Quad Castile Insert - shuts down unexpectedly

[rparker]

Had a shut-down issue with my Quad 1200 recently. After replacing #2 snap disk (under warranty) I did a little investigation. Started with the #2 disk and found a very poor connection. The push-on connector was barely making contact. A quick adjustment with needle nose pliers and everything appears to be operating as it should. I kept the old snap disk just in case I need it in the future.

 

[iamdrumming]

Board replaced ($269.00). I'm back up and running. Its intermittantly shutting down still.. yesterday, it ran for ~ 6 hours on High with no problems. I put it down to Medium and within 10 minutes it started shutting down. No error lights in the control box. I can reset it only when the green light comes on. I now think that the auger stops feeding pellets for whatever reason. I'm suspecting this is a defective snap disk (??). Which one do I bypass? The manual is confusing me with regards to placements of the snap disks, I see one on the right side of the chute leading to the firepot and there's one on the auger tube itself right? Suggestions?

Thanks!
Rob

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Board replaced ($269.00). I'm back up and running. Its intermittantly shutting down still.. yesterday, it ran for ~ 6 hours on High with no problems. I put it down to Medium and within 10 minutes it started shutting down. No error lights in the control box. I can reset it only when the green light comes on. I now think that the auger stops feeding pellets for whatever reason. I'm suspecting this is a defective snap disk (??). Which one do I bypass? The manual is confusing me with regards to placements of the snap disks, I see one on the right side of the chute leading to the firepot and there's one on the auger tube itself right? Suggestions?

Thanks!
Rob

Sounds like your system is producing more heat than the convection system can remove from the heat exchanger, you might want to check your convection blower for crud buildup.

The reason I'm saying this is your shutdown happened when you went from a higher setting to a lower one so the convection system shifted to a lower air flow rate but the stove was fired at high long enough to reach maximum heat exchanger temperature, the lower heat removal cause the high limit to stop the auger as it should. If the fire burns out before the high limit resets (possible) the stove shuts down.

Some stoves have two high limit switches, one is frequently called something other than high limit, like burn back protection.

 

[iamdrumming]

Convection blower is clean.. per earlier posts, we had the entire stove pulled out and disassembled.. I even pulled the convection blower out and individually cleaned all the fins. Its cranking heat and making no noise when its running.

I think this is the disk I want to check:
Snap Disc #2 (Fuel Delivery Interrupt) 250°F
Snap disc #2 is located on the back side of the feed drop
tube. There is 1 orange wire and 1 black wire connected to
it. This snap disc will turn off the feed system, which will turn
off the appliance if an overfi re condition should occur or if the
convection blower should fail to operate. If this occurs the
snap disc with automatically reset itself.

This makes sense since I do nothing initially and then I'm able to hit the system reset button after it cools down a bit.
The dealer sold me a "snap disk, manual". I assume this is a different part than # 2 which is automatic?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Convection blower is clean.. per earlier posts, we had the entire stove pulled out and disassembled.. I even pulled the convection blower out and individually cleaned all the fins. Its cranking heat and making no noise when its running.

I think this is the disk I want to check:
Snap Disc #2 (Fuel Delivery Interrupt) 250°F
Snap disc #2 is located on the back side of the feed drop
tube. There is 1 orange wire and 1 black wire connected to
it. This snap disc will turn off the feed system, which will turn
off the appliance if an overfi re condition should occur or if the
convection blower should fail to operate. If this occurs the
snap disc with automatically reset itself.

This makes sense since I do nothing initially and then I'm able to hit the system reset button after it cools down a bit.
The dealer sold me a "snap disk, manual". I assume this is a different part than # 2 which is automatic?

Thanks,
Rob

Yes a manual snap disc is different than an automatic one, the manual one requires a person to reset it before it will pass current. The automatic one self resets when the temp falls below a certain amount.

 

[iamdrumming]

Thanks.. I'll try bypassing it first then since they sold me the wrong part!
Updates to follow tomorrow....

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If the convection blower is clean and really blows up a storm then you have a case of the stove is producing more heat than what the convection system can handle, lower the feed gate setting.

Do not run the stove unattended or for a long length of time with any high limit bypassed.

 

[DexterDay]

There was just a thread about a CB 1200 shutting down unexpectedly.

Have you watched or paid attention to the auger? The auger has been known to spin the opposite way on Quadrafires. Fixed by installing a simple capacitor.

Worth looking into..

 

[tjnamtiw]

Thanks.. I'll try bypassing it first then since they sold me the wrong part!
Updates to follow tomorrow....

You can still use the manual reset in place of the automatic. IN FACT, it would actually help in the trouble shooting since you can tell if the #2 snap disc was your problem if it trips and you have to manually reset it. If it doesn't need to be reset, then the problem is somewhere else. IMHO, this disk SHOULD be a manual reset so you can tell if it tripped since it really should never trip unless there is a REAL problem.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks.. I'll try bypassing it first then since they sold me the wrong part!
Updates to follow tomorrow....

You can still use the manual reset in place of the automatic. IN FACT, it would actually help in the trouble shooting since you can tell if the #2 snap disc was your problem if it trips and you have to manually reset it. If it doesn't need to be reset, then the problem is somewhere else. IMHO, this disk SHOULD be a manual reset so you can tell if it tripped since it really should never trip unless there is a REAL problem.

I also am in favor of manual reset high limit switches and have never been a fan of automatic reset ones.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

There was just a thread about a CB 1200 shutting down unexpectedly.

Have you watched or paid attention to the auger? The auger has been known to spin the opposite way on Quadrafires. Fixed by installing a simple capacitor.

Worth looking into..

Yes it is worth looking into.

Since this is a known cause of flaky pellet feeding in quads.

It causes the auger to change direction or even stop feeding when the auger is commanded to run.

 

[iamdrumming]

I'll try lowering the feed gate setting.. good idea. When the auger stops, it stops completely.. it is not reversing from what I observe. Good point on the manual vs. automatic snap disk. I sort of agree. I'd rather know that it was tripped and have to rest it myself. Good to know that I can interchange them though.

Thanks

 

[iamdrumming]

I lowered the feed gate setting and the flame is definitely less intense. The dang thing ran on Medium all night (~ 6 hours). I woke up, added more pellets and bumped her up to high and went to work. My wife said if shut down again! Again, she waited until it cooled down (showing the green light) and she wasd able reset it and start it all over again.
Do you agree bypassing Snap Disk # 2 (on the back of the drop tube) is my next move? I really hope I don't have to pull the stove out again (Ugh!!)!

Thanks,
Rob

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I lowered the feed gate setting and the flame is definitely less intense. The dang thing ran on Medium all night (~ 6 hours). I woke up, added more pellets and bumped her up to high and went to work. My wife said if shut down again! Again, she waited until it cooled down (showing the green light) and she wasd able reset it and start it all over again.
Do you agree bypassing Snap Disk # 2 (on the back of the drop tube) is my next move? I really hope I don't have to pull the stove out again (Ugh!!)!

Thanks,
Rob

No, your next move is to get a new snap disc and install it or get that capacitor replaced. Unless you are watching that stove do not jump that switch.

I still don't know what limit switch is in the stove nor do I know how your wife reset the stove.

Did you put the manual reset switch in the stove and did your wife have to push its reset button? If she did not then the stove is not going over temperature. This is not a case of reseting the stove by pushing its reset button. This is why a lot of us hate automatic reset limit controls.

That capacitor can send the motor in the correct rotation 99999 time out of 10000 and then stop the auger and it no move for some time.

 

[iamdrumming]

The limit switch is Snap Disk # 2. Nothing separate that I know of.
The reset she pushed was the system reset that is used when the stove shuts down automatically when it runs out of pellets. (It was NOT any of the snap disk resets). Once the stove cools enough, the green light comes on and allows us to rest and start er up again.
I didn't do anything with the snap disks yet because I first wanted to to try adjusting the feed rate which helped but did not solve the problem.
I don't plan on running the stove unattended with anything bypassed. Because of the location of the Snap Disk, I'd rather not replace it unless I have to. It seems easier to first bypass it. Plus, I still need to get the correct automatic reset snap disk (I realize I can use the manual one.. I just want to do things right.. I may use it temporarily though).

Thanks for everyone's continues f3eedback and assistance.. I REALLY want to fix this thing!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The limit switch is Snap Disk # 2. Nothing separate that I know of.
The reset she pushed was the system reset that is used when the stove shuts down automatically when it runs out of pellets. (It was NOT any of the snap disk resets). Once the stove cools enough, the green light comes on and allows us to rest and start er up again.
I didn't do anything with the snap disks yet because I first wanted to to try adjusting the feed rate which helped but did not solve the problem.
I don't plan on running the stove unattended with anything bypassed. Because of the location of the Snap Disk, I'd rather not replace it unless I have to. It seems easier to first bypass it. Plus, I still need to get the correct automatic reset snap disk (I realize I can use the manual one.. I just want to do things right.. I may use it temporarily though).

Thanks for everyone's continues f3eedback and assistance.. I REALLY want to fix this thing!

If you want to do this right replace the current #2 disc with the manual reset one, and restart the stove.

This way we will determine if the stove is actually over heating or if it stops and the #2 doesn't have to be reset it isn't the number two disc at all.

Then we look elsewhere.

This is the safest way of "bypassing" the #2 switch.

ETA: Going down for a geezer nap, had a big platter of sauerkraut, potatoes, and sausage for lunch getting sleepy.

 

[iamdrumming]

OK, you sold me.. I'll do it!

 

[tjnamtiw]

I think Smokey is EXACTLY RIGHT in putting a manual snap disk in place of your present #2. When you are burning on HIGH, how high is the flame on average?

Smokey, after your lunch, I'm glad I'm not going to be downwind of you for a while. :sick:

 

[iamdrumming]

I held off again.. I got home from work and the stove was shutting down.. my wife shut it off because it was too hot in the house after running on high all day.. LOL!
So, we may be alright after adjusting the feed rate.. (I actually think we had a few problems going on that were all contributing (dirty convection blower, too high of a feed rate and possibly the thermal coupler not being pushed in all the way)).
Honestly, I would have just gone with a regular wood stove had I known these things were so finicky! My last house had a Vermont Castings that I could load up in the morning and it would run all day and keep those house a toasty 80 degrees.
I do like the pellet stove though.. when its running well!

To answer your question tj*, the flame is now about three inches above the firepot on high. Its very active and looks good.

Hopefully, we've licked this shut down problem.. if not, I'll dick with that snap disk.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

tj, the sausage platter was good and I never have any problems in that regard from eating them. Oh and I had a nice stout to go with it. Unfortunately they didn't have the porter I really like available, some lame excuse about their brew facilities being down most of the month of December for flooring work.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Rob,

Keep us in the loop on this because as you might have guessed by now I don't like high limit shutdowns, usually there are admonishments in the manuals about the need to locate the cause of these.

Good luck.

 

[tjnamtiw]

I held off again.. I got home from work and the stove was shutting down.. my wife shut it off because it was too hot in the house after running on high all day.. LOL!
So, we may be alright after adjusting the feed rate.. (I actually think we had a few problems going on that were all contributing (dirty convection blower, too high of a feed rate and possibly the thermal coupler not being pushed in all the way)).
Honestly, I would have just gone with a regular wood stove had I known these things were so finicky! My last house had a Vermont Castings that I could load up in the morning and it would run all day and keep those house a toasty 80 degrees.
I do like the pellet stove though.. when its running well!

To answer your question tj*, the flame is now about three inches above the firepot on high. Its very active and looks good.

Hopefully, we've licked this shut down problem.. if not, I'll dick with that snap disk.

Thanks,
Rob

That's good on the flame height. I hope, too, that it was the problem. Your flame should NEVER be constantly hitting the angled baffle plate. Maybe once in a while if you get a big drop of pellets but not constantly. Each time you change pellet brands or even get a new load of the same pellets, you must readjust the slide to get the right flame height. These Quads don't have many available adjustments, but that's one that must be done. Different length pellets make a huge difference. One brand that I burned needed the feed gate wide open and now I have the gate closed as far as it will go for my present pellets.

 

[tjnamtiw]

tj, the sausage platter was good and I never have any problems in that regard from eating them. Oh and I had a nice stout to go with it. Unfortunately they didn't have the porter I really like available, some lame excuse about their brew facilities being down most of the month of December for flooring work.

Stout or Porter is what I would be ordering. They have some interesting Porters, for sure. You needed a few hard boiled eggs to go with the sausage for the 'proper effect'. :cheese:

 

[joe_pinehill]

This is our 4th season. I doubt its under warranty.
I agree and think I just need to replace the whole board. Ugh!

If your still trouble shooting, watch the auger motor during the time it is burning. Does it ever turn counter clockwise? Y

 

[iamdrumming]

I fianally got around to figuring this out.. I by-passed Snap Disk #2 and its cranking away.
I will let it run again today and then unfortunately, I have to pull the stove out to replace that snap disk.
Is it common for these to be defective?
Is there any way to get to it withour puling the stove out and breaking the pipe seals (??)

Thanks,
Rob