PE Vista Classic or Jotul F 3 CB

[bcnu]

Had pretty much settled on the Jotul, but after reading more in these forums I'm wondering about the PE. Both stoves are available fairly close by. Cost of Jotul is a shade over $1200. Here's the home info:
two story plus basement, ranch built in 66. Nothing but attic on upper floor and ceilings are insulated. Oil F/A furnace. Fireplace on inside wall with masonry chimney(that I will reline) Just remodeled two rooms into one so it's a 30x30 area that is fairly open. Floor insulated, new double pane windows and french door. 8 ft. ceiling and no ceiling fan. Not really trying to get heat into bedrooms down hallway(but won't be sad for any heat that drifts that way.) Want to heat 24/7 and use oil for backup as much as possible. Let's see, what am I forgetting??

Pretty set on the Jotul, thanks to advise from Be Green and others(although I might have given a smaller sq footage in my original question - so hope the 3 CB still adequate.) My question: what might I gain with the PE Vista instead of the Jotul? ie longer burn time, better technology, a red (ok, maroon) stove. I've read the other posts and hope to hear especially from Newtofire and Roospike, as well as any others who want to weigh in. Thanks
PS: Hope this isn't a controversial topic(here is where I would put a smiley - but last time I tried I found the smiley's and lost my post. And I thought I knew more about computers than wood stoves!)

 

[BrotherBart]

As far as the F3 goes I heat my office with one. If you are into getting up every four hours to load it and spend twenty or thirty minutes to wait for the load to settle in before you go back to bed then it will be fine. Personally, if it wasn't heating an area where I am available to feed it I would make you a great deal on the thing. I got as good performance in this 1,000 square foot space from the little F100 last winter.

Wahoowad has one and maybe he can weigh in on his experience with his. Maybe his is doing a better job. Lots of people have them and like them, I guess I am just a bigger woodstove kinda guy.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Not sure where you are, but there is a coal burning model of the Jotul 3 available... one load every 12 hours and you're set... just food for thought.
If you're going to heat 24/7 I'd suggest a larger stove, nothing smaller than a Castine 400 from Jotul, the 500 or 600s being better. While you don't want to smoke yourself out of the house, you don't want to have to reload it every 4 hours either.


-- Mike

 

[Hogwildz]

I say Summit Classic with ETB in whorehouse red!
Ok OK all lemme have it.

 

[Mike Wilson]

I say SUmmit Classi with ETB
Ok OK all lemme have it.

Ahh yes, the dreaded ETB... I hear they have a cream for that now :sick:

-- Mike

 

[Hogwildz]

oops I meant EBT, and yes a special blend of cream does help it. Of course A few of these beers works just as well

 

[Gunner]

Where do you live? If you live somewhere with an actual winter, I would look at a bigger stove...I would not want to run a vista 24/7, even working for home it would be a PITA. 2 story with a 900sqft stove room Spectrum no problem.

 

[bcnu]

Reside just outside Portland Or. where we used to have winter Just tied our all time high of 58 a couple of days ago. But winter will come!

 

[Roospike]

Its kinda on your shoulders ..............

#1 You have an upstairs that does/dont? need to be heated ?
#2 Dont/do? need heat in the bedrooms ?
#3 30X30 is a good size room
#4 24/7 heat

How many sf of the home are you going to heat?
How many sf of the home are you going to be heating down the road?

The PE Vista Classic or Jotul F 3 CB are cute and will do fine to heat the 30x30 room when your there and you'll get some heat to other rooms but are not 24/7 wood stoves.

If burning 24/7 the Jotul 600 / Pacific Energy Summit will keep your house warm and keep "the man" away.

Money an issue ? Look at it this way , the cost divided by 20 years and its a stove that going to be looking at you as well as you looking at it year around , year after year , after year , after year.......

I dont think i found a post or thread were someone stated that there stove was "too big" but you see many a post mentioning undersized stove.

Let us know the sf you are going to be heating 24/7

Warren , how that saying go on stoves ? "Go big or go home"

****************************************************************************

$2000.oo stove divided by 20 years = only $100.oo per year

$3000.oo stove and chimney divided by 20 years = only $150.oo per year

The nice thing is the wood will pay for the stove / chimney cutting out "The man"

O'Yeah , We cant forget about the EBT on the Summit for long burn times. EBT ("Patented Extended Burn Technology”.
(broken link removed to http://chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm)

 

[Roospike]

bcnu , Here is a thread you might find interesting .................

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/5661/

 

[wahoowad]

...every four hours to load it and spend twenty or thirty minutes to wait for the load to settle in...

As Bro. Bart said...the 3CB will give you a 3 to 4 hour burn, and I too have had to spend 30 minutes waiting for the load to settle in before it has settled in. This is my first stove, and I'm also heating a large odd shaped room so I don't really know how this stove would perform in a different shaped house. I have a high ceiling (yes, a ceiling fan too) in my stove room which significantly impacts heat flow for me. Try to get advice from someone with a house similar to yours if possible.

I like my 3CB, but am not as in love with it as some others seem to be with their other brand stove. Also, I'm in Virginia, not the great white North like some of you. I'm kinda curious to read someone's comparative analysis of this other stove you mention

 

[bcnu]

1. no heat needed to attic - if we ever convert it to living space it will need its own heat source
2. not excpecting much heat to the bedrooms
3. would like to heat 24/7 - ie. next weeks temps 20's to mid 30's for lows , so we do get some winter
4. home is 1500 sq ft
5. I'll be happy to heat the 900 sq ft room (30x 30)
6. Money always an issue. However I'm also looking at stove as part of the remodel project so willing to spend more now.
7. Roospike, thanks for the thread. I had already viewed it but reread it. Someday I'll have to learn how to make those dandy film loops!

So, how might the PE Spectrum work since it's the in-between size?

Wahoowad, thanks for your input. I had decided more frequent firings were acceptable, but lately I've been rethinking that - especially when I read about 30 minutes or so to get the Jotul back to a good burn. Is that different with a PE stove? Guess I'm still wondreing if the PE stoves have a leg up on the Jotul(and what that leg might be) - or if it's still a matter of personal preference.

 

[elkimmeg]

this is a new year so my resolutions are over I get an honest 8 hour burn with 450 Degree heat with the reload. Pretty satisfied with my stove preformance
I love the top loading feature but it the long even heat range of over 500 degrees that's the winner The stove is practically set and forget it once the damper is closed
n My prior stove I goyt up during the night to load them this burns productive through the night.

Im waiting for winter to show up so BB can really put his englander through the paces.
My stove is an Encore there are many good stove models and manufactures Harman oakwood, Quad Island Ropyal and the list goes on

Never seen a PE up close Not many dealers in this area, Course from what I read here if they have a fire burning one would not want to get that close
the summits are heating beast. Especially red ones..

 

[Mike Wilson]

The PE Summit isn't an in between stove... unless by in between you mean in between a Vista and burning your home down. Its the largest of PEs offerings, much like the Jotul Firelight 600 is the large Jotul, etc. All stoves are going to take 20-30 minutes to heat up after you put a new load of wood in, its more a function of how dry your splits are, the size of the splits, etc. than the stove itself. My Jotul Kennebec takes a good 20 minutes to get back up and steaming, sometimes faster if I have more coals in the stove, sometimes slower if I don't have much left. I noticed in your signature you had an insert... are you looking at freestanding stoves only, or inserts as well?

Overall, my concern if I were you would be to get a stove that did not need frequent tending, something that can sustain an overnight burn with sufficient coals in the morning to just throw on a few splits and get her going again. Tending a woodstove 24/7 does become a chore in about mid-February, and if you can get one that goes 8 or more hours between loads, do so. When burning 24/7, I reload mine consistently on an 8-9 hour schedule, sometimes 10-12 hours on Saturday mornings if I sleep in, etc. Most any mid to large stove can do this, its not magic, and its not manufacturer specific. Size=Time, there's no way to do it otherwise. Even a large Quadrafire can keep you warm for 8 hours at a shot... the Quad 5700 is massive, probably get a good 10-12 hours from that one. Quality-wise, on this site you'll find people love their PEs, their Jotuls, and several other brands. Both are completely top quality. There's one guy who loves his Vermont Castings, but we're looking into getting him more medication shortly.

Best advice: read, read, read, then go look, then read some more, then buy. Roospike's comment about nobody ever complaining about a stove that's too big is completely true... we get more people complaining about "my stove is too small, damned" than we get "oh no, poor me, its too warm around here and the wife just dropped her blouse." If you are doing this as part of a remodel, do it right, get a large, top quality stove that fits your decor... remember, you're only burning 3-4 months per year, the rest of the time its a bookshelf in your living room.

Good Luck,

-- Mike

PS -- BB, what was the difference in burn times you were getting from the Jotul F3 compared to the 100?

 

[BrotherBart]

PS -- BB, what was the difference in burn times you were getting from the Jotul F3 compared to the 100?

Most of the time we get about the same out of them. Because of the lower baffle in the F3 they both hold about the same amount of wood. There is more mass to the F3 is all.

 

[Gunner]

There are many good brands out there, get one you like the looks of and has the features you want in your price range.

Whatever brand you get IMO you should be looking at around 2cuft fireboxes. Stoves by any MFG of this size should be capable of an 8 hr burn.

 

[Gunner]

[quote

Never seen a PE up close Not many dealers in this area, Course from what I read here if they have a fire burning one would not want to get that close
the summits are heating beast. Especially red ones..[/quote]


Elk, you should really find and PE and see it in action. I was totally surprised by the gently heat put out by my summit. Due to the double wall design the heat is nothing like a straight plate steel stove. Corner install can be 4" to combustibles, they are true convection heaters. I could have the plate top temp at 800 and if you stand next to the stove you would never believe it. Forget EBT, the ash dump system, floating firebox or any other feature, IMO it's the double walled design that really makes PE's stoves different for any other MFG.

 

[bcnu]

Mike, right, about Summit being a big stove. I was wondering about the Spectrum, as the web site I looked at listed it as mid size (between Vista and Summit) Will the Spectrum hold a fire 6-8 hours. If I remember correctly the firebox is 1.5 cu ft. so perhaps it's still on the small side of holding along fire. Is the EBT from Pacific Energy all that different, or better, than the clean burn terminology from other stoves? Thanks for info on reloading and geting a fire back to a good burn. I'm leaning heavily toward a stove rather than an insert.

 

[begreen]

Had pretty much settled on the Jotul, but after reading more in these forums I'm wondering about the PE. Both stoves are available fairly close by. Cost of Jotul is a shade over $1200. Here's the home info:
two story plus basement, ranch built in 66. Nothing but attic on upper floor and ceilings are insulated. Oil F/A furnace. Fireplace on inside wall with masonry chimney(that I will reline) Just remodeled two rooms into one so it's a 30x30 area that is fairly open. Floor insulated, new double pane windows and french door. 8 ft. ceiling and no ceiling fan. Not really trying to get heat into bedrooms down hallway(but won't be sad for any heat that drifts that way.) Want to heat 24/7 and use oil for backup as much as possible. Let's see, what am I forgetting??

Pretty set on the Jotul, thanks to advise from Be Green and others(although I might have given a smaller sq footage in my original question - so hope the 3 CB still adequate.) My question: what might I gain with the PE Vista instead of the Jotul? ie longer burn time, better technology, a red (ok, maroon) stove. I've read the other posts and hope to hear especially from Newtofire and Roospike, as well as any others who want to weigh in. Thanks
PS: Hope this isn't a controversial topic(here is where I would put a smiley - but last time I tried I found the smiley's and lost my post. And I thought I knew more about computers than wood stoves!)

Well, I hate to throw a monkey wrench into the plans, but if you are ok with the difference in aesthetics, I would give the PE stove a long hard look. The 3CB is a fine and pretty heater. It's nicely finished and looks great. If you are using it primarily as a morning chill chaser and evening warmer, it will do the job very well. However, if you intend to run the stove for longer periods of time, the Vista Classic may be better for you. Our neighbor installed one this fall in his 1300 sq ft house and has been very happy with it. It is definitely better for holding a long fire and still having coals for the morning startup. When the fan kicks in it really puts out the heat. Yet it runs at a long low burn very well and cleanly. I rarely see smoke from his chimney except at startup. Overall the stove seems better designed towards getting the most heat our of our Pac NW wood and has really impressed me.


Edit - that should be a Super 27 Classic.

 

[yukiginger]

I would be looking at 2.5 cu. ft. as a minimum firebox size. The cost difference between medium and large stoves is not that great, as others have pointed out (especially over many years). In fact, others have already said all I want to reinforce: not many people complain of oversized stoves; more size means more capacity, means longer burn times (when needed), and also LESS TENDING (over many seasons this makes a big difference); on those real cold nights you might want more heating capacity overnight than a 2 ft. stove can possibly provide.

I have two units in the house: a Quadrafire 4100i insert on the first floor (2.47 cu. ft. box) and a Lopi freestander (2.2 cu. ft.) in the basement. I wish both were bigger (2,600 sq. ft. house [not including basement] in western/central NY).

Good luck and be sure to update us.

MarkG

 

[Gunner]

The spectrum is an 8 hr stove for sure. The dealerthat I got my stove from heats his house with one exclusively. I was told to expect 8hr from the spectrum and 12 from the summit.

I believe the EBT was added to give lower emissions because of the large firebox. It is nice to have but wouldn't base my decision to buy a stove on it.

If I had to give up one or the other- EBT or the ash dump system it would be bye bye EBT.

 

[Gunner]

Had pretty much settled on the Jotul, but after reading more in these forums I'm wondering about the PE. Both stoves are available fairly close by. Cost of Jotul is a shade over $1200. Here's the home info:
two story plus basement, ranch built in 66. Nothing but attic on upper floor and ceilings are insulated. Oil F/A furnace. Fireplace on inside wall with masonry chimney(that I will reline) Just remodeled two rooms into one so it's a 30x30 area that is fairly open. Floor insulated, new double pane windows and french door. 8 ft. ceiling and no ceiling fan. Not really trying to get heat into bedrooms down hallway(but won't be sad for any heat that drifts that way.) Want to heat 24/7 and use oil for backup as much as possible. Let's see, what am I forgetting??

Pretty set on the Jotul, thanks to advise from Be Green and others(although I might have given a smaller sq footage in my original question - so hope the 3 CB still adequate.) My question: what might I gain with the PE Vista instead of the Jotul? ie longer burn time, better technology, a red (ok, maroon) stove. I've read the other posts and hope to hear especially from Newtofire and Roospike, as well as any others who want to weigh in. Thanks
PS: Hope this isn't a controversial topic(here is where I would put a smiley - but last time I tried I found the smiley's and lost my post. And I thought I knew more about computers than wood stoves!)

Well, I hate to throw a monkey wrench into the plans, but if you are ok with the difference in aesthetics, I would give the PE stove a long hard look. The 3CB is a fine and pretty heater. It's nicely finished and looks great. If you are using it primarily as a morning chill chaser and evening warmer, it will do the job very well. However, if you intend to run the stove for longer periods of time, the Vista Classic may be better for you. Our neighbor installed one this fall in his 1300 sq ft house and has been very happy with it. It is definitely better for holding a long fire and still having coals for the morning startup. When the fan kicks in it really puts out the heat. Yet it runs at a long low burn very well and cleanly. I rarely see smoke from his chimney except at startup. Overall the stove seems better designed towards getting the most heat our of our Pac NW wood and has really impressed me.

BEGREEN, I remember you mentioning you neighbours PE... but I thought it was the spectrum not the vista.

 

[BrotherBart]

A seldom mentioned thing with bigger steel stoves. I am noticing with the big Englander that on these cold morning/warm afternoon days that I can fire it for a couple of hours and let it burn down. Between coals and the phenomenal heat retention of all of that steel and over a hundred pounds of firebrick the blower on medium or low puts out 100+ degree heat for over three hours before the thermostat I have attached cuts it off at 100 stove body temp. Since half of it is in the fireplace firebox the fireplace masonary is giving off gentle heat during this time also. And the current usage of the blower at that speed is less than 50 watts.

My old steel insert was heavier but not brick lined and could never manage that trick.

 

[begreen]

Oops you're right, they have a Super 27 Classic.

 

[BrotherBart]

I believe the EBT was added to give lower emissions because of the large firebox. It is nice to have but wouldn't base my decision to buy a stove on it.

I have wondered about that. My stove has a half cubic foot larger firebox than the Summit and no EBT but blew half of what the Summit did on the EPA Breathalizer.