Progress operation??????
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700 on their website. There are several factors that improved the heating with the PH as compared to the previous insert. Changes were IIRC, block-off plate added, went from insertto freestanding and increased firebox capacity by .5 cu ft.. All in all a good move for the size of the house and climate. But the PH can only take partial credit for the change. That said, 700# of stove is impressive by any standard. It's like a giant heat flywheel.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
True, but the point remains the same. 700 lb of soapstone won't have any heat capacity or latency advantage over 500 lb of steel, when placed within the envelope of a 1 million pound house.
quotejso
Feeling the Heat
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yes, very, very, very small. Just looking at the 1770's wing of my house, it would be a 200 lb difference on roughly 1 million pounds weight. So, ignoring the small factor of heat capacity in the last 500 - 700, it's 0.02% difference. Results maybe more significant in newer construction, but still probably always below 1%.
quotejso
Feeling the Heat
What do you mean by 200 lb difference. I though we were talking about the fact that soapstone retains heat. I have lime stone walls about 3 feet wide and once they get cold well the house is cold.
I dunno...I want to burn cleanly, so in the shoulder seasons I just open the windows and turn on the WHF!
Just crazy me
Sacramento has shoulder season temps all winter.I dunno...I want to burn cleanly, so in the shoulder seasons I just open the windows and turn on the WHF!
All i am sauing is that it pribably takes my PH about 10 hours or so to go from 250 to room temp. And through the majority of that time if you walk or sit anywhere near the stove tou can still certainly feel the heat radiating off of it.
Your calculations are way off. Your not trying to heat 1 million pounds of house. Not even remotely close to that number. Your only heating the living envelope, drywall to the insulation and wall studs.
It makes a difference, its a big advantage over steel, small advantage over cast iron.
Oh and i didnt have an inser bedore this it was the h300 freestanding 1.8cft.
Your calculations are way off. Your not trying to heat 1 million pounds of house. Not even remotely close to that number. Your only heating the living envelope, drywall to the insulation and wall studs.
It makes a difference, its a big advantage over steel, small advantage over cast iron.
Oh and i didnt have an inser bedore this it was the h300 freestanding 1.8cft.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
You're missing point. I'm talking about energy storage, and whether an extra 200 lb of stove makes any difference in how long your living space stays warm, after the short burn time of that PH lets you down. In that equation, you must consider the temperature, mass, and heat capacity of every heated object in your living space. In that grand sum, 200 lb is not substantial, even when taking into account the relatively high heat capacity of soapstone. That is all.
Example, my stoves are each located in a fireplace, roughly 8' wide X 6' deep X 2 stories tall, and 18" solid stone on all sides. When the stoves go out, those fireplaces stay warm for days. Even with all that mass sitting at an elevated temperature, the house still goes cold, because it is just a small fraction of the total heated surface exposed to the heated envelope, and no where near the surface temp of an actively burning stove.
Physics is simple, BTU out = BTU in X efficiency. Soapstone is a small capacitor, short time constant in that function. It's not buying you any extended heating that came from anywhere beyond the time lag you experienced at start-up.
Example, my stoves are each located in a fireplace, roughly 8' wide X 6' deep X 2 stories tall, and 18" solid stone on all sides. When the stoves go out, those fireplaces stay warm for days. Even with all that mass sitting at an elevated temperature, the house still goes cold, because it is just a small fraction of the total heated surface exposed to the heated envelope, and no where near the surface temp of an actively burning stove.
Physics is simple, BTU out = BTU in X efficiency. Soapstone is a small capacitor, short time constant in that function. It's not buying you any extended heating that came from anywhere beyond the time lag you experienced at start-up.
I have a similar experience. There is a "warm glow" radiating from the stove long after the fire is out and it's in the coaling stage. My old cast iron VC Resolute never had this warm glow. It really makes a difference heating the house, you actually have to plan for it and not overload the stove in these warmer temps.
My Fireview had a similar firebox size as the VC Resolute but the Fireview glowed with useful warmth after the coals were dead and much longer than the VC ever did.
Case in point: I loaded my Progress with 1/3 load of wood last night at 9 pm. 13 hrs later I can barely touch the stove top but the coals are throwing minimal heat - I can hold my hand 1" above them. Yet there is a warm glow still around the stove heating the area. A well insulated house would be taking advantage of this glow.
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quotejso
Feeling the Heat
Yes, no doubt in a large house the stove staying warm will make no difference, but in some newer houses sealed tightly it may be very effective. Plus the soapstone looks really nice.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
If by "eveness" you mean temperature from one room to the next, then that has nothing to do with mass, and everything to do with convective heat transfer coefficient. If you mean consistency in temperature versus time, then mass could play a very small part, but likely it's just a more consistent burn rate from your newer/better stove.
Not from one room to another, heat convects with the open floorplan pretty well regardless of the stove. Eveness refers to the mass of the stove smoothing out the temperature swing cycle. With the F400 we would have a greater temperature swing depending on where in the burn cycle the fire was. With the larger T6 we were told by the local dealer that it would heat us out of house and home. He wouldn't sell us the stove and lost out on the sale. The T6 went in and in spite of it being larger we have much less temp swing through the burn cycle. The stove doesn't radiate as much heat when warming up and it releases the heat over a longer period after the fire has dies down. We noticed this almost immediately. This effect is also noted by soapstone stove owners.
JA600L
Minister of Fire
There is no doubt that my Ideal Steel and it's soapstone parts hold the heat longer then my Quadra-Fire and it's pumice bricks. The Ideal Steel has a lot of soapstone if you get the option. Call me crazy but it works very well for me. Especially mild days with cold nights. I fill it at night and don't reload. The house is plenty warm when I get home from work. My house is very well insulated with new windows.
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Chestnut...I was lucky to live near the American Chestnut Foundation. They had gotten down to their final hybrid and just bulldozed their older stock that they didn't want bread anymore (they were crossing Chinese chestnut and American chestnut) I went over for a few afternoons about 5 years ago and cut up a bunch. Just about as much free would as you could want.
quotejso
Feeling the Heat
seems to burn well, but i am no authority on the matter. i've really only had my wood stove in operation about 3 weeks with nothing to compare it to.
quotejso
Feeling the Heat
Were u trying to make a joke burning a hybrid in a hybrid
Berner
Feeling the Heat
When people say black box what exactly do you mean? I find when I choke the air all the way down I can accomplish a lazy fire but stove top temps stay below 450 and I end up with large black chunks of coal. I don't have much experience with cleaning my liner but when I tried this operation style I had lots of creosote. Last year I made an effort to burn with the air slightly more open. Hotter stove temps, nice gray powdery ash at completion and hardly any creosote. I would love to learn how to increase my burn time but the pros outweigh the cons for me right now.
Black box means no flames in the firebox, so the stove is operating in pure cat mode. I don't do that because mine has a habit of backpuffing.
I have also found I get better cat lightoffs and a much cleaner flue by burning with the air open a bit.
I have also found I get better cat lightoffs and a much cleaner flue by burning with the air open a bit.
Berner
Feeling the Heat
Even when operating in CAT mode only people should have some flames correct? Every 15 or 30 seconds you get a burst. A complete black box seems wrong to me.
If i am going for pure max burn time/low steady heat then i shut air all the way after the load has charred up a bit. It is indeed a black box for up to 18hrs. Sometimes i will occasionally ger a burst of secondaries. Like maybe 1-3 times an hour after the first 2-3 hours.
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