PE Alderlea T5 (continued, first full season, page3.)

[begreen]

Resist the urge to tinker with the stove. Tinker with the tinkerer instead. 600-700º is where the stove likes to cruise. Next fire try to turning down the air sooner, use thicker splits, packed tighter. But leave the stove air supply alone. If you really want it to run cooler start a smaller fire and every few hours drop on a couple splits. You don't have enough fires left this season to learn how to run the stove well. It is quite different from the Keystone. Give it time and relearn the burn.

 

[Woody Stover]

I didn't end up doing any tweaks this time but I wanted to have a couple in reserve in case I needed 'em. I didn't particularly care for the stove running 650+ last night when I wanted to leave, and the air was already cut all the way. Tonight, I only loaded five medium-small splits so there would be less wood gassing. It also isn't as cold out yet tonight, and the wind is down, so the chimney didn't seem to be pulling as hard. Should still be enough heat to keep her furnace off.
Tonight I had the air open around 1/4, STT was a little over 400, flue magnetic was maybe 270. Plume wasn't quite clean, so before I left it in her hands, I opened the air just a smidgen more, fire picked up slightly, both meters started to creep up slightly, and the plume seemed to be cleaner. She was going to be up for another half-hour, and make an adjustment down if it seemed to be taking off, but I doubt it with that load, and draft the conditions.
That's why I asked how low you guys are able to run cleanly (when you have a full load in the stove.) It would be nice to have some control over the stove and be able to burn a load faster or slower. Is that going to be my extent of control, 600-700 when fully loaded, and eating through that load at a pretty good clip from what I saw, or else throwing on a few splits every so often?
I thought I read you saying that you could run at 400, with flue in the lower 300s probe reading. I have the surface meter at 13" and when I had the full load yesterday churning away with the stove at 650 and flue surface in the low 400s, I couldn't help but think I was blowing a lot of heat out of the stack. And that was at 40* out. What happens when it drops to zero? Methinks I may be needing more control at some point.
I'll definitely make her more big splits as I'm setting her up for next season. I've already .got about half her wood, and I left a lot in rounds.
You're right, learning for me is about over until next fall, if weather is normal from here on out. And most here that might comment have gone on summer vacation...luckily for me, you and Hog are diehards.
I'll see about getting that video up tomorrow, and see if you think it's burning harder than what you are calling "lazy flames."
Here's the junior load I burned this evening, so my shorts would stay clean.

 

[Hogwildz]

Larger splits for longer, slower burns. Less fuel for less needed heat. If you fill her, she will eat, but if you pack it tight, it will last a long time. Smaller splits with more air space left between them will burn hot. Packem tight. They do like to cruise between 600 and 700. Once the nasties burn off, it will stabilize and cruise, then slowly lower in temps as the load burns down. Shoulder season is a fire or two a day, just put 4 mediums in and let her be. If you can, always turn the air as low as you can, many of us go all the way low. You can cut it back sooner to keep the temps down and cruise lower also. I wouldn't leave it 1/4 open if you don't need it.

 

[Highbeam]

I can see how the lack of control would be upsetting when coming from a good cat stove. This is the trade off when running without a cat. You won’t have to replace a cat every few years and that flame show sure is pretty.

Just remember pulse and glide. The pulse can be intense but only lasts a few hours followed by a relatively long glide.

Also, once you’ve shut the air to zero you can’t do anything else but let the fuel burn as it wants. So relax. With experience you will be more comfortable knowing that the stove won’t get too hot, it has a sort of built in rev limiter in that it was designed and tested to not melt down. Like all modern stoves, keep your gaskets tight and draft within specs.

 

[begreen]

I can see how the lack of control would be upsetting when coming from a good cat stove. This is the trade off when running without a cat. You won’t have to replace a cat every few years and that flame show sure is pretty.

Just remember pulse and glide. The pulse can be intense but only lasts a few hours followed by a relatively long glide.

Also, once you’ve shut the air to zero you can’t do anything else but let the fuel burn as it wants. So relax. With experience you will be more comfortable knowing that the stove won’t get too hot, it has a sort of built in rev limiter in that it was designed and tested to not melt down. Like all modern stoves, keep your gaskets tight and draft within specs.

Exactly right. If you want less heat, do a smaller pulse. The advantage of cast-iron clad stoves like the Alderlea is that the intense heat is buffered, similar to a soapstone stove. That helps keep a more even temp in the room and house. It continues to release this heat after the fire has died down.

 

[webby3650]

I’ve always enjoyed having both a cat and non cat. I can get my fill of the big heat fire show, but have a cat stove chugging away in the main part of the house. They both have their advantages, but I really appreciate the almost instant turn down response of a cat stove.

 

[Highbeam]

I have both types (cat and noncat) and have had both types on my current hearth. They are different for sure but both are fully capable of doing the job. I also think the PE, with some sort of automated secondary air control and a stainless baffle, was always one of the best noncat options for a full time heater.

Some larger splits, less splits, and earlier turn down might help slow her down woody.

And like bg said, thermal mass is quite helpful in absorbing some of the peak and smoothing our the curve. Lots of steel, cast, or even (ugh) soapstone can only help.

 

[webby3650]

I have both types (cat and noncat) and have had both types on my current hearth. They are different for sure but both are fully capable of doing the job. I also think the PE, with some sort of automated secondary air control and a stainless baffle, was always one of the best noncat options for a full time heater.

Some larger splits, less splits, and earlier turn down might help slow her down woody.

While I’ve never ran a PE, I have been impressed every time I’ve broke one down to clean it.

 

[Woody5506]

I find the T5 pretty dang easy to operate, but what do I have to compare to? well, not much other than a couple smoke dragons I've been around. Anyway, that's a pretty full load you packed there and typical of what I'd do for a dead of winter overnight burn. Usually I'll load it like that at least an hour before bed, let it get up to speed while I watch tv or whatever, cutting the air down as needed, and before I head up just shut it all the way down. Usually I'm reloading the next morning to a stove top temp of around 250-300. Often, my stove top thermometer (same as yours) is in the red (700+) before I shut down for the night but flue temps in the probe's optimal zone. Seems like a lot but they don't mind being run hot and in my case it works out well for where I need all the heat. It took me kind of a while to get comfortable burning full loads like that and shutting down for the night.


Nice looking enamel on there too, kinda makes me wish I got that. Too bad about the chips, looks like someone was careless with a forklift.

 

[Woody Stover]

600-700º is where the stove likes to cruise. Next fire try to turning down the air sooner, use thicker splits, packed tighter.

Some larger splits, less splits, and earlier turn down might help slow her down woody.

Larger splits for longer, slower burns...If you fill her, she will eat, but if you pack it tight, it will last a long time...They do like to cruise between 600 and 700. Once the nasties burn off, it will stabilize and cruise, then slowly lower in temps as the load burns down...always turn the air as low as you can, many of us go all the way low. You can cut it back sooner to keep the temps down and cruise lower also. I wouldn't leave it 1/4 open if you don't need it.

I can see how the lack of control would be upsetting when coming from a good cat stove...The pulse can be intense but only lasts a few hours followed by a relatively long glide...once you’ve shut the air to zero you can’t do anything else but let the fuel burn as it wants. So relax. With experience you will be more comfortable knowing that the stove won’t get too hot, it has a sort of built in rev limiter in that it was designed and tested to not melt down.

That's one thing I didn't know yet, that it would start to "plane off" above 650; When it passed 650 I wondered "Yikes, will I be zooming past 700 here in a few minutes??" I didn't want that.
With the load I had in there, it eventually reduced to a big load of coals, and there was still a decent amount the next morning. I told her she could just open up the air a bit if needed, and ride that coal heat for a long time.
Yep, I'll be making big splits and rounds for her to load. Although the big load looks in the pic like it has a lot of air space between splits, I tried to make it as tight as I could. There were several small splits in the load though, so not as tight as it would be with fewer but bigger splits.
I only had the air 1/4 open on that small, four-split load...

Here's the Hog gasket vs the new OEM style. I have been making new style with the ceramic blanket, just need to find a sturdier blanket material. The home made lasts 5+ years that I had it in use.

When I took the baffle out, there was just a rectangular gasket to seal the air channel to the baffle, no "ears" on the gasket. I'm wondering if I can just get some wide interam gasket and cut several gaskets out of it. Also, with the side baffle insulation back in place, and the stove breathing correctly, there was a little secondary action shooting out of the gap in the back, small flame all the way across.

I also think the PE, with some sort of automated secondary air control and a stainless baffle, was always one of the best noncat options for a full time heater.

I could tell that with fire, or just coals, this stove is dealing quite a bit more heat than the little Dutchwest was. That stove was still leaky though, even after I tried to tighten it up with cement, so some heat was wasted up the flue, I'm sure. Looking forward to not having leaky cement seams to repair...

While I’ve never ran a PE, I have been impressed every time I’ve broke one down to clean it.

This is the old version of the T5, where the secondary air is linked to the primary with a steel rod. I went with the proven long burn, but don't know if I would be better off with the new version with the "automated" EBT2. Seems like on the new one, maybe you could run the primary lower, but the secondary would open up to clean up the burn. Their description of the EBT2 says it responds to draft, but I don't really understand how that would work...
Yeah, webby, when I saw the exploded parts diagram, I couldn't believe how simple it was. Plus 304 stainless baffle and brick/baffle rails. Baffle is simple to remove, albeit a bit heavy. I like the idea of the "floating firebox" construction as well.
I'd still like to hear how low other users are able to burn while still keeping the plume clean. If we have to cruise it up around 600 to be clean, so be it.

 

[mar13]

This is the old version of the T5, where the secondary air is linked to the primary with a steel rod. I went with the proven long burn, but don't know if I would be better off with the new version with the "automated" EBT2. Seems like on the new one, maybe you could run the primary lower, but the secondary would open up to clean up the burn. Their description of the EBT2 says it responds to draft, but I don't really understand how that would work...

I am also interested in hearing from people who have intimate knowledge and explanation of the EBT2 and its secondary air mechanics, beyond that which is described in Chimneysweeponline.com.

 

[begreen]

I am also interested in hearing from people who have intimate knowledge and explanation of the EBT2 and its secondary air mechanics, beyond that which is described in Chimneysweeponline.com.

Tom's detailed description of the EBT operation is about the most comprehensive you will find. There are few people that know PE stoves better than him. What is still unclear?

 

[mar13]

Tom's detailed description of the EBT operation is about the most comprehensive you will find. There are few people that know PE stoves better than him. What is still unclear?

I think I got 95% of it down, and yes, he does a great job. (A previous thread he stated that he spent like 20 hours trying to get that webpage down.)

Here's what I still wonder: Is there a fixed amount of air that is always allowed into the secondary? If so, how does that enter? Through a small hole that in the flap like I think I see in the old 2009 YouTube video (by you?) about the EBT1 (

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), or through another path? Also, would a set up with a strong draft leave the flap always open -and would that be good or bad?

Here's something I just found (

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) that with combined with Chimneysweeponline.com helps me more. (There is no pin hole on this one.) I think I just need to educate myself more about draft and "breaking too strong of a draft".

I'm digressing off the original post, so feel free to delete this and my just previous post if you think they are too off topic or too much in the weeds.

 

[begreen]

The EBT1 was a completely different design and approach than the EBT2. There are two small holes that still allows a small amount of air to the secondary on the EBT2 if the barometric valve is closed. In the video he's moving it around too much to see, but they are visible in the shot on the PE website.
https://www.pacificenergy.net/technologies/wood/ebt2/

 

[mar13]

The EBT1 was a completely different design and approach than the EBT2. There are two small holes that still allows a small amount of air to the secondary on the EBT2 if the barometric valve is closed. In the video he's moving it around too much to see, but they are visible in the shot on the PE website.
https://www.pacificenergy.net/technologies/wood/ebt2/

Thanks! I had never noticed those two holes even though seeing that image many times before. In the video, I can now notice there are 4 permanent holes - 2 on each side. Now I feel like I understand the system.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

If you can keep the top of the firebox hot, you can cut down the air as soon as the secondaries kick in. The stove top can be quite cool with a secondary burn going on.

 

[begreen]

On a cold start the stove top temp will lag far behind the firebox temp until the mass of steel warms up. This is why the flue temp and visual cues are important for determining when to start turning down the air.

 

[Woody Stover]

Tom's detailed description of the EBT operation is about the most comprehensive you will find. There are few people that know PE stoves better than him. What is still unclear?

So what he calls the "Series B, 2013" is what PE calls EBT2?

I'm digressing off the original post, so feel free to delete this and my just previous post if you think they are too off topic or too much in the weeds.

I'm also interested in these, and how they relate to the linked system in the T5..

On a cold start the stove top temp will lag far behind the firebox temp until the mass of steel warms up. This is why the flue temp and visual cues are important for determining when to start turning down the air.

Seems like the EBT2 is tracking flue temp/draft more closely than the earlier version, maybe that's part of the reason why the LE burns cleaner...reacts more quickly to what the fire is doing. Even though it hasn't proven itself in the Super box, I don't expect that burn times will be affected, unless they also modified the primary to let more air in.
Tom said that people that have burned the Super LE like it, and he was advising potential buyers to wait for the Alderlea LE. It will be interesting to get feedback here from users. But Tom is probably the only one who can make a fair head-to-head comparison.

 

[Woody Stover]

I guess "Series B" is the stove model...hers is a T5 "Series D."

 

[begreen]

I guess "Series B" is the stove model...hers is a T5 "Series D."

That applies to the Summit series firebox.

 

[mar13]

I guess "Series B" is the stove model...hers is a T5 "Series D."

Series B is the last preEPA2020 version of the Summit Series as @begreen said. Series D is the last pre EPA2020 version of the Super Series which includes the T5.

Well, I went to my dealer today and found out that the distribution center was still trying to clear out 5 of its series D T5 classics (enamel), so I had no choice and for better or worse I'll be getting a Series D rather than an LE. (I have to admit, though, I did think the EBT2 system was clever + cleaner and was hoping for one, if all other things were equal.)

I did contact a dealer in Canada who had been running a Super 27 LE in the shop since last fall. No problems and runs very similar to the older version even with a tall chimney. And no complaints from customers of a couple dozen LEs out in the field. This testimony matches that of the well known Washington dealer. I guess you can't go wrong either way, although soon people won't have a choice - if they ever did.

 

[begreen]

Just to make it more interesting there is also the Summit Insert C.

 

[Woody Stover]

Just to make it more interesting there is also the Summit Insert C.

I see.

 

[Woody Stover]

And then there's Step D-1 of Design D.

 

[heavy hammer]

Nice looking stove, as others have said bigger pieces and turning the air down faster will help with slowing it down but temps of 700 are not uncommon. I see stove temps like that on my insert often I was told that is normal. Smaller loads will slow it down as well small quicker fires. If you load it up it will be a heat machine. I like how clean the glass stays as well.