Please Help: To Pellet or Not To Pellet?

[FunkDaddyG]

Hello all n00b here. poor folks on impossibly tight budget. Location Blueridge Mountains SwVa.

What should I do within my abilities? Looking at a vogelzang vg5790 from tractor Supply. My son is coming home from school and will help me with the installation if we do it. I am mechanically inclined and great with youtube and can even wade through a decent "how to" forum post.

Now the information, I apologize for the length but I tried to think of everything relevant.

We have an old house built in 1925 by people who didn't follow proper design and construction methods. The Stick built house is on old telephone pole style pylons and field stone and skirted with tin with an opening under the front stairs. the floor joists run long ways on the house and have been shored up in dozens (plural) of places. there is zero insulation 2x4 framing with wood siding on the outside and wood tongue and groove walls on the inside. tin roof that I'm continually hunting down leaks. single pane windows. 2 chimneys. The original structure was approx 1200 square feet the attic was opened and stairs put in to add almost 500 square feet more. the stairs are center of the home longwise.

We currently have 3 inefficient old non-catalytic wood stoves (Fisher, a barrel stove and an unstamped stove that has to be toyed with constantly).

Insulation estimates exceed 15k. windows estimates exceed 8k, roofing estimates exceed 10k. and as I mentioned, we are poor and on an extremely tight budget I'm tackling 1 project at a time.

I'm disabled but capable of doing my own repairs. with help from my children I generally do all projects myself.

The benefits if it works, are keeping the afterthought water pipes running along the ceiling of the dining room from freezing all night without having to add wood every 3 hours (we can possibly get a full night's sleep during winter). also I wouldn't have to haul as many slabs from the lumber mill and cut them all summer long and haul more in the winter if we miscalculate.

Each winter we go through as little as 8 loads of slabs to as many as 17 depending on how cold it gets. I have a homemade headache rack and sides on an f350 powerstroke so each load is about 4x5x10 or so of mixed wood, with a fair bit of pine, poplar etc as well as some oak, hickory birch etc.

The local Harman dealer says that most old farm houses using pellets use between two to 3 tons of pellets in 5 months of heating. and his brand currently runs 217 per ton.

His stove is over 4000 plus accessories and we don't have that much money saved up given all the repairs we've been doing one at a time. so we're considering the vogelzang vg5790 at 1k plus about 200 in accessories, but the reviews are so polarized. A lot of good reviews but the bad are really bad.

Please inundate me with your wisdom.

we would likely put any pellet stove at at one end of the house blowing longwise towards the stairs to cover the pipes and the upstairs bedrooms. the downstairs is roughly 27'x29' With a 10.5'x7.3' addition.

the down stairs has been opened up (longwise) with the center wall mostly removed (ceiling shored up properly) save for the chimneys and bathroom, and the ceiling is 8.5' high. the upper level is about 6.5' at the peak with the ceiling sloping downward and is essentially two rooms one completely open from the stairs and 1 with a door but is around or less than 500 square feet. there are 4 dormers upstairs with single pane windows

Thank you for your patience and wisdom.

 

[jackman]

Welcome to the forum. I can relate to your concerns. It may come down to costs but I certainly prefer a pellet stove. For me it's a lot less work and trouble than a wood stove. I also hate using a chain saw (aka death tool) so if you're like some of my neighbors who get free firewood for their effort that may be a factor. The biggest job is getting the bags loaded somewhere near the stove so I'm always moving bags around. At 40 pounds/bag I call it exercise. I burn 3 tons/year. The pellet stove does have a maintenance chore but I find it less work than a wood stove.

Good luck and keep us posted on your endeavors.

 

[FunkDaddyG]

Welcome to the forum. I can relate to your concerns. It may come down to costs but I certainly prefer a pellet stove. For me it's a lot less work and trouble than a wood stove. I also hate using a chain saw (aka death tool) so if you're like some of my neighbors who get free firewood for their effort that may be a factor. The biggest job is getting the bags loaded somewhere near the stove so I'm always moving bags around. At 40 pounds/bag I call it exercise. I burn 3 tons/year. The pellet stove does have a maintenance chore but I find it less work than a wood stove.

Good luck and keep us posted on your endeavors.

is your home old and drafty? Do you have any insight on the vogelzang vg5790
how large of an area do you heat? is it your primary source of heat?

 

[sprawlnstall]

You need to consider if the pellet stove will produce enough heat to keep you warm, I ran a pellet stove for several years and it never put out enough heat. pellets may be less work than cutting wood but pellet stoves have a lot of moving parts and will eventually need maintenance. Control boards, vacuum seals, auger jams in the middle of night. I would imagine the fisher stove will put out more heat than your current pellet stove. I ran a Pelpro pellet stove 24/7 and would go through a pallet a month easy. Wood may be more overall work but once you have your wood put up for a year the work is done.

 

[FunkDaddyG]

You need to consider if the pellet stove will produce enough heat to keep you warm, I ran a pellet stove for several years and it never put out enough heat. pellets may be less work than cutting wood but pellet stoves have a lot of moving parts and will eventually need maintenance. Control boards, vacuum seals, auger jams in the middle of night. I would imagine the fisher stove will put out more heat than your current pellet stove. I ran a Pelpro pellet stove 24/7 and would go through a pallet a month easy. Wood may be more overall work but once you have your wood put up for a year the work is done.

the work is done if we manage to guess the right amount of wood and if the saw mill has enough slabs to get it done before winter. They grind mulch also, so slabs are available only if I manage to get there before they decide to grind more mulch.

we need to do something because I'm not getting any younger. but propane and fuel oil is way too expensive in this area. even the well insulated homes in this area that heat with propane or fuel oil are spending 1500 to 2500 per season in heating costs. heat pumps even more.

I know that there are negatives to anything. but accessibility and cost both have to be considered for us. that's why we are considering a pellet stove

 

[Dataman]

I switched from BK King Wood Stove in May and started using Harmon XXV this Sep. Wood was FREE for me. Heck son is out cutting up trees from last snowstorm (own 10ac Forest). Ones that came down and such.

Pellet stove cost me about $6,000 with 5 Tons of Pellets. Your going to need more than 3 Tons. How much wood (Cords) did you use? At least that many tons plus couple extra.

I worry about if my new pellet stove will do the job in coldest month (I have seen -20f). My old Wood Stove had Catalyst and I typically loaded it up at 8pm and still going strong at 6am. It actually put out too much heat most of the time.

If your going to get Pellet stove, get the biggest baddest one you can buy. I should have gone with Harmon P68. Also disabled and glad to be done with cutting (using tool of death), Bucking Up (dangerous too, ask my Shoulder I tore), Splitting and then Stacking. Then moving and stacking and finally moving it everyday up to house (I kept 1 cord on porch). We would go thru 3-5 cords. I did not use wood stove until Nov typically if warm enough for Heat Pump (30f at nights).

If I was in your boots (high-heels, shoes, mucklacks, Goloshas) I would get better wood stove (catalyst) and put money towards insulation of the house. Biggest Payback.

Later save up for Pellet stove. Me I went from FREE heat to paying $1,000 now. I hope next year to only buy 3 tons. I think I will have 1 Ton left over after heating season (March)

I have place to store the pallets out of (Pellets) Weather. Back porch for about 1/2 ton and 10Ft Bay on Building on Wayward side of weather. (Wife's Happy Place Wood Shop). If you don't have place to keep pellets dry your going to need place.

 

[Mt Bob]

"If I was in your boots (high-heels, shoes, mucklacks, Goloshas) I would get better wood stove (catalyst) and put money towards insulation of the house. Biggest Payback." I agree.

 

[SciGuy]

Hello all n00b here. poor folks on impossibly tight budget. Location Blueridge Mountains SwVa.

What should I do within my abilities? Looking at a vogelzang vg5790 from tractor Supply. My son is coming home from school and will help me with the installation if we do it. I am mechanically inclined and great with youtube and can even wade through a decent "how to" forum post.

Now the information, I apologize for the length but I tried to think of everything relevant.

We have an old house built in 1925 by people who didn't follow proper design and construction methods. The Stick built house is on old telephone pole style pylons and field stone and skirted with tin with an opening under the front stairs. the floor joists run long ways on the house and have been shored up in dozens (plural) of places. there is zero insulation 2x4 framing with wood siding on the outside and wood tongue and groove walls on the inside. tin roof that I'm continually hunting down leaks. single pane windows. 2 chimneys. The original structure was approx 1200 square feet the attic was opened and stairs put in to add almost 500 square feet more. the stairs are center of the home longwise.

We currently have 3 inefficient old non-catalytic wood stoves (Fisher, a barrel stove and an unstamped stove that has to be toyed with constantly).

Insulation estimates exceed 15k. windows estimates exceed 8k, roofing estimates exceed 10k. and as I mentioned, we are poor and on an extremely tight budget I'm tackling 1 project at a time.

I'm disabled but capable of doing my own repairs. with help from my children I generally do all projects myself.

The benefits if it works, are keeping the afterthought water pipes running along the ceiling of the dining room from freezing all night without having to add wood every 3 hours (we can possibly get a full night's sleep during winter). also I wouldn't have to haul as many slabs from the lumber mill and cut them all summer long and haul more in the winter if we miscalculate.

Each winter we go through as little as 8 loads of slabs to as many as 17 depending on how cold it gets. I have a homemade headache rack and sides on an f350 powerstroke so each load is about 4x5x10 or so of mixed wood, with a fair bit of pine, poplar etc as well as some oak, hickory birch etc.

The local Harman dealer says that most old farm houses using pellets use between two to 3 tons of pellets in 5 months of heating. and his brand currently runs 217 per ton.

His stove is over 4000 plus accessories and we don't have that much money saved up given all the repairs we've been doing one at a time. so we're considering the vogelzang vg5790 at 1k plus about 200 in accessories, but the reviews are so polarized. A lot of good reviews but the bad are really bad.

Please inundate me with your wisdom.

we would likely put any pellet stove at at one end of the house blowing longwise towards the stairs to cover the pipes and the upstairs bedrooms. the downstairs is roughly 27'x29' With a 10.5'x7.3' addition.

the down stairs has been opened up (longwise) with the center wall mostly removed (ceiling shored up properly) save for the chimneys and bathroom, and the ceiling is 8.5' high. the upper level is about 6.5' at the peak with the ceiling sloping downward and is essentially two rooms one completely open from the stairs and 1 with a door but is around or less than 500 square feet. there are 4 dormers upstairs with single pane windows

Thank you for your patience and wisdom.

Here's a handy tool to help you compare heating costs of different fuel types. It may help you decide what makes the most sense in your specific situation.

https://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/home-energy-savings-program/heating-cost-comparison/

Hugh

 

[sprawlnstall]

I switched from BK King Wood Stove in May and started using Harmon XXV this Sep. Wood was FREE for me. Heck son is out cutting up trees from last snowstorm (own 10ac Forest). Ones that came down and such.

Pellet stove cost me about $6,000 with 5 Tons of Pellets. Your going to need more than 3 Tons. How much wood (Cords) did you use? At least that many tons plus couple extra.

I worry about if my new pellet stove will do the job in coldest month (I have seen -20f). My old Wood Stove had Catalyst and I typically loaded it up at 8pm and still going strong at 6am. It actually put out too much heat most of the time.

If your going to get Pellet stove, get the biggest baddest one you can buy. I should have gone with Harmon P68. Also disabled and glad to be done with cutting (using tool of death), Bucking Up (dangerous too, ask my Shoulder I tore), Splitting and then Stacking. Then moving and stacking and finally moving it everyday up to house (I kept 1 cord on porch). We would go thru 3-5 cords. I did not use wood stove until Nov typically if warm enough for Heat Pump (30f at nights).

If I was in your boots (high-heels, shoes, mucklacks, Goloshas) I would get better wood stove (catalyst) and put money towards insulation of the house. Biggest Payback.

Later save up for Pellet stove. Me I went from FREE heat to paying $1,000 now. I hope next year to only buy 3 tons. I think I will have 1 Ton left over after heating season (March)

I have place to store the pallets out of (Pellets) Weather. Back porch for about 1/2 ton and 10Ft Bay on Building on Wayward side of weather. (Wife's Happy Place Wood Shop). If you don't have place to keep pellets dry your going to need place.

You hit the nail on the head.

I stored pellets in my garage and had to navigate through two doors and up a couple steps to get pellets and come back with a 40lb bag in each hand. Now I can open my sliding door and walk 20 feet to the woodshed. Putting up wood is work, but so is driving an hour (my situation) to get as many bags of pellets my truck could carry and then come home and unload and stack them in my garage. A top of the line pellet stove will probably cost just as much as a top of the line cat stove too. I cut all of my own wood but can buy wood at a cheaper price than pellets.

 

[FunkDaddyG]

You hit the nail on the head.

I stored pellets in my garage and had to navigate through two doors and up a couple steps to get pellets and come back with a 40lb bag in each hand. Now I can open my sliding door and walk 20 feet to the woodshed. Putting up wood is work, but so is driving an hour (my situation) to get as many bags of pellets my truck could carry and then come home and unload and stack them in my garage. A top of the line pellet stove will probably cost just as much as a top of the line cat stove too. I cut all of my own wood but can buy wood at a cheaper price than pellets.

fortunately for us the local Harman dealer sells it by the bag the same as by the ton so we don't have to store 3 tons right away if we go with pellets. we can get a pallet or less at a time in good weather and store it on pallets on the back porch.

I'll definitely check out the website for comparison of fuel costs. I would estimate (ignoring all of the labor) that we spend about 550 to 650 each winter getting wood cutting it, etc.

 

[mikkeeh]

The TSC stove is rated at 65,000btu/hr......if pellets are 7000bty/lb......that’s nearly 10 lbs/hr. So figure you won’t run at max output all the time....you’re looking at 4-5 bags/day....At 4.50/bag, that’s a minimum of $18/day or $540/mo.

I thing you’d be ahead to get a quality woodburner, and work on sealing drafts and insulation.

JMHO

 

[SpaceBus]

I don't think a pellet stove saves much in the long run. Your Fisher would put out more heat and I'm surprised you can't get an all night burn out of it. Tell us about your flue setup for the Fisher.

I understand the wood situation for you is less than ideal, but I don't think your budget would work with pellets. Since your wood is free, that sounds like the best option. Use that money towards a better stove setup or improving your chimney. Possibly look for a used EPA stove on Craigslist or Facebook.

 

[jackman]

is your home old and drafty? No. I'm a well insulated home built in 2006.

Do you have any insight on the vogelzang vg5790. No.


how large of an area do you heat? is it your primary source of heat? The stove heats about 1600 sq ft in a walk out finished basement. It supplements the primary which is a heat pump for the upstairs about 2400 sq ft.

There's a lot of good suggestions from others.

 

[maple1]

I also can't see pellets as a money saving venture, at all. Maybe compared to resistance electric, but that's about it.

I would look to updating a stove.

Does your state have energy efficiency programs? Most do - they assess what is needed, then fund it. Especially for low income families. Anyone here from VA have any input on that?

Insulating should be goal number 1, overall.

 

[rparker]

Check and see if your state has an energy efficiency program. Here in Vermont they are offering rebates up to $1000 to upgrade old wood burners to new, efficient ones.

 

[Highbeam]

If you're fisher can't keep up without reloading every 3 hours then priority #1 is sealing up the house. 15 thousand to insulate is a ripoff. The insulation materials are not expensive but your problems are not just insulation but air sealing. Actual holes or leaks of heated air.

The pellet stoves offer great convenience at a high cost. High fuel cost and high maintenance cost.

 

[Mt Bob]

"The pellet stoves offer great convenience at a high cost. High fuel cost and high maintenance cost." Have to disagree.Many different pellet stoves,different grades of pellets,lots of different installs.Where I am at,a cord of fir is 235,a ton of premium pellets 245(yet there is cheaper ones.After burning a ton,I can clean my accentra,and the flue,in one beer.

 

[SpaceBus]

"The pellet stoves offer great convenience at a high cost. High fuel cost and high maintenance cost." Have to disagree.Many different pellet stoves,different grades of pellets,lots of different installs.Where I am at,a cord of fir is 235,a ton of premium pellets 245(yet there is cheaper ones.After burning a ton,I can clean my accentra,and the flue,in one beer.

Yeah, but his firewood is free. Pellet stoves only make sense if you pay for firewood

 

[Mt Bob]

Yeah, but his firewood is free. Pellet stoves only make sense if you pay for firewood

I have 4 neighbors that buy firewood,just up here.Not everyone gets it free.

 

[SpaceBus]

I have 4 neighbors that buy firewood,just up here.Not everyone gets it free.

I get that, but his specifically is free.

 

[FunkDaddyG]

you've all given me a lot to consider. my wood is not free I buy it cheaply from a sawmill that's about 25 to 30 miles from my house. adding the cost to the transport and the price of each load of wood I estimate that I spend a maximum of between 500 and 600 in a winter season again this is ignoring the labor, which is getting more difficult as the years go by.

The local Harman dealer said most people use between two and three tons of pellets in a winter season at 217 per ton that's 651 for the same season, so approx 100 more for the entire season than wood alone.

but what I'm understanding here is that this estimate is completely wrong. I certainly need to do more research.

the only option for insulation here is drilling holes and blowing in insulation. this isn't cheap. and I would have to get the windows finished first

 

[maple1]

Echo: check for state efficiency programs.

 

[maple1]

And I could see you burning through more than a ton a month.

 

[Mt Bob]

What your Harman dealer means nothing,I would venture to say most do not live in such a poorly insulated home.Also,a pellet stove being mostly automatic,you will run it longer,and warmer.Also,you get a cold day(for your area) with high wind,you can really crank a wood stove,pellet stoves do not do that.Do you even put plastic over your windows,or have made internal plastic storm windows?Will leave a link later.Heck,I did that back in the 70's in MD.Also,if you spray foam insulation(yes,tear out the walls)it is so much better.A lot of times,the windows are not the big problem,it is where the windows are connected to the framework,poor/no sealer.So may things you can do yourself.And,the price you gave on the pellets,high quality or cheepos?And,pellet prices are known to change within months.There was 2 years I never burned my pellet stove,because propane was cheaper.Just some food for thought.

 

[Mt Bob]

Echo: check for state efficiency programs.

To me,this is about the same as subsidizing solar.Help should come from family first,community next,and on up,not taxing everyone in the state for such programs.