BeGreen, your blessing on the PE has me very interested in it now - especially since you have the Jotul's I was sold on. Granted, the look of the PE is much different than the Jotul - but the wife and I like the pictures. We'll take a look at a real one in the store next week. Question - I'm sure the PE's can be rear vented - but I can't find that info anywhere. Thanks everyone also for the comments on bigger stoves - I had read many posts about smaller stove vs bigger stove concerning over/under firing, burn time etc. and I see there is still much to learn.
PE Vista Classic or Jotul F 3 CB
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I'm not knocking the 3CB, but I would go up to the Castine at least if you want to burn 24/7. That is why we upgraded from the 3CB. But be sure you have good draft for the F400 if you are going to rear-vent it. To my knowledge the PE stoves are strictly top vented. This is one of the reasons why we don't have one, though in retrospect its performance is good enough that I might put up with an offset in the pipe.
Sounds like all good advise here. Coming from one who (when the weather is actually cold) runs 24/7 with a 1.8 cuft firebox, I'd say get the bigger stove. (I had no option given my install limits/budget constraints) The 3cb and Vista (one of the stoves I considered strongly but could not actually get locally) are both smaller stoves, and considering the size area your heating, I'd say go bigger. Yes my stove does manage to heat the house, but does not keep up when temps drop below 10 degrees for any length of time. When people have asked me about my stove or getting the bigger version (2200 vs 1800) I've pushed towards the 2200's. If you notice on these forums I think only one other person (Kate-of SO likes to toss in wet logs fame) ended up with the 1800. Bigger would be better.
About a month ago I visited a local stove shop up in Red Hook, just to see what they had and what their shop looked like. They had a large Quad running (blower on, but barely audible) Not sure which model, but it was cooking a single good size split that looked positively lost in the firebox. The size split where I could have only loaded 2 of them in my stove. I'd say that stove was putting out similar amounts of heat to my stove if I had that split burning. This is really subjective I know, but stove to stove comparisons are just that way. What struck me was the nice lazy flame in the stove and a good amount of heat from it. My Osburn will do the same but same split is much more stuffed, meaning more frequent reloads and less top end heat output.
Point here is that small load, nice easy decent heat, but If that quad were then loaded to the hilt, I'm sure the amount of heat would have been seriously impressive. This is what Spike is getting at. Buy bigger, it gives you more options.
About a month ago I visited a local stove shop up in Red Hook, just to see what they had and what their shop looked like. They had a large Quad running (blower on, but barely audible) Not sure which model, but it was cooking a single good size split that looked positively lost in the firebox. The size split where I could have only loaded 2 of them in my stove. I'd say that stove was putting out similar amounts of heat to my stove if I had that split burning. This is really subjective I know, but stove to stove comparisons are just that way. What struck me was the nice lazy flame in the stove and a good amount of heat from it. My Osburn will do the same but same split is much more stuffed, meaning more frequent reloads and less top end heat output.
Point here is that small load, nice easy decent heat, but If that quad were then loaded to the hilt, I'm sure the amount of heat would have been seriously impressive. This is what Spike is getting at. Buy bigger, it gives you more options.
Warren said:
I'm fairly certain you could fit the Vista inside that (broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/products/stoves/woodStoveDetail.asp?f=5700)... hell, who needs a splitter with something that big! Hey honey, help me lift this round into the stove, and get the kids out of the reburn chamber!
3.44cu/ft firebox... "easily" fits 24" splits... 3500sq/ft heating capacity ... Moooohahhahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaa
:coolgrin: -- Mike
We have a Vista insert and it heats our home just fine. Granted, it will not burn for 6 hours without a reload, but you will find enough good coals for a quick restart. I think a lot depends on the type and quality of wood you are using. Also, the amount of insulation in your home will greatly effect the stove's ability to do what you want. I did a lot of looking before I went with PE, since they are kind of rare here, but I haven't regretted it at all. I looked at Buck, Regency, and Jotul as my best choices other than PE, since dealers are close, but the PE just looked like a better built stove.
In this case, bigger is better, and less is NOT more.
I suggest the larger as the rest have. I would also like to strongly suggest getting one with a blower. And very strongly suggest getting one with a blower that has a variable speed control! That way when you want max heat, get her good and hot & set the blower to high. If your feeling a lil too warm, but not enough to klill the blower all together, then you can dial in the amount blown out you want. That was one of many factors that led me to my Summit. I was considering a Regency, and one drawback was the hi/low fan speed settings. Nothing in between. Variable speed gives you more control over how much heat you want blown off the beast.
Just my know nothing 2cents.
I suggest the larger as the rest have. I would also like to strongly suggest getting one with a blower. And very strongly suggest getting one with a blower that has a variable speed control! That way when you want max heat, get her good and hot & set the blower to high. If your feeling a lil too warm, but not enough to klill the blower all together, then you can dial in the amount blown out you want. That was one of many factors that led me to my Summit. I was considering a Regency, and one drawback was the hi/low fan speed settings. Nothing in between. Variable speed gives you more control over how much heat you want blown off the beast.
Just my know nothing 2cents.
Mike Wilson said:Warren said:
I'm fairly certain you could fit the Vista inside that (broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/products/stoves/woodStoveDetail.asp?f=5700)... hell, who needs a splitter with something that big! Hey honey, help me lift this round into the stove, and get the kids out of the reburn chamber!
3.44cu/ft firebox... "easily" fits 24" splits... 3500sq/ft heating capacity ... Moooohahhahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaa
-- Mike
Yup, that's what it looked like. They also had a pellet stove and a Quad 7100fp EPA fireplace going. Now if the firebox on the Quad is 3.44 cuft, that fireplace they had must have been like 5+ cuft. If anyone around here is really looking for massive, that one claims to handle 24" logs same as the 5700 stove, but I'm telling you the it sure looked a lot bigger.
That fireplace also can heat remote zones by adding vent pipes. I wonder if one of those could be used to push heat into a basement effectively.
![[Hearth.com] PE Vista Classic or Jotul F 3 CB](/talk/data/attachments/2/2441-9c70d93819e9652b1612cc7bc3b7cdc2.jpg?hash=QIy5PdS3jG)
BB,
You still need to put the kindling in and torch that stuff. :lol:
Actually, Natty was a mainstay in college and even an occasional dirty pleasure now. I went down your way once and asked for a Natty and I got served up a National Bohemian, so good it made me want to poke my eye out.
You still need to put the kindling in and torch that stuff. :lol:
Actually, Natty was a mainstay in college and even an occasional dirty pleasure now. I went down your way once and asked for a Natty and I got served up a National Bohemian, so good it made me want to poke my eye out.
Burn-1 said:
Yeah it is interesting. Nobody drinks the stuff but hundreds of cases disappear from just the one store I shop at weekly. And it ain't me taking them all.
Light beer is like shock jock radio shows. I have never met anybody that admits listening to one but millions and millions of people show up on the ratings.
BrotherBart said:
Natural Light?????????????????????? What the HELL is that
! LMAOI'm bringing the kindling axe down to take care of that
Thats not even beer...sheesh!Cmon botha, if your going to drink, at least splurge and go for the good stuff.
But then again, I don't like any light beer. Just too watered down for me. And of course I'm drinking a dark beer as I type
.J/K brother, whatever your taste, I raise my beer to you
For those about to burn...............We salute you
!Corectly sizing a stove to the home interion space and insulation enviorment is the way to go.. One part of the arguement is to burn smaller loads m the other part is to burn longer and fill the fire box less? Now I believe it takes a lot of filling to keep a small fire going? Dosen't that defeat the arguement of lesser filling on the other side. then there is the sweet range to run a stove running it less than capacity is not the sweet spot. Bigger is better to an extent. It is very differcult to determine end results when comparing manufacture's specs It seems in real world conditions they fail to achieve as advertised by 25 to 33%, that is whe the extent of over sizing one should target. You want to be able to run your stove 60 to 75% of its capacity heating range to achieve optium burning drafting ect.
So how to judge what stove model to buy? You have a 1,300 area to haet in a much more moderate climat than New England the original stove the 3b will heat that area but requires re-loading every 4-5 hours I believe it's fire box size is around 1.5 cu ft
Factor on 33% increase, you should be targeting stoves with fire boxes 2.0 cuft to 2.5 cu ft. Mid point is 2.2 or 2.3 The ideal fire box size. 2.3 cu ft will produce the same BTUs used in any stove right? 2.3 produces xx amount of BTUs it is up to youto determine which stove will extract the most heat.. One running at 82% effeciency extract a lot more heat than the Epa minium mandate 63% effeciency for you math majors the stove burmning at 82% produces 125% more usable heat that the 63% one 25% more is going up that chimney poluting our enviorment . From that assumption the cleanest burning stove produces the most heat to the living space and will use 25% less wood in doung so
So how do these stoves extract 2%% more heat? Secondary burning of the smoke particulates there are two common engineering approaches to achieve this re routing the smoke into a secondary burn chamber or injecting air threw burn tubs to ignite the smoke particulates before it exits The burn chamber has two ways of burning secondary smoke one way is sending the smoke threw a Catylist the other way is creating a down braft over the hot coals and superheating the secondary chamber to 1700 degrees . The catalist is deamed by some an older technology yet they still rank amoung the cleanest burning stoves 4 major manufactures still produce cat stoves The likes of Woodstock, Blaze king and Buck stoves to name 3. Cat technology also has improved.. Leading the the secondary combustion technology is the Everburn technology so effecient and clean stoves have been tested to .7 emmissions ans 82% effeciency.
Coupled with effecient secondary burning is the use of thermatically controled secondary air. Some PE stoves use this technology to even out a long productive burn time. Harman also employs it in its oakwood model and that other major manufacturers.
This post is not manufacture support but attempting you to weigh more than brand royalty and to get the size stove that will effeciently do the task. If bigger were better we all would be driving Hummers explorers and surbans to do grocery shopping
What I am telling you to to weigh all options out and realistically strike some compromise and balance.
There no real advantage driving a Viper for food shopping.
So how to judge what stove model to buy? You have a 1,300 area to haet in a much more moderate climat than New England the original stove the 3b will heat that area but requires re-loading every 4-5 hours I believe it's fire box size is around 1.5 cu ft
Factor on 33% increase, you should be targeting stoves with fire boxes 2.0 cuft to 2.5 cu ft. Mid point is 2.2 or 2.3 The ideal fire box size. 2.3 cu ft will produce the same BTUs used in any stove right? 2.3 produces xx amount of BTUs it is up to youto determine which stove will extract the most heat.. One running at 82% effeciency extract a lot more heat than the Epa minium mandate 63% effeciency for you math majors the stove burmning at 82% produces 125% more usable heat that the 63% one 25% more is going up that chimney poluting our enviorment . From that assumption the cleanest burning stove produces the most heat to the living space and will use 25% less wood in doung so
So how do these stoves extract 2%% more heat? Secondary burning of the smoke particulates there are two common engineering approaches to achieve this re routing the smoke into a secondary burn chamber or injecting air threw burn tubs to ignite the smoke particulates before it exits The burn chamber has two ways of burning secondary smoke one way is sending the smoke threw a Catylist the other way is creating a down braft over the hot coals and superheating the secondary chamber to 1700 degrees . The catalist is deamed by some an older technology yet they still rank amoung the cleanest burning stoves 4 major manufactures still produce cat stoves The likes of Woodstock, Blaze king and Buck stoves to name 3. Cat technology also has improved.. Leading the the secondary combustion technology is the Everburn technology so effecient and clean stoves have been tested to .7 emmissions ans 82% effeciency.
Coupled with effecient secondary burning is the use of thermatically controled secondary air. Some PE stoves use this technology to even out a long productive burn time. Harman also employs it in its oakwood model and that other major manufacturers.
This post is not manufacture support but attempting you to weigh more than brand royalty and to get the size stove that will effeciently do the task. If bigger were better we all would be driving Hummers explorers and surbans to do grocery shopping
What I am telling you to to weigh all options out and realistically strike some compromise and balance.
There no real advantage driving a Viper for food shopping.
Actually, the 3CB is less than 1 cu ft. When I bought my Morso I measured it and the 3CB and the 3 was a bit smaller than the Morso which is about .95 cu ft.elkimmeg said:
whow tha's a small fire box I thought the Intrepid was small at 1.25 cu ft The intrepid realistically 6 productive hours after that there maybe some coals but not much heat
By productive to me 450 or more on the griddle top thermo
By productive to me 450 or more on the griddle top thermo
Well maybe a marketing type would come up with bigger, but what I measured was the volume that could actually be used to stuff wood into...
Something PE doesn't make a big deal about and should is that the EBT technology they incorporated in the size-giant Summit models was an effort to make that big firebox hold a fire as long as their flagship models, the Super series. People on this forum justifiably rave about the Summit, but the stars of PE's show are the Super Series models.
From what I've read here, this house is born for a Super 27, Spectum, Classic or Fusion (all have the same firebox). I burn a Spectrum, and always have hot coals 10-12 hours later, even though I'm burning NW fuelwood species (if I wanted to burn oak, I'd have to sacrifice my dining room table).
When you have a 900 sq.ft. room in a 1500 sq.ft. house, it is important to consider that some of the heated air will disperse into the rest of the house, even though it isn't your intention to heat those areas: I think the Vista firebox would fall short of the heating goal here for that reason. The Super Series models are rated to heat 1800+ sq.ft., and hundreds of our customers will testify that they do just that. They're also comfortable in homes as small as 800 sq.ft., so in milder weather you won't have to suffer with a too-large stove.
From what I've read here, this house is born for a Super 27, Spectum, Classic or Fusion (all have the same firebox). I burn a Spectrum, and always have hot coals 10-12 hours later, even though I'm burning NW fuelwood species (if I wanted to burn oak, I'd have to sacrifice my dining room table).
When you have a 900 sq.ft. room in a 1500 sq.ft. house, it is important to consider that some of the heated air will disperse into the rest of the house, even though it isn't your intention to heat those areas: I think the Vista firebox would fall short of the heating goal here for that reason. The Super Series models are rated to heat 1800+ sq.ft., and hundreds of our customers will testify that they do just that. They're also comfortable in homes as small as 800 sq.ft., so in milder weather you won't have to suffer with a too-large stove.
![[Hearth.com] PE Vista Classic or Jotul F 3 CB](/talk/data/attachments/2/2443-d3eb8948d88186d08efd4358d5b8487b.jpg?hash=u7Mk529ZVD)
Roo Is that your setup, with the curtains right behind the stove and the front loading door and p hearth pad encased with combustiable wood?
Stove looks nice but major code violations with that setup Damn is that a dangereous setup No clue to distances to combustiables.
To me that picture does more damage to PE image than the looks. Loading door clearance ?
Are you trying to submit a darwin canidate we had enough of them this week already
Stove looks nice but major code violations with that setup Damn is that a dangereous setup No clue to distances to combustiables.
To me that picture does more damage to PE image than the looks. Loading door clearance ?
Are you trying to submit a darwin canidate we had enough of them this week already
{NOTE: Its a display model, we need not to discuss the install}
Roo sorry I missed the small lettering. disclaimer.
However not the best way to present a product, with a roaring fire, without any regard to proper installation and clearances to combustiables.
Maybe manufacture need a darwin award I nominate PE for that picture
Roo sorry I missed the small lettering. disclaimer.
However not the best way to present a product, with a roaring fire, without any regard to proper installation and clearances to combustiables.
Maybe manufacture need a darwin award I nominate PE for that picture
elkimmeg said:
PE would probably tell you not to worry, that the fire was from Photoshop, but I agree it must make life harder for you if a homeowner objects to failing an inspection on the grounds that "I installed it just like the picture in the brochure"....
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