Regency l3100 Cracks

[stoveliker]

Thank you, but I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying the hole for the draft gauge would allow smoke to come back out? Assuming that's what you mean a full-time dedicated draft gauge running with the stove.

No, he means you need to be able to change the damper setting because if you keep it half-closed all the time, you may have smoke rolling out of the insert when you open the door. So open the damper fully before you open the door and set it for the proper draft (weather related) after you reloaded.

 

[EbS-P]

Thank you, but I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying the hole for the draft gauge would allow smoke to come back out? Assuming that's what you mean a full-time dedicated draft gauge running with the stove.

Ideally I would set a fix damper position using a draft gauge to measure the draft and confirm it is in spec at at or near a high burn rate. The in theory would mean you never need to adjust the damper. But I don’t see that working with a damper so close to the insert.

My smoke rollout the door when opening occurs when the damper is closed more than 60 degrees and I have active flames. Not related to measuring draft

 

[davidmsem]

I just spoke with the owner of the store that sells the blaze king princess insert 29 that I'm looking at. He said I have never had a problem with these overdrafting and The dealer does not want to install a damper. He said if we run into an issue we will contact Blaze King. This makes me nervous about doing an install right now with this dealer. Dealers just want to jam them in and don't want to do a good job.

Anybody know anybody in Connecticut that can do a quality installation? The way you speak about installations here with dampers and everything is like another language to the dealers I am engaging with. Makes this extremely frustrating.

 

[EbS-P]

I just spoke with the owner of the store that sells the blaze king princess insert 29 that I'm looking at. He said I have never had a problem with these overdrafting and The dealer does not want to install a damper. He said if we run into an issue we will contact Blaze King. This makes me nervous about doing an install right now with this dealer. Dealers just want to jam them in and don't want to do a good job.

Anybody know anybody in Connecticut that can do equality installation? The way you speak about installations here with dampers and everything is like another language to the dealers I am engaging with. Makes this extremely frustrating.

@BKVP in a previous thread/ post would not recommend a damper as, and I am paraphrasing here, As a manufacturer the EPA rules about altering the burn rate are punishable/enforced at their level. To my knowledge EPA has never had any enforcement action on an installer. So as the user you are left unsupported if your dealer/installer doesn’t want to install one. BK might say your draft is out of spec and we can’t help until it is in spec and leave you on your own to fix the outta spec draft. I do believe they have draft specs published in the manual.

I installed mine myself. Center punch the adapter drill small pilot hole. 10-12” long 1/4” drill bit keeping it as centered and straight as I could with a carpenters square. I the front and out the back.

With 30-35’ I I’m guessing you will have ash plugging your cat more often than normal. Can the BK thermostat compensate for the extra draft I can’t answer.

Making sure install is drafting to spec is the installers job. Remind them of that.

 

[brenndatomu]

I just spoke with the owner of the store that sells the blaze king princess insert 29 that I'm looking at. He said I have never had a problem with these overdrafting and The dealer does not want to install a damper. He said if we run into an issue we will contact Blaze King. This makes me nervous about doing an install right now with this dealer. Dealers just want to jam them in and don't want to do a good job.

Anybody know anybody in Connecticut that can do equality installation? The way you speak about installations here with dampers and everything is like another language to the dealers I am engaging with. Makes this extremely frustrating.

Man, this has to be frustrating! Sure glad I DIY my installs...I might tend to overkill things though...

 

[stoveliker]

Blaze King dealers (contractually) don't go outside "their service area". So if the one you spoke to is your area, it's unlikely another one would be willing to work on this.

Many BKs are installed with dampers.

The EPA argument is flawed (not saying EbS-P is saying things, he is just repeating) - a "letter of the law" argument. The EPA does not allow altering burn rates. But burn rates are tested at a certain chimney length = draft. Installing in another draft situation therefore needs changing the draft *in order to be compliant with the set up that was approved as tested*. That could mean adding chimney height (no one complains about that) or decreasing draft. As taking chimney height off is generally not possible, a damper is the solution *to bring the installation up to tested specs*.

The letter of the law exposes installer to enforcement. And this is a case of the law overshooting its intention.

The enforcement should *not* be "no damper" but should be "draft d x < d < y" (i.e. draft is in the range x-y) - I understand weather conditions matter, so one could say "in that range when a fire is going full blast and the outside temps are between 20 and 40 F" or so.
It adds complexity (caveats), but it's better than the overshooting nonsense that is current law.

 

[EbS-P]

Here is the actual thread. Had a moment to find it.

Are Dampers Legal?

As an active participant in these forums, I often see references to the use of dampers. I receive PM's and emails from consumers every once in a while asking if they should install a damper. I don't respond to those inquiries. As a manufacturer, we follow the Federal Register (law) as it...

www.hearth.com

 

[davidmsem]

Thank you all for the encouragement to push on and continue to work.​

Draft results below:​

@MongoMongoson thank you much for the loan of the testing meter.​

 

[begreen]

Well done. Very strong draft verified. I suspect the flue temp in the liner has also been exceptionally high.

 

[stoveliker]

Good job indeed!
... Damper... Also for a BK, I suggest.

 

[begreen]

There are two approaches to remedy this. A damper to restrict the flue or reduce the air supply.

Florida Bungalow Syndrome

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah that's a lil high...

 

[davidmsem]

Thank you. I'm guessing from what I have read the upper limit is 0.1? Does that include room for the wind to affect as well as you can see from these measurements? We got lucky on a windy day so these would be average results and sometimes I think it might even draw more. There are loads that are hotter than this. There was no oak in this and it was only 80% full and two really punky pieces.

First I have to get a dealer to work with me who will recognize this and want to remedy it. All stare at me as I'm speaking in some foreign tongue.

Personally I would rather strict the airflow going into the unit, but I've read mixed results about this so that's confusing as well. Looking at the Pacific Energy Summit LE insert as well as a blaze king princess 29 insert.

Did I waste energy with a draft this high? In other words if I was able to control the temperature a bit more on the temperature climb up by restricting the air flow, would I have gotten more BTU out in total? I can see that I would have gotten longer burn times and more even release of BTUs. Sometimes it can get up to 90° in this room.

This clearly explains why the unit over fired. I contacted Regency along the way and they say no problems with a 35 ft flue so I feel redeemed that I operated the stove properly.

I think one of the members lives over in Long Island. I'm tempted to pay the extra to get him over here to Connecticut and do it install if he was interested. That might be @bholler . . . Not sure if he owns a store or what. Dealers here do not speak his language.

 

[EbS-P]

Real data. Gotta love it. Now you know what needs to be done.

As far as air restriction that really depends on the design. My insert has separate primary and secondary air inlets. Restricting the secondary was easy. But then i had way to much primary and air wash down the door. Couldn’t seem to balance them correctly. A damper always keeps the factory primary secondary balance. So you d the insert had a well sealed OAK you could in theory use a 3 or 4” blast gate but at that point why not just use a damper. It’s not complicated to use. Install just takes some thought and problem solving and basic DIY fabrication.

I think a damper would be easier to use day in and out than an air restriction in the inlet.

 

[stoveliker]

^^that.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm guessing from what I have read the upper limit is 0.1

Depends on the appliance...wood furnaces range from -0.02" to -0.06" (0.04-0.06 is most common) with a max peak of -0.08" on some models...so -.1" would be considered too much...but I think -.1" might be OK with some stoves.

Did I waste energy with a draft this high? In other words if I was able to control the temperature a bit more on the temperature climb up by restricting the air flow, would I have gotten more BTU out in total?

Yes.

 

[davidmsem]

Real data. Gotta love it. Now you know what needs to be done.

As far as air restriction that really depends on the design. My insert has separate primary and secondary air inlets. Restricting the secondary was easy. But then i had way to much primary and air wash down the door. Couldn’t seem to balance them correctly. A damper always keeps the factory primary secondary balance. So you d the insert had a well sealed OAK you could in theory use a 3 or 4” blast gate but at that point why not just use a damper. It’s not complicated to use. Install just takes some thought and problem solving and basic DIY fabrication.

I think a damper would be easier to use day in and out than an air restriction in the inlet.

Thank you so much. I am a do-it-yourselfer, built most of this house, wiring, etc. But did not want to do this install. But if I have to I will I guess. You guys are always ahead of me and I'm playing a catch up. I did not know about the balance between primary and secondary so that strengthens the case for a damper in conjunction with our unit here. There is only 6 you 8 in above the Pacific energy Summit Le until where it hits the block off plate. 6 in above the unit at the fireplace opening. Very tight place to work. Plus it looks like the guy should have used a 35 ft flu and used a 30 and it's about maybe 6 in to a foot shorter than he wanted it to be. That's why I didn't mind paying for the install if somebody knew what they were doing.

And the number is 0.1 Max that we are looking for correct?

Separating it wouldn't be that bad with a damper, open it when you open the door slowly choke it when it's coming up to temp.

Wonder if properly set up if I will get more even heat and wonder if I will get more BTUs out of the unit.

 

[davidmsem]

Yeah that's a lil high...

Is the upper limit 0.1? I sent email to Pacific energy to ask that regarding the summit Le insert and also left a message for the technician at blaze King to see what the princess has for limits.

 

[stoveliker]

Is the upper limit 0.1? I sent email to Pacific energy to ask that regarding the summit Le insert and also left a message for the technician at blaze King to see what the princess has for limits.

@kennyp2339 ? Damper, draft, princess (insert tho).

 

[kennyp2339]

@kennyp2339 ? Damper, draft, princess (insert tho).

Not to sure, I know @bholler has installed a few dampers on liners, rigged up long rods to adjust the damper positions since usually inserts have bad access to the outlet.

 

[stoveliker]

Not to sure, I know @bholler has installed a few dampers on liners, rigged up long rods to adjust the damper positions since usually inserts have bad access to the outlet.

But what draft value do princesses need? It's not in the current manual, I believe?

 

[kennyp2339]

Is the upper limit 0.1? I sent email to Pacific energy to ask that regarding the summit Le insert and also left a message for the technician at blaze King to see what the princess has for limits.

.05wc while the stove is running at high is the target, my stove was .18wc so basically 3x over target, installed 2 dampers, only really use one though and ride .06-.08wc and that has made such a big impact on my stove, the way it burns and lets out heat.

 

[EbS-P]

.05wc while the stove is running at high is the target, my stove was .18wc so basically 3x over target, installed 2 dampers, only really use one though and ride .06-.08wc and that has made such a big impact on my stove, the way it burns and lets out heat.

If you need two dampers on an insert I’m not sure how that could be done. Appliance adapter to rigid section to…..? One might consider blocking holes in the damper plate before adding a second.

sounds like an excuse for a tig welder

 

[begreen]

I think a damper would be easier to use day in and out than an air restriction in the inlet.

As noted, this varies with the insert design. Some are easier than others.

But what draft value do princesses need? It's not in the current manual, I believe?

From the pre-2020 Princess manual: Draft ranging from .02" to .10" wc is suggested for normal operation.

 

[davidmsem]

.05wc while the stove is running at high is the target, my stove was .18wc so basically 3x over target, installed 2 dampers, only really use one though and ride .06-.08wc and that has made such a big impact on my stove, the way it burns and lets out heat.

0.18, you're in the minor leagues. I cruise at 0.22 and peg the meter when it's windy outside. Blaze King dealer says I don't need a damper. No way it's going to perform. Pacific energy dealers are telling me the same thing. Don't need a damper. The people in this forum and the dealers live on different planets. There are different laws of nature and physics when I go talk to these people.

If anyone knows of installer in Connecticut who's reputable and would work with me I would have them do the job. Just want it done right at this point.