Performed surgery on my new stove.
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Gonna try to tackle that before tonight's burn. I can feel the primary plate but can't see it
After a week and a half of fighting overfires on the new stove I think I finally found the culprit. Us stove co. Makes this stove with a stopper that keeps the primary air from closing all the way. Only way to access that part is to cut some metal out. It's inside a welded on box. So I cut a piece of that box out. And made a little block off plate that clips into the opening. Then I stove silicone it in place. I also sealed the boost air shut. First time I've ever been able to slow down the fire once it gets going with only the primary. Before with a load this the stove would be running 800f with all 3 damper in the flue closed. Right now she's chugging along at less than 500f and all 3 dampers are open. Hopefully this is the last thing to do to this stove
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307602-ef43253f57004e31399b33ac4db5fc24.jpg?hash=wfa6qeoxjh "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307603-8fc1c6838923b619a221da3250b16791.jpg?hash=cexmwXRd-L "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307604-afc30a7bf50bebafd5b28b76a5db22c6.jpg?hash=d0yeFz-qrt "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307605-34ebf203c7ff01fefb2ef52b2f6c76a8.jpg?hash=oNwMYT2uEI "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307606-afba854c38620da3d53e5e0e43823e5d.jpg?hash=w6-BWS5ore "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307607-9faa9ffefdbe707e05d2e40510bf8f44.jpg?hash=fuh-oMn1E8 "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
@moresnow you were right. Primary was the problem. Kept boost air plate sealed for now to. Had to cut an acces panel out to fix it. But us stove co. Put a stopper in primary channel so that even in closed position there was an 1 to 1.5 inch gap. Made a block off plate that clips in and I sealed it to make sure it doesn't come loose. Right now stove top is at 630 and all my dampers are open!! Have actually had to keep primary open just a bit to keep flue temps up
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307608-8fc1c6838923b619a221da3250b16791.jpg?hash=cexmwXRd-L "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307609-afc30a7bf50bebafd5b28b76a5db22c6.jpg?hash=d0yeFz-qrt "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307610-4b8337d3e2abed1a34ac819b387d14c4.jpg?hash=4lO_QT0Ne1 "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
Couple hours into burn. Primary was definitely the problem. All dampers open primary closed stovetop 600 external flue temp 230 good secondaries rolling
Is the primary air closing 100% now or can some primary air still get through to maintain the air wash for the door glass?
It's not an airtight seal. If I hold a insence up underneath it some of the smoke is very slightly sucked in. Not all of it not even half. But some. By the way I called us stove co. And left them a message about this design
One good thing us stove did on this model. Is the secondary tubes. Once I got her settled in last night she was burning nothing but secondaries for at least 3 hours. Probably longer I went yo bed so I don't know. Way longer than on the vg2020
Did you leave the secondary air wide open?
Nice find on the primary, that will do it when you can't shut it down all the way with higher draft environments. They design these stoves to run on 15ft chimney to pass the emissions tests, everyone else is screwed. They locked that down so your everyday person can't go changing it, I am sure that was part of the inspection for emissions, you just pulled a VW
Nice find on the primary, that will do it when you can't shut it down all the way with higher draft environments. They design these stoves to run on 15ft chimney to pass the emissions tests, everyone else is screwed. They locked that down so your everyday person can't go changing it, I am sure that was part of the inspection for emissions, you just pulled a VW
I suspected US Stove had done something to prevent the operator from being able to slow the burn down just like they did in the 1269e I have. I really think they are just using this as a method to pass epa emissions. Unfortunately it’s making the stoves dangerous.
Good job on finding the solution. That secondary burn time is pretty impressive. Looks like you’ve turned this into a nice running stove.
Good job on finding the solution. That secondary burn time is pretty impressive. Looks like you’ve turned this into a nice running stove.
@mellow at one point I did block the secondary intake because it is unregulated on this stove. But they are open now. I did have to shut all 3 dampers this morning before work it was getting hot I may not of shut the primary early enough. Still have some learning to do. Came home to a warm house blackened stove glass and about 5 inches of coals in the stove after almost a 13hr burn
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
Blackened stove glass means you need to leave the primary air open a bit more. As you mentioned, you could have turned down the primary sooner, and as you get used to the stove over the next few months you will know exactly when. The times I am too slow on the primary air adjustments my stoves burn hot and fast, but not uncontrollably as your unmodified stove was doing. Now that you have tamed the hot burns, you can actually learn how it wants to run.
mdocod
Burning Hunk
Trying to make a wood stove that can burn clean and efficient and at safe burn rates throughout all the stages of a burn cycle is fraught with complications.
I was actually preparing a response to this thread to warn about what will happen if the stove is choked down too much. Looks like you already found out. A layer of unburnt wood smoke deposited on the glass and probably through most of the chimney system. Was is a burn cycle or a smolder cycle?
More experiments/adjustments required. I wonder what little tricks some of the other stove brands or designs have in play, either intentionally, or stumbled on by accident, that would help balance this problem.
The popular Englander 32-NC may be a stove worth studying for clues about what changes would improve the behavior of your stove. One thing I notice about that stove, is that it appears to have larger steel channels dedicated to the secondary burn tube air supply, while simultaneously having a lower burn rate overall. This is telling... it means that the secondary combustion air is probably entering the box hotter and slightly slower than on the US3200E. This would allow the secondaries to stay lit through a longer slower burn cycle.
I was actually preparing a response to this thread to warn about what will happen if the stove is choked down too much. Looks like you already found out. A layer of unburnt wood smoke deposited on the glass and probably through most of the chimney system. Was is a burn cycle or a smolder cycle?
More experiments/adjustments required. I wonder what little tricks some of the other stove brands or designs have in play, either intentionally, or stumbled on by accident, that would help balance this problem.
The popular Englander 32-NC may be a stove worth studying for clues about what changes would improve the behavior of your stove. One thing I notice about that stove, is that it appears to have larger steel channels dedicated to the secondary burn tube air supply, while simultaneously having a lower burn rate overall. This is telling... it means that the secondary combustion air is probably entering the box hotter and slightly slower than on the US3200E. This would allow the secondaries to stay lit through a longer slower burn cycle.
Riddle me this. So I let the stove take off really slow. Like shutdown air at 200f flue temps cause the Flames seemed lazy but good. Once stove top git to 650 shutdown 2 of the 3 dampers. Now I can't see any actual Flames from the wood just secondaries. And they are slow and lazy. Just shutdown 3rd damper But stt and flue temps just keeps climbing . Dunno what else I can do? Why does this stove get so hot when it's clearly running lazily? I didn't even load it stuffed full.
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307704-fcf078a1ddb42feb3866085318b5245e.jpg?hash=8N-C9T98f9 "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307705-85ae5109d0139df0917dd8699f53bb77.jpg?hash=5CcmF_v6tk "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
This is me laying on the ground looking up through the glass. Alot of Flames are going around the front of the tubes/ceramic fiber baffle. Maybe fire needs built farther back? Maybe I need to find a way to extend these baffles?
It's hotter than hell in here lol. Stove top got to 888f in the Hotspot. Turned off all lights and it wasn't glowing but can definitely smell that hot stove smell. Last temp check she's down to 850 so slowly coming down
Lol. Well closing down the 3 manual pipe dampers is restricting all the heat and the gases to the stove so I’d suspect that’s what’s causing such a high stovetop temp.
I’ve never seen secondaries burn like that. That’s like a stove with a catalytic com-buster in it.
If it were me I would be trying to control the temps more with the primary air. Closing all three mpd’s is too restrictive.
It may also be helpful to get a manometer set up to the stove so you can see what kind of draft you actually have. It’s not a good idea to close a stove down so much that there isn’t enough draft.
I’ve never seen secondaries burn like that. That’s like a stove with a catalytic com-buster in it.
If it were me I would be trying to control the temps more with the primary air. Closing all three mpd’s is too restrictive.
It may also be helpful to get a manometer set up to the stove so you can see what kind of draft you actually have. It’s not a good idea to close a stove down so much that there isn’t enough draft.
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mdocod
Burning Hunk
Looks like it's rolling secondary combustion pretty heavy above the baffle..
FYI: the photo of your IR temperature gun there shows the laser light landed right next to the face of your temp dial. The laser is just there to help you point it. The actual reading is being taken over a much wider area. Depending on the D/S ratio of the gun... Nicer guns will have very tight ratios, cheaper ones are wider. The reading in that photo is probably being influenced about 30% from the face of the dial, not the stove pipe.
All the creosote on the inside of the stove from the smolder cycle is probably burning off now...
FYI: the photo of your IR temperature gun there shows the laser light landed right next to the face of your temp dial. The laser is just there to help you point it. The actual reading is being taken over a much wider area. Depending on the D/S ratio of the gun... Nicer guns will have very tight ratios, cheaper ones are wider. The reading in that photo is probably being influenced about 30% from the face of the dial, not the stove pipe.
All the creosote on the inside of the stove from the smolder cycle is probably burning off now...
Just realized this ir is only rated to 716f possible false readings? @mdocod cod I try to get the ir gun as close to the surface as I can to make that measuring ratio small. Is this wrong? @3650 do you think I'd be better to leave the dampers open? I'm more concerned about stove top temps than the flue temps even though those are high to
![[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/307/307711-2395196dd2842644e36e46034dd3b97e.jpg?hash=dZ89YJNSlq "[Hearth.com] Performed surgery on my new stove.")
mdocod
Burning Hunk
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12:1 ratio.. at 1' away you're measuring about a 1" wide circle.
IR guns read most accurate when measuring a surface that is 90 degrees to the gun. A stove pipe is round so will always be imperfect in this regard. Expect slightly lower than actual readings from the IR gun, but to get the most accurate reading possible I would hold it about 6-8" away, directly at the middle of the pipe at a 90 degree angle to the pipe, around the side away from the face of the temp meter.
716F should be plenty of range for surface temps of the stove pipe, but might not be accurate for your stove top temps.
I think the "rule of thumb" is that single wall stove pipe will be about half the surface temp as the gases passing through it, but this varies depending on how much fluffy soot is deposited inside the pipe acting as insulation, and other factors, but if we're being honest, none of the other ways to measure a flue temp are much better.
