side

 

[begreen]

Thank you. I tried to appeal to Regency to replace the 3100 that developed cracks with and i-2700. It's just the same size unit in terms of the firebox and I have 14 cord of wood already cut. Regency's response was cut the wood and we are giving you a suitable unit. If I end up with the smaller regency unit being used I will cuss Regency for every one of those logs I cut in those 14 cords.

Why not sell the i2450 and apply the cash to the i2700? Between the sale of the 3100 and the 2450 you should come out ahead.

 

[bholler]

Why not sell the i2450 and apply the cash to the i2700? Between the sale of the 3100 and the 2450 you should come out ahead.

He can't sell the 3100.

 

[davidmsem]

Why not sell the i2450 and apply the cash to the i2700? Between the sale of the 3100 and the 2450 you should come out ahead.

The 2450 is for sale. I think the 3100 I'm just going to toss in the junk. Not even sure what a fair price on that unit would be. 3100 does have an extra blower that I never used.

Don't really want a Regency unit. They are making me go through hell and could have just given me allowance towards the other one. Left a rather bitter taste. One dealer told me they get warranty claims but they've never had one on a Pacific energy summit. Not sure how true it is but once bit and twice shy.