RE: All wheel drive question
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bobdog2o02
Minister of Fire
Nope, no euro trash for me, I service my FIL's M3. Garbage, designed to not be serviceable except the dealer. I love my subies, wouldn't trade for anything, period.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Lol... You are in a very small minority, calling one of the most desired cars of all time "Euro trash."
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
I don't even own a Subaru but i'd have to say, you'd be hard pressed to find one with similar reliability and value. The Audis are the next in like and they are a disaster,,which is why the resale value plummets after the warranty expires.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
We owned a 2002 S6 and a 2006 A3, and they were both fantastic cars. Much more fun than any Subaru I've ever driven (yes... I've driven the Impreza WRX STi kids junk), and much more nicely outfitted. They're not marketed at the folks looking to get 12 years and 200,000 miles out of a car. Different market, different buyer. We resold each before the warranty expired, which is the same I'd do with a Subie, anyway... so why not buy the more enjoyable car to drive?
Put a quarter million miles on a an '86 4000csq and another quarter million miles on a '90 90 20v, so I must admit I know nothing firsthand about resale value. But as for reliability, neither vehicle required anything beyond normal expendable stuff.
The original claim was "no other car offers as good a combination of handling and the ability to handle poor road conditions", and having driven the Audis and the wife's Subaru extensively here in Syracuse, in actual poor road conditions, I can tell you authoritatively that such claims are made only by persons who know little of handling or of poor road conditions.
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Because I don't earn enough to spend $50 000++ on a car
And btw, the STi isn't "kids junk". LOL. IT was designed after the most world renown WRC car that subaru built in the 1990s and 2000s. We can't control who buys em, even if it is all kids. LOL.
The WRX is a nice car..for $35 000 (CAD), you can't get many cars with 265+ Hp and AWD...other than a Chrysler 200 AWD.
A
Because I don't earn enough to spend $50 000++ on a car
And btw, the STi isn't "kids junk". LOL. IT was designed after the most world renown WRC car that subaru built in the 1990s and 2000s. We can't control who buys em, even if it is all kids. LOL.
The WRX is a nice car..for $35 000 (CAD), you can't get many cars with 265+ Hp and AWD...other than a Chrysler 200 AWD.
A
Always liked the look and specs of the WRX and STI . . . never cared much for the over the top rear spoiler and hood scoop . . . even if they are functional . . . or moderately functional.
As a 44 year old I must confess I kinda like the look of the 2015 WRX simply because it has a more grown up look about it . . . although I really, really liked the concept car sketches that they first revealed.
Just to be clear, I'm only arguing that the Audi is a better combination of handling and limited traction capabilities, not that the best car is the best choice. The quattros have just been getting heavier and heavier, more and more powerful, and ever more expensive and luxurious. If I was spending a lot of time on the Autobahn it might be worthwhile, but this last time around we went with the Impreza, which makes a lot more sense if all you're trying to do is get to work alive and running through a salt bath four months out of the year.
In '84 you could get a 4000s quattro four door sedan that weighed 2450 pounds with a one electric window on the driver's door and cranks on the other three windows and the moon roof. Manual locking diffs in the rear and in the center, air-conditoining, and an FM radio. 115 HP and it would run 115-120 mph all day long. (I think the only real differences between it and a VW was two more drive wheels, one more cylinder, and forged connecting rods.)
I doubt they make anything that tips the scales at less then 3400 pounds any more. (My '61 Catalina was 'only' 3700 pounds!)
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Especially after they took away the the Forrester sleepers that were lighter and more powerful than a WRX at the time.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Well, I guess we can all agree that AWD is where it's at. Subaru, Audi, Mercedes, BMW and Volvo all have pretty good AWD systems, Subaru being the entry price level, with some very impressive performance.
We actually abandoned Audi on our last purchase, having intended to buy an A4 wagon with AWD, mostly because they would not offer their most powerful engine combo with a manual transmission in that chassis. However, I did notice that Audi's pricing has skipped up noticably, with no matching improvement in their spec's or warranty. Likely reflecting the swarms of douche-bag yuppies that have suddenly decided BMW is "out" and Audi is "in", right now.
We went with Volvo, which is not nearly as nice to drive as the BMW or Audi, but is fast as a ***** date in a straight line. It's also probably the only one truly rivaling Mercedes on safety, and by that I don't just mean designing to pass a few BS safety tests, but truly focusing their entire design process on safety.
Good thing... the reason I've owned so many Euro sports sedans and wagons over the last 15 years is that my wife tends to roll one over or otherwise total it every 2 - 3 years. Last year she hit the house with the Volvo.
We actually abandoned Audi on our last purchase, having intended to buy an A4 wagon with AWD, mostly because they would not offer their most powerful engine combo with a manual transmission in that chassis. However, I did notice that Audi's pricing has skipped up noticably, with no matching improvement in their spec's or warranty. Likely reflecting the swarms of douche-bag yuppies that have suddenly decided BMW is "out" and Audi is "in", right now.
We went with Volvo, which is not nearly as nice to drive as the BMW or Audi, but is fast as a ***** date in a straight line. It's also probably the only one truly rivaling Mercedes on safety, and by that I don't just mean designing to pass a few BS safety tests, but truly focusing their entire design process on safety.
Good thing... the reason I've owned so many Euro sports sedans and wagons over the last 15 years is that my wife tends to roll one over or otherwise total it every 2 - 3 years. Last year she hit the house with the Volvo.
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...snip...
We went with Volvo, which is not nearly as nice to drive as the BMW or Audi, but is fast as a ***** date in a straight line. It's also probably the only one truly rivaling Mercedes on safety, and by that I don't just mean designing to pass a few BS safety tests, but truly focusing their entire design process on safety.
Good thing... the reason I've owned so many Euro sports sedans and wagons over the last 15 years is that my wife tends to roll one over or otherwise total it every 2 - 3 years. Last year she hit the house with the Volvo.
Even though I classify myself as a "Subie person", I'd still rate the European cars higher on rollover protection & quality of their drivers' seats. I attribute this to lousy US safety standards. For roof crush resistance (as in the case of a rollover), US safety standards require that a vehicle's roof withstand a STATIC load (carefully & gently applied). Imagine gently placing a heavy weight onto a sturdy flat sheet of something perched on a car's roof. Contrast this with the European safety standard test, which requires that the vehicle be accelerated towards a ramp, which flips/tumbles the vehicle.
US built + Japanese built vehicles also suck at driver's seat-back collapse. If you have a driver sitting in the driver's seat, and the vehicle is struck from the rear at a decent speed, the driver's seat back can collapse. Even if a seat belt is in use, the driver can be ejected from the seat. I've seen this with both US and Japanese built vehicles.
Having run as a volunteer paramedic for 19+ years, before doing the ICU-RN thing, I've seen what happens to cars in wrecks. Lower US safety standards can put US drivers at risk. NOTE that my comments are based on what I saw until I stopped running medic (about 6 years ago). IF US safety standards have increased in the meantime (which I sort of doubt), then my points might be moot.
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I remember that...ouch.
My father is a Volvo maniac. I had the chance to drive his S70T5 in high school. Great car! I must say they are more comfortable and safer than a Japanese or NA car. But his XC70 was a lemon (and it happens with all cars). Before 80000 KMs he had replaced 3 wheel bearings, the front passenger coil spring, ABS control module and a few other little things.
I do remember this Volvo USA commercial quite well!
I appreciate how Volvo has roll bars in each car (should be standard). I remember when I was 19 coming upon a woman who was struck on the side in her S70 (she had cut off a car who had the right to go straight) and the car flipped onto the roof. She had an open sunroof and long hair. Her hair had to be cut to get her out: her hair hung out the roof was the car was flipping and got pinned under the car! She was scared but no physical injuries whatsoever.
Andrew
re the comment up above about STi's being kids toys....
Ive had the chance to ride in and drive WRX's (work buddy), a heavily modded STi and an S4 (post-college roomate) - all early 2000s vintage. Also an M3 of similar vintage but that is not relevant (RWD).
I would say that of all of them the STi was probably the most beastly in terms of power, feel was so so... handling I cant honestly say as I'm not reckless enough to push any of these vehicles to their performance limit on a public road- I'd like to stay out of jail thank you.
OTOH the STi was the least comfortable of them to live with, by far.. And in terms of creature comforts and interior design the Subies felt about 2 decades behind the Audi. So as an adult I would probably choose the Audi, if not for the fact its owner tended to drive a dealer loaner about as often as his S4!
I think Joful said it above... the Germans market these cars more toward the 3 year lease crowd... and if I was one of them Id buy an Audi in a heartbeat. I tend to drive my cars 10-15 years though and unless something is changed I'm still nervous rolling the dice past warranty on a German make.
Ive had the chance to ride in and drive WRX's (work buddy), a heavily modded STi and an S4 (post-college roomate) - all early 2000s vintage. Also an M3 of similar vintage but that is not relevant (RWD).
I would say that of all of them the STi was probably the most beastly in terms of power, feel was so so... handling I cant honestly say as I'm not reckless enough to push any of these vehicles to their performance limit on a public road- I'd like to stay out of jail thank you.
OTOH the STi was the least comfortable of them to live with, by far.. And in terms of creature comforts and interior design the Subies felt about 2 decades behind the Audi. So as an adult I would probably choose the Audi, if not for the fact its owner tended to drive a dealer loaner about as often as his S4!
I think Joful said it above... the Germans market these cars more toward the 3 year lease crowd... and if I was one of them Id buy an Audi in a heartbeat. I tend to drive my cars 10-15 years though and unless something is changed I'm still nervous rolling the dice past warranty on a German make.
Other thought... when we start talking about Volvos and safety and people who say they wouldn't trust anything but.... I have to wonder again, how they heck did any of us make it out of the 70's alive?
Sure I can believe that Volvos are safer... but I would think that even the cheapest car today with its stability control, traction control, 87 airbags and crumple zones and cameras and so forth is safer than anything on the planet just 10 years ago. Some of the things they are doing now, like brakes and steering with a mind of their own, i think are getting excessive. We have so many gizmos and aids now people dont actually learn how to drive appropriate to the conditions anymore - just gun it and trust the gizmos to keep you out of the ditch. I think that is dangerous thinking.
Sure I can believe that Volvos are safer... but I would think that even the cheapest car today with its stability control, traction control, 87 airbags and crumple zones and cameras and so forth is safer than anything on the planet just 10 years ago. Some of the things they are doing now, like brakes and steering with a mind of their own, i think are getting excessive. We have so many gizmos and aids now people dont actually learn how to drive appropriate to the conditions anymore - just gun it and trust the gizmos to keep you out of the ditch. I think that is dangerous thinking.
Just gotta throw my two cents out there. The female teachers at my school love Subaru: Three Outbacks, five Forresters, and one Impreza. I've been disappointed by the fit and finish of each one of them. Thin and light doors, airy interior, road and engine noise, etc. There is no doubt that they are a value (AWD, a sunroof, and solid reliability for $25K!) but don't come close to any of the marques. Not close in AWD system (Quattro vs. "Symmetrical"? Please...), not close in comfort, not close in ride or fit and finish quality, etc. They're great VALUES.
Pisses me off that they keep winning the Mount Washington Auto Road Race, though!
Pisses me off that they keep winning the Mount Washington Auto Road Race, though!
Ashful
Minister of Fire
The ones that weren't in high speed collisions survived... many of those who were did not.
Most of the safety devices to which we have become accustomed today were first engineered and implemented by Volvo and Mercedes. They have been the leaders on safety innovation for three decades, or more. This is a big part of the cost of these vehicles, long-range R&D is very expensive.
Interior design (I don't get too awfully upset with whether there is soft touch materials or what the radio knobs look like -- heck I could even live with Subaru's baby poo brown interior colors on their dashes) . . . electronic doodads (I still use a flip phone -- and have no idea of what the number is so having a bazillion ways to listen to music, connect to the internet or insure I am in a climate controlled environment that would rival the space station is not crucial) . . . what the Jones' are driving (never been a big fan of trying to impress folks with what I drive) . . . I honestly care nothing for these things.
What I value the most . . . reliability, safety and to a degree performance (i.e. if I am buying an econobox for the fuel economy and low price I don't expect it to have a super 0-60 time, but if I am buying a pick up the tow and payload ratings are important.)
Based on my limited experience . . . since I am not one of those folks who is buying a new car every other year . . . I have found that in general the Japanese branded vehicles tend to meet my own particular needs . . . my needs . . . and wants . . . needs and wants that other folks may not share and that's fine . . . nothing wrong with folks needing or wanting other things in a vehicle.
What I value the most . . . reliability, safety and to a degree performance (i.e. if I am buying an econobox for the fuel economy and low price I don't expect it to have a super 0-60 time, but if I am buying a pick up the tow and payload ratings are important.)
Based on my limited experience . . . since I am not one of those folks who is buying a new car every other year . . . I have found that in general the Japanese branded vehicles tend to meet my own particular needs . . . my needs . . . and wants . . . needs and wants that other folks may not share and that's fine . . . nothing wrong with folks needing or wanting other things in a vehicle.
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