Im paying about $450 a year for 3000 SF. There are small homes at $150 a year. Probably unheard of in most places. Old homes around here tend not to go up that high,over the years, but a new home this size would start off at about $1500 a year.
Power down!
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Holy $(*&%(&*$%.. My takes are almost $19 per thousand. My annual bill is over 6k and my house is small enough to fit in Joful's living room.
Warm_in_NH
Minister of Fire
w c had it right, butt not in retax market" better in Philadelphia" what a great deal. small town mass has usually no city sewer or trash, some even live on wells. all we have are good police and fire, h2o, and then we get to go to the transfer station once a week. almost forgot darn good schools.
trade for the no sales or income tax and you take the 5%+ inc. and 6%+salestx and you get the16.00+retax rate
Northern Mont.Co. Our power just came on an hour ago. Wife is still running on generator, probably until I can get home and switch her back on grid tonight.
10/3+G is plenty for 6000 VA. Even the super-conservative residential ratings put 10/3 NMB at 30A (6900VA), and the cord is only 25 feet. I'll have to check the insulation rating on this cord, but rated as portable cordage, it's going to be way beyond the capacity of my generator. Resistance is .025 ohms for that length, putting V-drop at 0.75 volt (0.7%), so definitely no problem.
I'm paying $6k/year for an assessment based on 5500 sq.ft. heated space, plus 900 sq.ft. of detached garage, on 4 acres. My neighbors in similar size (but newer and severely inferior) houses are paying $8k - $10k. The guy directly across the street from me is paying $24k/ year... but he's got a house that makes mine look quaint.
All my tax bills for 19 mostly single family homes and 1 commercial building 12000 Sq ft with 7 apartments and 3 storefronts + one acre in the country with a cabin on it, come to just under $6.5K yearly for everything. We get 2 bills a year, 1st city and county about 4k 2nd School Tax about 2.5K. Commercial Bldg is the highest about $770 a year. No wonder so many people are moving here from Philly, and other large cities. Unfortunately we are not getting the best of them.
Central PA, and perhaps western PA even more so, are simply beautiful. Fantastic summer weather, and great people. It's as close to paradise as I can imagine, being so far from the shore. If the employment situation (esp. tech) wasn't so bad out there, I'd definitely consider a life in central or western PA.
Three days without power here in the western suburbs, no sign of it coming back, 70% of the township is still dark. No heating problems at all, the Lopi did admirably even without the fan, although it only went into the teens at night. I did finally get around to building a housing for my lantern battery powered stove fan, I will post pics when I get my own power back. It was icepocalypse here on Wednesday, I've never seen anything like it. Fortunately we only lost a couple of already sickly trees, most around were not so lucky, lots of firewood available for 2016 around here.
3 days is my survival design specification, time to move to a friends house now.
TE
3 days is my survival design specification, time to move to a friends house now.
TE
Your retirement dollars will go farther out here. Could probably get a small farm for what you could sell you rhouse for in Philly. With less taxes to boot.
Woke up to the sound of a nearby generator Wednesday morning, couldn't figure out what it was until I saw no lights on my alarm clock. Guess that neighbor had his generator ready and waiting for the first opportunity. I had already lasted 3 or 4 years with my unused generator which had almost acted like an insurance policy preventing new power outages for several years, until Wednesday -- wondered if I was ever going to use that thing that was just gathering dust. In fact I didn't even hook it up the first day because I was thinking there was chance they'd have the power back on quickly and if I didn't run it, I wouldn't be having to maintain a gen that had been filled with gas and oil (never-used it can sit around for years, once it's used it has to be regularly maintained).
Before I even bought it we were having more-than-1-day outages just about every year -- the type that would ruin food in freezers and refrigs. I knew that after 24 hours I would need to get it hooked up. So I spent the first day planning how to assemble a back feed hook up and picking up what was left of extension cords in the stores if I went that route.
This generator's small, 3500 watts (120V), but just about everything here is gas (LP). The only 240V is the dryer and if I were replacing that it would be gas too. So the small size isn't a problem. Couldn't get the right twist plug. 3 prong 30A 120V, just won't fit in easily for some reason (I don't want to force it and break it, in fact I'm wondering if maybe Champion (Gen brand) uses a proprietary plug, they do offer a made up cord on their site. But the generator panel does have another 30A outlet for an RV plug (same rating as the twist lock outlet) , which I finally was able to locate this morning -- RV plug at another Lowes.
Thursday I just used extension cords with the gen -- had my car in the shop for most of the day so I was stuck at home unable to get things I needed for the backfeed hookup. Without a ground rod none of the electronic equipment -- computer, microwave would work with extension cords and after seeing that, was afraid of messing up the flatscreen too. I got the heavy gauge cord last night. Unfortunately the cord is too fat to fit in the RV plug (looks like I'll have to return the cord).
So today I made a test and backfed half the house with a 20A 120V deadman cord. Worked fine, tv, computer, microwave all worked. Really nice to be able to just flip wall switches and have room lighting come on. And then the phone rang around 4 PM -- PECO letting me know the power was back on. Had always thought it strange they would call to tell you when the power came back on. In the past I could plainly see that it came back on. But now I realize, if you're using a generator feeding the house, good chance you would not know or even hear all the other generators go silent, with your own running.
Now that the adventure is over, I just have to figure out the best way to get all of that gas out of the generator and back into the gas can to pour in my car.
Though I do want to get the hook up for 30A working now, so that next time I need it, can have it hooked right up without a problem (will be using an interlock eventually when I get it all hooked up).
Before I even bought it we were having more-than-1-day outages just about every year -- the type that would ruin food in freezers and refrigs. I knew that after 24 hours I would need to get it hooked up. So I spent the first day planning how to assemble a back feed hook up and picking up what was left of extension cords in the stores if I went that route.
This generator's small, 3500 watts (120V), but just about everything here is gas (LP). The only 240V is the dryer and if I were replacing that it would be gas too. So the small size isn't a problem. Couldn't get the right twist plug. 3 prong 30A 120V, just won't fit in easily for some reason (I don't want to force it and break it, in fact I'm wondering if maybe Champion (Gen brand) uses a proprietary plug, they do offer a made up cord on their site. But the generator panel does have another 30A outlet for an RV plug (same rating as the twist lock outlet) , which I finally was able to locate this morning -- RV plug at another Lowes.
Thursday I just used extension cords with the gen -- had my car in the shop for most of the day so I was stuck at home unable to get things I needed for the backfeed hookup. Without a ground rod none of the electronic equipment -- computer, microwave would work with extension cords and after seeing that, was afraid of messing up the flatscreen too. I got the heavy gauge cord last night. Unfortunately the cord is too fat to fit in the RV plug (looks like I'll have to return the cord).
So today I made a test and backfed half the house with a 20A 120V deadman cord. Worked fine, tv, computer, microwave all worked. Really nice to be able to just flip wall switches and have room lighting come on. And then the phone rang around 4 PM -- PECO letting me know the power was back on. Had always thought it strange they would call to tell you when the power came back on. In the past I could plainly see that it came back on. But now I realize, if you're using a generator feeding the house, good chance you would not know or even hear all the other generators go silent, with your own running.
Now that the adventure is over, I just have to figure out the best way to get all of that gas out of the generator and back into the gas can to pour in my car.
Though I do want to get the hook up for 30A working now, so that next time I need it, can have it hooked right up without a problem (will be using an interlock eventually when I get it all hooked up).
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Well, to close out my story, our power came back on today around lunchtime. My wife was able to get the generator shut down, unplugged, main back on, and switch back on all the breakers I had opened.... all before I got home from work.
After a day of watching my lights surge and dim (a few times must have been BIG surges), I decided the generator we had bought in desperation on Thursday had to go back, in exchange for a better model. I brought home some equipment from work to record the surging behavior, as Home Depot had this genny listed as having Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR), but then found the manufacturer's site stated it did not. I returned it based on that discrepancy, and ordered a more expensive Honda powered model with AVR, which should be here next week.
We lost all of the food in our garage freezer, which was without power almost 40 hours, but aside from that no financial damage was done. I have maybe 40 downed trees to clean up, which will be a challenge, as busy as I am at the moment. I'll probably get the first 3 (fell on stuff I need to get at) this weekend, and the rest will just have to wait for better days.
After a day of watching my lights surge and dim (a few times must have been BIG surges), I decided the generator we had bought in desperation on Thursday had to go back, in exchange for a better model. I brought home some equipment from work to record the surging behavior, as Home Depot had this genny listed as having Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR), but then found the manufacturer's site stated it did not. I returned it based on that discrepancy, and ordered a more expensive Honda powered model with AVR, which should be here next week.
We lost all of the food in our garage freezer, which was without power almost 40 hours, but aside from that no financial damage was done. I have maybe 40 downed trees to clean up, which will be a challenge, as busy as I am at the moment. I'll probably get the first 3 (fell on stuff I need to get at) this weekend, and the rest will just have to wait for better days.
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Yeah... just had bigger fish to fry, at the moment. I had at least three consecutive nights with less than 4 hours sleep, between two sick kids, a wife who was at her wits end (and now sick herself), two big projects coming to completion at work, and trying to keep the house from freezing. When I could find a few free minutes between those priorities, I'd try to sit down and close my eyes for a few minutes. I had a headache for three days, which wasn't helping my mood (or straight thinking) any, either.
I'd be drinking right now, if I weren't too damn tired.
I'd be drinking right now, if I weren't too damn tired.
I hear you. We went through that crazy parade the first time we had a major outage after moving into this house. It was exhausting keeping fires going and dealing with early winter darkness and roads blocked by fallen trees. Now the kids are grown and we are much better prepared and can handle it more in stride.
There were some wicked surges here as the power went out. I think I saw and heard sparks in some of my wall outlets, and every power-strip in the house had the breaker tripped, along with about 1/3 of my circuit breakers.
Good news: I have whole house surge suppressors in the breaker box, one on each leg. After the power came back, the LED indicates that one is dead (gave its life)...there is also a scorch mark inside the box door right over that one
. Seems that everything else in the house is aok.
Bad news: neighbors report that several circuits in their house are non-functional, and some electronics.
Good news: I have whole house surge suppressors in the breaker box, one on each leg. After the power came back, the LED indicates that one is dead (gave its life)...there is also a scorch mark inside the box door right over that one
. Seems that everything else in the house is aok.Bad news: neighbors report that several circuits in their house are non-functional, and some electronics.
Yikes. I might do well to install a pair of suppressors. These fit into an open breaker slot?
I'd hate to see how the 100 year old cloth over rubber wiring we have in parts of the house deals with that scenario.
I'd hate to see how the 100 year old cloth over rubber wiring we have in parts of the house deals with that scenario.
Yup. I'm still shopping, but a lot fill two slots and protect both legs...
e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-QO2175SB-SurgeBreaker/dp/B000CG80KY#productDetails
Edit: ended up reordering the one I had before: http://www.amazon.com/Cutler-Hammer-BRSURGE-Surge-Arrestor/dp/B003S63AWS
e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Square-Schneider-Electric-QO2175SB-SurgeBreaker/dp/B000CG80KY#productDetails
Edit: ended up reordering the one I had before: http://www.amazon.com/Cutler-Hammer-BRSURGE-Surge-Arrestor/dp/B003S63AWS
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Re whole house surge suppressors: Had one fry in our last big outage as the power went out, and it blew a soot mark on the wall where it was mounted under the panel, the surge was so bad. My electrician and I opened it up inside after we pulled it from the panel, and the insides were melted. We lost a couple of wall wart power supplies but otherwise it did a fantastic job, saving us thousands in equipment. I have an Intermatic mounted on each of our two panels now, and yes, it takes up two slots in your panel, closest to the main.
Re power outage, we're still off at our place in Chester county, and PECO has gone from saying Friday night to Sunday night to "sometime next week". Bought a new oil filter and two spares for the gennie, and 5w-30 synthetic (that baby deserves a treat!). Running on my battery bank still this morning, and used it to power the coffee maker and ash vac this morning for the weekly cleaning of my stove, just to test it. No sweat, and it only used about 900 watts, so I'm going to extend the circuit to the other pellet stove and think about how to continue improving this design. I told my wife last night that I was ready to buy land out west and go off grid when we retire. She was all for it!
Re power outage, we're still off at our place in Chester county, and PECO has gone from saying Friday night to Sunday night to "sometime next week". Bought a new oil filter and two spares for the gennie, and 5w-30 synthetic (that baby deserves a treat!). Running on my battery bank still this morning, and used it to power the coffee maker and ash vac this morning for the weekly cleaning of my stove, just to test it. No sweat, and it only used about 900 watts, so I'm going to extend the circuit to the other pellet stove and think about how to continue improving this design. I told my wife last night that I was ready to buy land out west and go off grid when we retire. She was all for it!
Hope you get your power back soon.
5w-30 vs. 10w-30 looks like that just extends the lower range without effecting the upper, if I'm understanding right. Makes sense to use that instead of the 10w30 in mine. Might as well use synthetic too, I guess.
I've used my emergency car starter battery with an inverter to power some small things like a fan, chargers, radio, etc. in the past. Setting up a whole bank sounds like a good idea, and wiring it into the house somehow, even better. Wondering if that's something you can do yourself with individual parts, or if you need an electrician or package to buy and install.
5w-30 vs. 10w-30 looks like that just extends the lower range without effecting the upper, if I'm understanding right. Makes sense to use that instead of the 10w30 in mine. Might as well use synthetic too, I guess.
I've used my emergency car starter battery with an inverter to power some small things like a fan, chargers, radio, etc. in the past. Setting up a whole bank sounds like a good idea, and wiring it into the house somehow, even better. Wondering if that's something you can do yourself with individual parts, or if you need an electrician or package to buy and install.
Madcodger: I will be finishing up the panel early spring and have been wanting to put one of those whole house power surge things in. I do my own electrical, what does one of those things cost? Where does it connect at first? I can get the power company to disconnect my power at the line for a reasonable price if necessary.
Oil consumption will be increased a bit at warmer temperatures, if running 5W-30 in an application calling for 10W-30. No real harm done, other than maybe slightly faster carbon build-up in the combustion chamber. I believe that's why you will often see mfg'rs calling out 10W-30 dyno or 5W-30 synth, as synth does not cause the same level of carbon build-up.
In general, manufacturer's will tell you that when using the equipment over a range of temperatures exceeding the recommendation for any one type of oil, to base your selection on the lower temperature limit. The equipment will be protected, other than the minor issue of consumption mentioned above. Using the equipment at temperatures lower than that recommended for the oil you're running is much worse, as the oil will not distribute properly, when cold.
I wouldn't advise using a car battery. Car battery plates are thin, designed to produce large amperage for short bursts. For powering things over time, you need a deep cycle battery (thick plates), with less ability to produce lots of power in a burst, but much less likely to sulfate, which is what kills batteries.
To wire into house, you need an inverter (converts DC to AC current) and a way to recharge the batteries. Unless you are very familiar with electricity, do not attempt on your own. I am unaware of packages and you will need a good knowledge of current calculations, wire sizing, etc. I designed mine with my electrician, but even then it required research.
Between $100-$200 for the part, depending on mfr and where purchased. I used Intermatic. Best place to connect is first slots below main breaker (assuming top location for main), taking up two slots (uses 240V breaker) as it needs to protect both sides of panel. My standard advice is that unless you are very familiar, skilled, comfortable, do not mess around inside your panel. It's a bit more than just fixing a receptacle, and can easily kill you. It's a one-two hour job for an electrician, assuming your existing breakers can be easily moved down.
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