Ravelli Francesca error code help please

[Ssyko]

Have you cleaned the debimeter in the intake tube? I know its been an issue with some other ravelli owners?

 

[Manly]

Have you cleaned the debimeter in the intake tube? I know its been an issue with some other ravelli owners?

That is my next step. I won't be able to get to it until Friday night. I am hoping that is the issue. I am running out of options to try. At that time I am also going to double check all my wiring terminations. I sure wish I could get a hold of an actual wiring diagram and sequence of logic/operation for this stove. Apparently they are near non existent or just hard to find. I do greatly appreciate all the input I have received from the forum members here.

 

[rich2500]

I have a wiring diagram for my Francesca which I would gladly send you but I don't know how similar it would be for your stove. mine is a 2015

 

[Monica in France]

Ssyko et al,
these stoves are mechanically very simple.
The air comes in with a single tube. In the model under discussion this tube has a MAF in it.
It enters a sealed box around the burn box by the tube with the igniter in it.
The burn box naturally has a hole opposite this tube and has the usual holes on the bottom ( for primary combustion) and sides ( for secondary combustion).
The combustion heat rises into a 'forced air' heat exchanger at the top and escapes at the sides ( where cleaning is a nightmare ) ,
going down into a cavity below the hearth area.
These passages going down the sides have removable covers in them , but no real access to the top edge where my troubles always start.
The exhaust fan sucks from this last box into the flue.
The flue has a depression sensor just "behind" the flue flow to assure that the smoke is being evacuated.( and that wind down the flue is not stopping the flow.
There is another "basic" security : a temperature sensor attached to the pellet hopper.
They added door switches and the like as the years went by.
Their basic firmware is keeping the revs of the exhaust fan correlated with the supply of pellets controlled by the auger motor.
When they realized this was only valid up to a point they added the MAF.

I think the idea of a positive pressure fire chamber is probably against european law , certainly against what passes for common sense here.
The more fail safe the better . Like brakes on trains.
Certainly French law stipulated the depression sensor on the flue of my gas boiler.

 

[Ssyko]

Lol yeah machanicly simple but over engineered on software and controls. My reference to positive pressure was just to try and wrap my head around the vacuum switch disconnects when blower starts. That just doesn’t make sence to me. But i dont know the software either.

 

[Monica in France]

My stove is the generation before yours but it is visually very similar.
I post a picture of my depression sensor. made by Honeywell.
You can see the connections well enough to see if yours are the same.
But please , no comments on all the pellets that need vacuuming up !

In my wiring diagram this is in series with the auger feed.
Implying the depression gives the contact.

I do not believe that Ravelli would have programmed the MAF to override the basic firmware parameters to such an extent that it causes a shutdown situation.
But have you looked at the 'stove status' display just before the alarm sets off.
What are the exhaust revs ? My logic says they dip just before it beeps.

 

[Manly]

Lol yeah machanicly simple but over engineered on software and controls. My reference to positive pressure was just to try and wrap my head around the vacuum switch disconnects when blower starts. That just doesn’t make sence to me. But i dont know the software either.

The poor documentation supplied shows the power to the auger going through a N.C. on the vacuum switch. This same wire feeds back to the control board. This is where I presume the control logic comes into play. The N.C. contact allows the pellet auger to start immediately to fill the burn pot. The exhaust/combustion fan then starts. The vacuum switch contact then opens, and at this time the logic sends power to the auger via the common wire at the control board. If the vacuum switch contact should transfer or fail, I suspect the power coming back through the N.C. contact is somehow detected by the logic and a #13 insufficient drought alarm is generated. This is all conjecture from what I have seen with this stove. I have no documentation or description on the logic control.

 

[Manly]

My stove is the generation before yours but it is visually very similar.
I post a picture of my depression sensor. made by Honeywell.
You can see the connections well enough to see if yours are the same.
But please , no comments on all the pellets that need vacuuming up !

In my wiring diagram this is in series with the auger feed.
Implying the depression gives the contact.

I do not believe that Ravelli would have programmed the MAF to override the basic firmware parameters to such an extent that it causes a shutdown situation.
But have you looked at the 'stove status' display just before the alarm sets off.
What are the exhaust revs ? My logic says they dip just before it beeps.

My switch looks identical although it is not Honeywell. It is an unfamiliar Chinese mfg. The wire connections and tube are in the same position, with the wires being is series with the auger feed. I will watch the display for stove status before the alarm. From what you are saying I am guessing their is a parameter that will allow me to monitor the exhaust motor speed. When I do get the alarm #8 no depression alarm, the auger shuts down but the exhaust fan continues to run. It seems to be looking for a correction to start feeding again. I end up having to shut the stove down manually.

 

[Monica in France]

<<
The N.C. contact allows the pellet auger to start immediately to fill the burn pot.
The exhaust/combustion fan then starts.
The vacuum switch contact then opens, and at this time the logic sends power to the auger via the common wire at the control board.

Are you sure of this ?
My RDS manual states that after the igniter is pre-heated , the exhaust fan comes on and the auger fills the burn pot with pellets.
Mine certainly follows this algorithm.
That way you save a lot of complications. Both in the hardware and the software.

After any alarm situation the stove goes into closedown mode , the ventilator goes at full tilt until the stove is at a temperature where one can be certain there are no combustion fumes. It then stops.
In your case the ventilator going full tilt could remove the alarm situation thus causing the firmware to get its nickers in a twist.?

My menu has a 'Display Status' entry.
It displays the flue temperature , exhaust fan revs , and if the the auger motor is on or off.
The words 'display status' are my translation of the French displayed on my sceren. Ravelli's english translation could well be different !

 

[Manly]

<<
The N.C. contact allows the pellet auger to start immediately to fill the burn pot.
The exhaust/combustion fan then starts.
The vacuum switch contact then opens, and at this time the logic sends power to the auger via the common wire at the control board.

Are you sure of this ?
My RDS manual states that after the igniter is pre-heated , the exhaust fan comes on and the auger fills the burn pot with pellets.
Mine certainly follows this algorithm.
That way you save a lot of complications. Both in the hardware and the software.

After any alarm situation the stove goes into closedown mode , the ventilator goes at full tilt until the stove is at a temperature where one can be certain there are no combustion fumes. It then stops.
In your case the ventilator going full tilt could remove the alarm situation thus causing the firmware to get its nickers in a twist.?

My menu has a 'Display Status' entry.
It displays the flue temperature , exhaust fan revs , and if the the auger motor is on or off.
The words 'display status' are my translation of the French displayed on my sceren. Ravelli's english translation could well be different !

I just downloaded a RDS manual that has a block diagram of the logic sequence. It is not for my specific year Francesca but hopefully is similar. The start/run sequence I previously described was from my observations only. As soon as I get time I will give this stove one final go through; clean the MAF sensor, observe the exhaust fan speed prior to alarm, and if it still continues to alarm, I will retire the stove for the time being. Thank you for your continued input. Jim

 

[Manly]

<<
The N.C. contact allows the pellet auger to start immediately to fill the burn pot.
The exhaust/combustion fan then starts.
The vacuum switch contact then opens, and at this time the logic sends power to the auger via the common wire at the control board.

Are you sure of this ?
My RDS manual states that after the igniter is pre-heated , the exhaust fan comes on and the auger fills the burn pot with pellets.
Mine certainly follows this algorithm.
That way you save a lot of complications. Both in the hardware and the software.

After any alarm situation the stove goes into closedown mode , the ventilator goes at full tilt until the stove is at a temperature where one can be certain there are no combustion fumes. It then stops.
In your case the ventilator going full tilt could remove the alarm situation thus causing the firmware to get its nickers in a twist.?

My menu has a 'Display Status' entry.
It displays the flue temperature , exhaust fan revs , and if the the auger motor is on or off.
The words 'display status' are my translation of the French displayed on my sceren. Ravelli's english translation could well be different !

So I removed and cleaned the MAF sensor in the intake pipe. I monitored the combustion fan as it cycled through. The rpm or whatever unit the fan is measured in stayed consistent. It was around 1680 initially, came down to 1322 during flame light, and stayed around 1327 during work stage when I got the alarm #8 depression about 1 minuet after the heat blower fan came on. This trips at the same time each time I try. Does anyone know if there are any points on the control board that can be jumped to help isolate if the MAF is defective? Possibly put a resistor in its place for test purposes. I can not understand how this unit can get all the way to the work stage with good air flow and flame then just go into alarm. If I am at the point where I have to change out the control board, it just isn't worth it.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

Since you have an airflow / MAF sensor ("Debimeter" in Ravelli speak) in the intake tube, you do have the later RDS Francesca model. My guess is that you need to replace the MAF sensor. I bet that the control board only looks at the MAF airflow signal after it exits the ignition phase, and goes into the "work" phase of operation. Then it sees a lower-than-expected airflow signal, which trips the Low Draft alarm. The airflow is either actually too low, or the MAF sensor is defective (outputing a falsely lower signal than it should, for a given amount of actual airflow).

Read thru the below thread.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/ravelli-francesca-pellet-stove.164499/

The MAF is actually a simple device, a U shaped board, with a heater resistor R1 next to a thermistor RT1. The other side of the U has an identical thermistor RT2. I bet these MAF units go bad because the two matched thermistors drift apart in value (Ohms versus temperature.) Or the 750 Ohm heater resistor opens. Any of these 3 parts could be easily replaced to repair the MAF. The difficulty is finding the correct part number of the thermistors, but a simple experiment with a good MAF could determine the characteristics so that we would know how to repair future owners problems with the MAF sensor.

https://www.google.com/search?q=rav...biw=1745&bih=849&dpr=1.1#imgrc=-PgKSCXWweAXhM:

A typical thermistor costs about 10 cents each...
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/tdk-corporation/NTCG103JF103FT1/445-2550-1-ND/934249

 

[Manly]

My stove is the generation before yours but it is visually very similar.
I post a picture of my depression sensor. made by Honeywell.
You can see the connections well enough to see if yours are the same.
But please , no comments on all the pellets that need vacuuming up !

In my wiring diagram this is in series with the auger feed.
Implying the depression gives the contact.

I do not believe that Ravelli would have programmed the MAF to override the basic firmware parameters to such an extent that it causes a shutdown situation.
But have you looked at the 'stove status' display just before the alarm sets off.
What are the exhaust revs ? My logic says they dip just before it beeps.

Upon taking a closer look at the photo of your depression sensor, It looks identical to the original switch I removed from my stove, although mine has a different brand name label. Most likely made in the same factory with different label. Anyway, going under the assumption they are the same, it would appear that your switch has the flow tube attached to the H high pressure side. If that is correct, then I installed my new switch with the hose on the wrong side. If that is so, then I have been under the wrong impression as to how the "logic" of this safety device works. I thought it looked for a vacuum, or negative pressure and if a blockage occurred the switch would transfer contacts and send voltage back to the control board to go into alarm. By putting the hose on the pressure side, the contact on the switch remains closed, the auger keeps running, I don't get an alarm and the stove runs fine at this time. If this is the correct operation, then I would guess a blockage in the exhaust or flue would cause the fan to create positive pressure, open the contact to drop out the auger and give a depression alarm. This is where I am at now and the stove appears to be running fine. In summary, I believe, or am guessing, my original alarm #13 drought insufficient may have been caused by a dirty MAF sensor, which did have a visible coating of dirt, as well as my flue T being about 1/2 full of soot. Once I decided to change the vacuum switch, which I determined to be defective using presumably incorrect understanding of operation, I installed the hose on the wrong side which has caused me much consternation. Let me know if you agree with my final connections. Hopefully I am running in the proper manner. I would like to thank you and everyone who contributed input to help resolve my issue. If everything continues to run well, I would say cleaning was the ultimate fix. Regards, Jim

 

[Manly]

Since you have an airflow / MAF sensor ("Debimeter" in Ravelli speak) in the intake tube, you do have the later RDS Francesca model. My guess is that you need to replace the MAF sensor. I bet that the control board only looks at the MAF airflow signal after it exits the ignition phase, and goes into the "work" phase of operation. Then it sees a lower-than-expected airflow signal, which trips the Low Draft alarm. The airflow is either actually low, or the MAF sensor is defective (outputing a falsely lower signal than it should, for a given amount of actual airflow).

Read thru the below thread.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/ravelli-francesca-pellet-stove.164499/

The MAF is actually a simple device, a U shaped board, with a heater resistor R1 next to a thermistor RT1. The other side of the U has an identical thermistor RT2. I bet these MAF units go bad because the two matched thermistors drift apart in value (Ohms versus temperature.) Or the 750 Ohm heater resistor opens. Any of these 3 parts could be easily replaced to repair the MAF. The difficulty is finding the correct part number of the thermistors, but a simple experiment with a good MAF could determine the characteristics so that we would know how to repair future owners problems with the MAF sensor.

Please take a look at the post I made prior to your reading your post and see if you agree with my finding and current situation. I would like to verify that I have my vacuum switch now correctly installed. Greatly appreciated, Jim

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/p1000921-jpg.53207/

See pic above, my pressure switch, on my non-RDS Elena model, is installed just like "Monica in France", with the rubber hose on the right side "H" switch nipple, and the electrical connections to the outer two (NC & C) switch terminals (the NO terminal tab nearest the switch body is not connected to a wire). This works because the other end of the hose connects to the output side of the exhaust blower. Most other stoves have a vacuum switch that connects to the intake side of the exhaust blower.

I agree with you, the switch is really to detect positive pressure if the external flue pipe gets blocked, which then opens the switch, cutting off the auger and setting an alarm.

 

[Manly]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/p1000921-jpg.53207/

See pic above, my pressure switch, on my non-RDS Elena model, is installed just like "Monica in France", with the rubber hose on the right side switch nipple, and the electrical connections to the outer two switch terminals (the terminal tab nearest the switch body is not connected to a wire). This works because the other end of the hose connects to the output side of the exhaust blower. Most other stoves have a vacuum switch that connects to the intake side of the exhaust blower.

I agree with you, the switch is really to detect positive pressure if the external flue pipe gets blocked, which then opens the switch, cutting off the auger and setting an alarm.

Thanks.

 

[Monica in France]

"Manly" said <
If that is so, then I have been under the wrong impression as to how the "logic" of this safety device works.
I thought it looked for a vacuum, or negative pressure and if a blockage occurred the switch would transfer contacts
and send voltage back to the control board to go into alarm.
By putting the hose on the pressure side, the contact on the switch remains closed, the auger keeps running,....
>
The manual says
< The VACUUM SWITCH is an electromechanical safety device that garantees the smoke duct is always free. It works by depression. >

"Manly" has actually connected his "electromechanical safety device" to an ohm meter and sucked. Could he confirm his statement please.
If he is right , it sucks as a safety device . But I know from bitter experience how easy it is to get muddled up with these things.
What with a choice of sucking and blowing , two nipples and three contacts. I managed to scrap a working parking brake motor recently because my test lead was duff.

"Pelleting in NJ" : what a beautifully clean stove you have. I wish I had your discipline.
But I notice the tip of the thermocouple just visible and not poked right through the hole as I do ( I forgot to note how it was originally ).
Is your way "better" or is it not important ?
I have absolutely no knowledge or experience on this subject and enquire to have more knowledge and possibly avoid a bad experience.

 

[Ssyko]

Ahhhhh ok i see it now. The switch is working on the pressure side the connection for the hose is on exhaust (pressure)side of the combustion blower instead of the intake (vacuum).

 

[Manly]

Ahhhhh ok i see it now. The switch is working on the pressure side the connection for the hose is on exhaust (pressure)side of the combustion blower instead of the intake (vacuum).

I had been going under the false assumption that the pressure switch was looking for vacuum to operate the contacts properly. The switch tube is under a vacuum state when the stove is operating. Therefore if the tube is connected to the Lo, or vacuum side, the electrical contacts open as soon as the exhaust fan starts and the auger shuts down as soon as the stove goes into the work mode. I have tested the operation of the switch and contacts extensively trying to determine the operational sequence of this stove, since I had no decent descriptive documentation. If I had marked my original switch as to where the hose came off I could have saved a lot of time. The pictures posted by Monica in France and Pelleting in NJ confirm this is the proper connection; air tube on the H nipple and wires on the NC terminals. All that being said, If I were designing a safety circuit, this would not pass muster. It is not intrinsically fail safe. In the machine controls field control devices that fail or become disconnected should create a fault condition. Not here. Enough said, the stove has been running all night. .

 

[Ssyko]

Cool, glad your back in the heat!

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

Monica in France : The picture of my stove was taken when the stove was new...that is why it is so clean. Concerning the thermocouple, it should be inserted into the orange seal so that a small portion of the smooth metal barrel is still visible from the outside. If you push it in any further, until the braided wire is inside the orange seal, that is too far, as the seal will not be airtight around the braid.

Manly : Although the Ecoteck/Ravelli technical manual calls this a "Vacuum" switch, that operates on "depression", that is not actually (as we see) how the stove is designed. I think the translation from Italian may have botched-up the switch description a bit.

Concerning fail-safe design, these stoves are no less safe compared to any other stove which senses vacuum on the intake side of the exhaust fan, which close a contact when vacuum is present. These "vacuum" side stoves can't detect if the external flue pipe is blocked, as this condition will still keep vacuum pressure on the switch, keeping the contacts closed, which will allow continued stove operation. In addition, the Ecoteck/Ravelli stoves monitor the RPM of the exhaust fan, and if the fan is running too slow, or not at all, the stove sets an alarm and shuts down. Compared to a typical "vacuum" switch stove, the Ecoteck/Ravelli stoves actually have more safety features.

 

[Monica in France]

'Pelleting in NJ':
I am in denial.
I ( perhaps like the Ravelli translator ) was completely convinced that the switch worked on vacuum.
It is so obvious that it should.
The 'pressure' outlet on the fan housing on my stove even looks moulded for a venuri effect. ( or did I imagine that ? )
So next time I stop the stove to clean it I will not only ensure that my thermocouple conforms with your specification ,
but I will myself connect an ohmmeter to that switch and suck. That way I will dispell any lingering doubts I have.
Not that my name is Thomas but ....

And your other point is perfectly valid , even if back pressure in the flue does not stop the auger straight away ,
it will ensure the exhaust fan works overtime to resist it which is in some ways a better solution.

 

[Monica in France]

It was cleaning time this morning , so I pulled off the side panel and got down on my knees and investigated that 'vacuum' switch.
I can confirm , as stated by 'Manly' and seconded by 'pelleting in NJ' , that this not a fail-safe vacuum device.
It will disconnect the auger motor if the pressure at the base of the flue builds up.

In the 'status' menu you can turn the auger motor on and off , ( this is useful to prime the screw ) ,
and there is no reason for the exhaust fan to come on , after all the switch is 'normally ' closed.
But it does.
Maybe it started life configured as fail safe until they realized it didn't really matter.

 

[liquidwood]

Hello all...

I am having issues with my Ravelli Francesca stove which looks like the one in this post.

Can anyone tell me what model stove A, B (etc) I have based on the pics I sent (I think the mfg date is 2011 or 2012)

Does anyone have the manual, programming guide and schematics for this stove? Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[Pelleting In NJ]

Liquidwood
Send me your email address through the messaging feature of this forum, and I can email you some technical info on your stove.