PE Summit EBT

[oldspark]

I currently have the ebt off my summitt for repair, would you like to see a photo of the bottom of stove where the boost air enters the front of the stove through a 1/2 hole into the primary air supply? And the open slot for the secondary air. Tim

Hell ya, makes me wonder if the T5 has the hole and nothing else.

 

[theonlyzarathu]

I currently have the ebt off my summitt for repair, would you like to see a photo of the bottom of stove where the boost air enters the front of the stove through a 1/2 hole into the primary air supply? And the open slot for the secondary air. Tim

Of course the valve for the secondary air on a summit and others with EBT is open all the time. But inside the EBT chamber(and this chamber is closed and you can't see it unless you dissemble it) , there is a thermostatically controlled valve. This is the valve that takes the full available air and "decides" when to supply it to the secondary fire box baffle and when to not supply it. Stoves without EBT technology have their secondary air to the firebox at the same input all the time. There are only three or stoves on the whole market with this variable secondary input to the fire box, because the technology is patented. What's more its not needed on stoves with a firebox less than about 2.7 cu ft. And yes, in regards to the technology of EBT, I do know how it works and why it works. I researched it, talked to the technicians who designed it at PE, talked to others, and looked at detailed diagrams of the stove and its operation and what makes stoves with EBT different from stoves without it.

Its not rocket science, but there are differences, mostly when the WHOLE firebox temperature is below the temperature that ignites the gases. Its a waste of fuel if you are giving the stove more oxygen than it needs. Providing full secondary air all the time in a stove with a big firebox will make it run through its 3 cu ft of wood pretty damn quickly. Of course if you have an unlimited wood supply, or you need the full 95,000 BTU all the time, then EBT technology won't mean much to you. EBT technology is only for people who want to run it at lower levels and get an efficient burn. It looks like most people here run their stoves flat out all the time.

 

[oldspark]

Zarathu-LOOK at your stove under the ash pan, the hole is wide open to the secondaries, what is it you do not understand about that? The EBT dumps air into the primary chamber as stated on the chimney sweep site. Not sure what else I can tell you but one thing I agree with you on is it is not rocket science. I'm begging ya here look at your stove, later I will take a picture if you need it.

 

[tim1]

I respectfully disagree with you. No valve on secondary air! Just a open slot 3/8 by 3 inches long on bottom back of stove. Feed top baffle all the time. Nothing to do with ebt! The flapper plate that closes off the ebt boost has a 1/8 hole in it. The plate is not open all the time, only during temp rise to warmed up stove, then closes,yes, closes until fire dies down and cools the thermal spring, then opens again for boost air to fan the coals one last time as fire go out and the plate fully closes. I have this on my bench with my heat gun, and is quite simple and effective. Need a photo? Tim

 

[oldspark]

Zarathu- this is from a post a while back, I can not do any thing else for ya except take a picture and not sure yu will believe that.
"the main air goes in at the bottom front.its controlled by air lever that you control.that air goes up then down over the window (air wash).
the secondaries go in from the bottom back of the box,underneath.it isnt controlled.
the boost manifold is the air that goes in through the EBT at the front bottom of the box then through those holes inside bottom front of the box."

 

[tim1]

I am charging my camera, in the mean time, here is some photos of my baffle. It is a 2001 stove and had no top insulation on it. Plus, the hollow baffle had collapsed shut a bit, so I cut a slot on top ans pushed back to original and welded back slot. Added insulation. Tim

 

[tim1]

I ran a wire thru the secondary tube for clarity. I could not get the wire thru the primary ebt circuit as it makes a 90 I think. Shown is the ebt at cold and hot position. Tim

 

[tim1]

Forgot one.

 

[oldspark]

Tim1-thanks for the pictures, looks like you have quite the project going on there, is that your shop at your house.

 

[tim1]

Yes it is, 30x36 with 16 foot eves. Overhead hoist on trolley system, in ground rotary 9k car lift, and fully insulated with 100 btu oil furnace with a Glacier Bay wood stove. Tim

 

[oldspark]

Well that's cool, do yu make your living out of that shop.

 

[tim1]

No, I am retired and just maintain my own stuff. Tim

 

[Hogwildz]

Looks like they changed the baffle very slightly from 2001 to 2006. Mine does not have the stud on the back rear end. And the insulation heat shield wraps down both sides and is cut square to the back.
The shield is held on by two tabs that bend over in each direction on a single main tab off the top that the insulation & the shield have slots that slide over this tab.
Other than that, same baffle.
Thanks for the photos. Been there, done that.(took the EBT out to find thew flapper was not even positioned correctly, nor hooked up).
Hopefully, the pother fella gets a clue now. Not sure who he talked to, but thinking someone there is full of shat.
Anyways, good shots Tim. Enjoy the Summit!

 

[tim1]

I welded a stainless bolt there to keep the plate intact. Bought enough insulation to do the baffle. My ebt is servicable now also, also made a slide plug to cut off the secondary air in a emergency, in a perfect world, will not need it. When the stand is done, will post a photo. Legs are 22 inches. Tim

 

[theonlyzarathu]

Zarathu- this is from a post a while back, I can not do any thing else for ya except take a picture and not sure yu will believe that.
"the main air goes in at the bottom front.its controlled by air lever that you control.that air goes up then down over the window (air wash).
the secondaries go in from the bottom back of the box,underneath.it isnt controlled.
the boost manifold is the air that goes in through the EBT at the front bottom of the box then through those holes inside bottom front of the box."

I stand Corrected! The boost air from the EBT goes into primary air in the fire box. Is there any air input into the fire box other than the primary air lever?

 

[BrotherBart]

I bet the EBT works a treat if you don't have a bed of ashes in the stove insulating it. Kinda like when you are getting it EPA certified. Wink. Wink.

 

[tim1]

The ebt air goes into the front somewhere, but I could not get my wire through there. I does not go directly into primary box where the big hole is, it goes up a tube and bends. The lever is the only inlet. Tim

 

[GeneralBill]

I bet the EBT works a treat if you don't have a bed of ashes in the stove insulating it. Kinda like when you are getting it EPA certified. Wink. Wink.

Exactly. I cannot see the EBT thermal sense work reliably when there not only is a great variation in ash depth, but also local conditions around the EBT that vary.
In other words, the EBT is designed to regulate air based on combustible mix and heat conditions (i.e. more air to burn initial wood outgassing). But it does this based on local (to the EBT) heat sensing, which is a secondary measure of combustion box heat, which is itself a secondary measure of combustible mix.

Maybe it helps, I'm just not sure.

 

[GeneralBill]

Forgot one.

I meant to add: Excellent set of internal pictures Tim. They clarified some of this discussion.

 

[madison]

Forgot one.

I meant to add: Excellent set of internal pictures Tim. They clarified some of this discussion.

+1, thanks Bill for info learned

 

[iceman]

Let's call PE to get truth .... Does it work or not? Wonder how hot it gets under there when stove is going...?
It's its insulated from the heat that means its always open then?

 

[begreen]

No, it is not always open, it's normally closed. I posted a video on its operation including temp readings a while back.

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[oldspark]

Let's call PE to get truth .... Does it work or not? Wonder how hot it gets under there when stove is going...?
It's its insulated from the heat that means its always open then?

You cant handle the truth :cheese:, I dont think it works like it is supposed to, I think I have seen my open up once, like I said before-voo doo and doo doo.

 

[begreen]

How often have you laid on your back, and watched this through a full burn cycle? I set up a mirror to do this and found it worked pretty much as advertised with a full reloading of the stove. But our stove temps regularly get above 600F with a full reload. It usually doesn't open on a cold firing of the stove. The body of the stove needs to warm up first. I'd do a video with it in place, but we are still not burning 24/7, it has been too mild for full overnight burns. And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to have the camera that close to the stove front for a long time.

 

[oldspark]

How often have you laid on your back, and watched this through a full burn cycle? I set up a mirror to do this and found it worked pretty much as advertised with a full reloading of the stove. But our stove temps regularly get above 600F with a full reload. It usually doesn't open on a cold firing of the stove. The body of the stove needs to warm up first. I'd do a video with it in place, but we are still not burning 24/7, it has been too mild for full overnight burns. And I'm not sure it would be a good idea to have the camera that close to the stove front for a long time.

I have looked at it more than I like to admit to, the mirror is a good idea, can you tell a difference in the stove when it opens, I read a post once where the guy claimed the stove overfired when it opened up because it was not working correctly.