RE: All wheel drive question

[Ashful]

I am in no way disputing how they handle the elements....

After watching my boss who only buys Audis have to replace an AT on each one and electrical gremlins I would never touch one myself. They are probably good lease cars though. I would certainly never own one without a warranty. IIRC he had one not under warranty and transmission rebuild was $6K.

I think you named the problem: automatic transmission. Unfortunately, Audi won't offer their wagons with AWD and manual trans, anymore, so we actually switched over to Volvo on our last purchase. The V50 doesn't handle as nice as the A4, but it is much faster than Audi's two engine options.

 

[CrufflerJJ]

Were the 2002 WRX manual transmissions weak or did I have an overly abusive co-worker? He broke 3 of them.

I don't know about 2002, but I drove my 2003 WRX for about 230K miles, and had the original clutch in it when I sold the car. I suspect that your co-worker was doing "clutch drops" from 4000-5000 RPM. Not good.

As to Subarus in general...

We're a Subie family. Our first was a 1999 Outback, now with about 200K miles on it. We kept it as a "backup" car about 5 years ago, and that was a good decision. It runs just fine.

I got a 2003 WRX wagon, and drove it until I had about 230K miles on it, at which time it was sold to a college student. I still miss my turbo!

My wife got a gently used 2007 Outback, and drove it until it was totaled late last year by another driver turning into her path.

My WRX was replaced by a 2013 Forester.

My wife's 2007 Outback was replaced recently by a 2010 Forester.

All our Subies do well in the snow, but I will say that the stock tires tend to SUCK. My WRX came with Bridgestone RE92's, and they were crap even on wet pavement. My Forester has Bridgestone tires on it, and they are marginal (to be polite) on snow. I ran Kumho or Hankook all season tires on my WRX (and had a set of Dunlop winter tires on spare rims). I'll wait till my current tires get more wear on them, and will replace them with better tires.

In terms of Subaru quality, they seem to make good cars EXCEPT for the engine head gaskets. The 1999 Outback had a head gasket failure at about 5 years & 90,000 miles, costing us ~$2500 in repairs. My 2003 WRX had a leaking head gasket when I sold it. It had been questionable (leaking oil onto the exhaust manifold) for the last 100K miles of use. My wife's 2007 Outback head gasket failed at about 90K miles, WARPING one of the heads so much that it couldn't be milled flat. Of course, after $3500 in engine work, the car was totaled a few months later.

I wrote a letter to Tom Doll, President/COO of Subaru, grumbling about spending $$$$$$ on head gasket failures.

Never got a response

Love...feel the Subaru "love"....apparently, Subaru is getting a bit big for its britches and doesn't feel the need to respond to a multi-vehicle customer of 15+ years.

Subaru has changed the engine & head gasket designs multiple times...maybe they'll eventually get it right. We still like our Subies, despite having to save $$$ for the inevitable head gasket failures.

 

[spirilis]

I don't know about 2002, but I drove my 2003 WRX for about 230K miles, and had the original clutch in it when I sold the car. I suspect that your co-worker was doing "clutch drops" from 4000-5000 RPM. Not good.

As to Subarus in general...

We're a Subie family. Our first was a 1999 Outback, now with about 200K miles on it. We kept it as a "backup" car about 5 years ago, and that was a good decision. It runs just fine.

I got a 2003 WRX wagon, and drove it until I had about 230K miles on it, at which time it was sold to a college student. I still miss my turbo!

My wife got a gently used 2007 Outback, and drove it until it was totaled late last year by another driver turning into her path.

My WRX was replaced by a 2013 Forester.

My wife's 2007 Outback was replaced recently by a 2010 Forester.

All our Subies do well in the snow, but I will say that the stock tires tend to SUCK. My WRX came with Bridgestone RE92's, and they were crap even on wet pavement. My Forester has Bridgestone tires on it, and they are marginal (to be polite) on snow. I ran Kumho or Hankook all season tires on my WRX (and had a set of Dunlop winter tires on spare rims). I'll wait till my current tires get more wear on them, and will replace them with better tires.

In terms of Subaru quality, they seem to make good cars EXCEPT for the engine head gaskets. The 1999 Outback had a head gasket failure at about 5 years & 90,000 miles, costing us ~$2500 in repairs. My 2003 WRX had a leaking head gasket when I sold it. It had been questionable (leaking oil onto the exhaust manifold) for the last 100K miles of use. My wife's 2007 Outback head gasket failed at about 90K miles, WARPING one of the heads so much that it couldn't be milled flat. Of course, after $3500 in engine work, the car was totaled a few months later.

I wrote a letter to Tom Doll, President/COO of Subaru, grumbling about spending $$$$$$ on head gasket failures.

Never got a response

Love...feel the Subaru "love"....apparently, Subaru is getting a bit big for its britches and doesn't feel the need to respond to a multi-vehicle customer of 15+ years.

Subaru has changed the engine & head gasket designs multiple times...maybe they'll eventually get it right. We still like our Subies, despite having to save $$$ for the inevitable head gasket failures.

I'd heard the head gasket issues stopped after 06 or so. My 08 has been solid so far. I did read about rapid piston ring wear from '11-'13 or so though.

 

[bobdog2o02]

I'd heard the head gasket issues stopped after 06 or so. My 08 has been solid so far. I did read about rapid piston ring wear from '11-'13 or so though.

Head gaskets are known issue until at the change over in '11, its a trade for ring wear I suppose.

 

[bobdog2o02]

The new subies might soon look like old old hondas with the black spot at the tailpipe.

 

[Charlotte987]

Subaru forester here, second year with all wheel drive. Had a Jeep cherokee before this, loved the Jeep although it really had a truck body and its turning radius is not so good. You really have to think when your driving the Jeep, and make allowances for ice, snow, bad weather, ruts, all of it, you really feel the road, and do I turn on the four wheel drive on not? I don't have to consider so much when I'm driving the Subaru, it compensates automatically, which is amazing, I've never slipped or skidded with this car, the awd takes over and I don't have to concern myself so much with the driving conditions unless they are really bad. The Subaru has that funny little boxer engine which has less power/acceleration than I was used to with the Jeep but I don't really need it so much, except on the hills. The gas savings have been great, and fewer trips to the gas station to fill up are a bonus.

I researched this car for months before I bought the 2010 Forester, drove the new Jeeps, and various others. I had certain criteria, low on gas, it had to be comfortable enough for my husband to drive, as my husband's over six feet. It had to have heated seats and a remote starter, which it does. It's turned out well, and I've seen many older Subaru's on the road, some older that ten years old, that was another reason, they seem to last, and they seem to be good value.

 

[Swedishchef]

I also have a 2010 Forester..they're great! Except when your son turns on a dome light without you noticing...a dome light on for 26 hours in -25 temperature makes for a very unhappy battery!!

WHere in Northern Quebec do you live? kuujjuaq?

Andrew

 

[CrufflerJJ]

I also have a 2010 Forester..they're great! Except when your son turns on a dome light without you noticing...a dome light on for 26 hours in -25 temperature makes for a very unhappy battery!!

If the dome light being left on is a continuing issue, you can always replace the stock dome light bulb with a LED lamp, which should draw less current. Before it was totaled, I replaced the dome lamp in my wife's 2007 Outback with a LED version. This was done due to the Sylvania "long life" bulbs burning out too frequently. The LED lamp gave a nice bright light.

 

[RustyShackleford]

If the dome light being left on is a continuing issue, you can always replace the stock dome light bulb with a LED lamp, which should draw less current.

Hurray for replacing your lights with LEDs ! I replaced my dome light, maps lights, and puddle lights (along lower edge of doors) with LED bulbs from superbrightleds.com. They use so little juice I can leave 'em burning for days - very useful since I car camp a lot.

Also, I did a mod where when you turn on your dome light, the map lights come on too; very useful if you have the sunroof, because the dome light is way to far to the rear to be much use in the front seat. Details at legacygt.com

 

[Swedishchef]

If the dome light being left on is a continuing issue, you can always replace the stock dome light bulb with a LED lamp, which should draw less current. Before it was totaled, I replaced the dome lamp in my wife's 2007 Outback with a LED version. This was done due to the Sylvania "long life" bulbs burning out too frequently. The LED lamp gave a nice bright light.

It was my son who turned on the light without me noticing

 

[Ashful]

It was my son who turned on the light without me noticing

Yeah, but did he have his boots on?

 

[Swedishchef]

LOL...yeah. BUt maybe not his seat belt (we were stopped in the driveway)

 

[sportbikerider78]

My parents just got a 2015 outback. They love it. Had to wait 9 wks for it! Very high demand right now, but it is worth buying new. The used 2014's were fetching almost the same price. That is just stupid to buy used to save $1000.

 

[Swedishchef]

My parents just got a 2015 outback. They love it. Had to wait 9 wks for it! Very high demand right now, but it is worth buying new. The used 2014's were fetching almost the same price. That is just stupid to buy used to save $1000.

Subaru has the highest residual value in their class. It's great when you own one.. I think it's 46% (+_2%) after 5 years.

Andrew

 

[RustyShackleford]

Subaru has the highest residual value in their class. It's great when you own one.. I think it's 46% (+_2%) after 5 years.

A couple of other interesting Subaru factoids:

1. During the main year of the Great Recession (2008), it was the only car company whose sales increased (http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1871101,00.html).
2. It has, by far, the highest percentage of buyers who pay cash for their car.

 

[Swedishchef]

1. During the main year of the Great Recession (2008), it was the only car company whose sales increased (http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1871101,00.html).
2. It has, by far, the highest percentage of buyers who pay cash for their car.

My replies to your points:
1- I was aware of that...in fact, year over year their sales have increased 20%-30% for the past 6 years. Last year, SUbaru of America outsold Mazda and VW in the US.
2- That certainly is NOT me. lol. I keep buying Subarus..they always knock off 1% interest and some times 2%. So my financing rates are normally 0.5% to 1.5%. Why pay cash?

Andrew

 

[RustyShackleford]

1- I was aware of that...in fact, year over year their sales have increased 20%-30% for the past 6 years.

They're really good cars; I haven't driven anything else since Reagan's first term. I believe no other car offers as good a combination of handling and the ability to handle poor road conditions. They're also really reliable. Despite all the whining about oil leaks and head gaskets, I haven't had either problem in all that time; FWIW, I am meticulous about preventive maintenance.

They do/did have two weak spots. Gas mileage - I guess that's the price you pay for full-time AWD, and supposedly it's gotten better in recent years. Clutch - I used to get 70-80K miles on a clutch; but that too seems to be improving, as my 2006 has over 90K miles with no signs of slippage.

2- That certainly is NOT me. lol. I keep buying Subarus..they always knock off 1% interest and some times 2%. So my financing rates are normally 0.5% to 1.5%. Why pay cash?

Last time I bought a new one, interest rates aren't were they are now (at least in the bond markets, and loan rates tend to correlate).

But that was 1997. The last one I bought, I bought a low-mileage used 2006 in 2008. The reason was because I wanted manual transmission, sunroof, and non-turbo, and that combination was no longer available in a new model.

 

[Swedishchef]

All I have drive in my 18 years as a driver were Subarus. No gasket issues or oil leaks ( now I am jinxed....lol).

Yes the gas mileage is an issue...but until recently the impreza had the 2.5 L engine with 170hp. It weighs 550 lbs more than other cars in its class..how could you get better mileage than a civic?

A friend of mine has a 2013 outback. He gets 7L/100km. With my 2010 Forester I can get 7.6

A

 

[ewdudley]

I believe no other car offers as good a combination of handling and the ability to handle poor road conditions.

That is of course not counting a well-tuned Chevette with a bag of sand over the rear wheels.

In the 'all wheel drive space' as they call it, Subaru certainly has competitive offerings across the whole spectrum of performance, but to claim that 'no other car' can share the category is flat ridiculous.

 

[bobdog2o02]

That is of course not counting a well-tuned Chevette with a bag of sand over the rear wheels.

In the 'all wheel drive space' as they call it, Subaru certainly has competitive offerings across the whole spectrum of performance, but to claim that 'no other car' can share the category is flat ridiculous.

If you add value/cost its completely true, the only awd system i see as almost as good is the quatro from audi but the pricing is far from competitive to the subies.

 

[Swedishchef]

but to claim that 'no other car' can share the category is flat ridiculous.

I can understand your point. But us Subaru cult members will never admit to that

Andrew

 

[bobdog2o02]

I can understand your point. But us Subaru cult members will never admit to that

Andrew

Yup, I got stock in the Subaru Kool-Aid.

 

[Ashful]

If you add value/cost its completely true, the only awd system i see as almost as good is the quatro from audi but the pricing is far from competitive to the subies.

We've had AWD cars from Jaguar, Audi (multiple), Volvo, and Mercedes (multiple) in the last ten years. The Subies give good value in AWD, but let's not pretend there's anyone here who wouldn't trade theirs for an Audi Quattro or Mercedes 4-Matic, if the opportunity presented itself.

 

[CrufflerJJ]

We've had AWD cars from Jaguar, Audi (multiple), Volvo, and Mercedes (multiple) in the last ten years. The Subies give good value in AWD, but let's not pretend there's anyone here who wouldn't trade theirs for an Audi Quattro or Mercedes 4-Matic, if the opportunity presented itself.

No thanks re: trading Subies for Audi/Benz. Repair parts are more reasonably priced for Subaru, plus I can do the basic repair stuff myself (don't need to re-learn any maker-specific idiosyncrasies).

 

[RustyShackleford]

No thanks re: trading Subies for Audi/Benz.

I'd do the trade. Then sell the Kraut-mobile, buy another Sube, and pocket the change.