OSBURN 2200 i , Carbon Monoxide issues

[edmtgs]

Hello All,


I have a Osburn 2200i that I was burning all night , had hot embers in the morning and started a new fire , 15 minutes later the CO detector goes off show 296 ppmm !!and I narrowed it down to the blower from my insert bring gases in to the home. CO detector is down stairs and it never showed any type of CO reading until now, where should I look for my issue? I just got the stove 2 months ago.

Tks

 

[Roospike]

Just so we are clear , The CO detector is down stairs.............Where is the stove ? downstairs also? Any other gas or other units down stairs ?

 

[edmtgs]

CO Detector is downstairs, stove downstairs, and gas furnace and water heater also.

Right now furnace and water heater running and CO reading 0.( so definitely not the issue)

When The alarm went off yesterday I opened all the windows and shut off the blower on stove. Reading dropped , the moment I put the blower on the reading spiked again to high 200's.

 

[Roospike]

I wonder if when you opened up the wood stove it started sucking large amounts of air up the flue and drew in air from one of the other gas unit flue pipes .............That would do it if that is what happened.

 

[edmtgs]

Stove was closed when the alarm went off , burning a small hot fire. You can smell the air circulating through the stove was not right. There are 4 air tubes in the firebox that I feel is the culprit. I was wonder if anyone experienced the same issue.

 

[elkimmeg]

Roo just what I was thinking too many fuel burning appliances and not enough combustion air. Probably all located in close proximity of one another.
It is such a negative pressure situation, the stove blower is probably backdrafting the stove everytime the door is open. Actually all appliances are probably backdrafting one another but the stove blower when the door opened was the stronger force and sucked the open door exhaust setting off the co alarms..

One wonders why there are codes governing combustion air vollumes and proximity? I think it is good that the alarm fired it warning shot a wake up call that potential dangers exist Ccould be due to weather wind direction temperature inversion low pressuer things finally aligned and exposed the danger. But there are solutions,direct outside air feeds to your burner would be the first place to start, Is there a cloth dryer also in that basement is it electric or gas?

Lets figure out what is going on can you provide the height width and length of the area where the appliances are located? then read the tag on the furnace and hot water heater and what is their BTU capacities what is the BTU capacity of the wood stove? and is there a dryer there
I can figure the air vollume then the requirements and go from there.

This is not a negative reply but an attempt so that your situation gets corrected and no one gets hurt

 

[laynes69]

If there are tubes running through the stove, how old is the stove? And whats the condition of those tubes. I've heard stories of tubes like that burning out over time, and if so when that blower runs it will direct the firebox air into the room. Then again if this was so I would say there would be some smoke. I would check those tubes, and also check for the right amount of air. Thats alot to be drawing from a basement.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

could be a burn through like layne suggested , but, some co could possibly have been leaking out and been detected before the blower was switched on. i would check that as well, however elks point makes sense too, suggest getting him the measurements and lets see what turns up. measurements between stove and any "cold air returns" for the furnace may also have bearing as well, if the return is close and the furnace kicks on it can overpower a chimneys draw especially if the flue was a little cool from end of fire and not fully warmed back up, even more so in a basement which is going to be below zero pressure line in the home.

 

[edmtgs]

The Stove is 2 months old, I took off the face plate and realized the air tubes do not circulate the air for the blower, the air gets circulated from a plenum that goes from the bottom of the fire box( intake ) to the top of the fire box( output) , I think I found the culprit, the connection from the ss liner is sitting at an angle on top of the stove.

I paid for someone to install this and this is what they did!( see attachement) My fault also I should have inspected their work 100 %, but what if I did not have a CO detector, this guy could have killed my family for such a bad job.

From this photo I believe I need a 30 degree contector and for the connection to be sealed with hi temp silicone.

 

[MrGriz]

That could be your problem, but do not seal that connection with high temp silicone, it will not stand up to that heat. I sealed that point on mine and used furnace cement. Made a very good seal and will not burn at the temps you will find there.

I just took another look at the picture. It doesn't look like the screws even penetrated the pipe. This should be secured by three screws. I also see a lot of debris on top of the insert. Do you have a blockoff plate installed? If not, you really should install one for safety and code reasons. Is the flue shared by anything along with the insert? Does the chimney have just one flue? Without a blockoff plate, the chimney could be back drafting exhaust from another appliance.

Just a couple of observations, I'm sure the experts will be along to help, but some more information might be helpful.

 

[Roospike]

************** :bug: ***************

Holy chit! Well there's a professional job for ya. Glad you found that.

 

[edmtgs]

This chimey is not sharing anything else, there is a seperate chimney next to it for the water heater and gas furnace. Its built right next to this one, so close the share a nice rectangular chimney cap. There is a plate installed on top but on the bottom there is not plate to seal off. I will enclose some more photos.

 

[wingnut]

Who did that?? If you look at your connection were the flex is attached to the coupler that is how it should look attached to the stove. All of the joints should be on the outside (if that makes any sense) What I mean is that the connection on the stove should be over the top of the lip on the stove. My liner came with the piece that goes over that lip and into the flex. When you picture the smoke going up the stack it should not meet any seem that will let it go out.

 

[Roospike]

Steel screw , drywall screw , no screw

 

[edmtgs]

HERE ARE MORE PICS, Whats Wierd Is I have been burning the stove for 2.5 months and never had a CO reading above 0 until recent. The company that installed it is a dealer for I believe for Lennox and specializes in inserts and stoves. I am very upset that he did such a Sh-- job. I wonder how many people he installed for with no concern for safety

 

[GVA]

This chimey is not sharing anything else, there is a seperate chimney next to it for the water heater and gas furnace. Its built right next to this one, so close the share a nice rectangular chimney cap. There is a plate installed on top but on the bottom there is not plate to seal off. I will enclose some more photos.

One thing here......Is that a cement backer board screw in the middle there?
And Whaddaya mean they share the same chimney cap?
They should be at different heights........ if the flues share the same chimney.
Do me a favor just check the draft hoods on the furnace and hot water heater and check to see if when you strike a match the flame goes into the hood and doesn't stay on the outside. Your CO could be caused by several things all working together..... and against each other...

 

[wingnut]

The coupler that came with my liner is SS and has four S.S. straps spot welded to the side of it. I put it over the lip on the stove and then zip screwed the straps down into the sheet metal liner that goes around the stove. This does not hurt a thing, and holds it all in place when you run a brush down the pipe. Do Not rely on stove cement to do that for you. Good Luck.

 

[edmtgs]

DOes anyone out there have connection photos so I can show this guy when he gets here on Thursday, I dont even want him here but I'll give him a chance to make it right, then file a complaint.

 

[edmtgs]

theres is two chimneys built right next to each other, there one that is exhausting the water heater and furnace and the other for the fireplace, I will climb the roof and take a photo off it tomorrow, Most homes around here have the same kind of set up. It almost looks like one chimey but when you look closer, the brick work on one is older. any way they come to the same height and have one chimney cap.

 

[MrGriz]

GVA made a great point. If the three share the same chimney cap, that could be part of the problem. If they are not at different hiehgts, one could be drawing exhaust from another. I'm not sure what the exact requirements are, but I would check into it if I were you, maybe Elk can chime in.

There should be a blockoff plate at the point where the liner passes through what used to be your damper. This plate should be sealed with furnace cement around the liner and either furnace cement or RTV around the perimeter.

That certainly does not look like a professional job to me. Do some reading in the posts and the wiki, get a good idea of the way it should be done and then talk to the installer.

 

[Roospike]

DOes anyone out there have connection photos so I can show this guy when he gets here on Thursday, I dont even want him here but I'll give him a chance to make it right, then file a complaint.

Well , you at least have photos now of "what not to do." :grrr:

I have a freestanding stove so i can't help but I'm sure there are pic's in the picture perfect forum of correct insert installs.

Some one might come along with pic's too .

ALSO: Tell the installer NOT to use drywall screws to connect your pipe.

 

[MrGriz]

Maybe that's the problem, maybe the installer is really a drywaller who is between jobs....

Seriously, I don't remember if there are any good pictures of the connector on my installation, but I did post a lot of pics. I think the thread was called 'it's finally in take a look', or something close to that. You should be able to search and locate it.

The connector is in the correct direction. It seems backwards, but everything I have been told is that stove pipe is all installed with the male (crimped) end pointing down or toward the appliance. I know that it seems this overlaps the joint in the wrong direction and I'm sure someone can explain the why, but that's what I've been told many times.

In fact, I've been told that it is not necessary to seal this joint if the connector is aligned and inserted properly. I used furnace cement on mine just as an added precaution.

Good luck, ask questions as they come up.

edit
You could also google to find the ss liner connector and installation instructions.

 

[wingnut]

I don't know if you can see in this picture of what I was talking about, but this is how I did mine. I have no problems with the way it is working. Like someone else said I think you might have a couple different problems? But either way the stove should not look like that. Hope this helps.

 

[GVA]

GVA made a great point. If the three share the same chimney cap, that could be part of the problem. If they are not at different hiehgts, one could be drawing exhaust from another. I'm not sure what the exact requirements are, but I would check into it if I were you, maybe Elk can chime in.

There should be a blockoff plate at the point where the liner passes through what used to be your damper. This plate should be sealed with furnace cement around the liner and either furnace cement or RTV around the perimeter.

That certainly does not look like a professional job to me. Do some reading in the posts and the wiki, get a good idea of the way it should be done and then talk to the installer.

It was not really my point.... It was just another way of explaining what Spike and Elk were talking about.
If you have a great draft running with the insert and you don't have enough Fresh air supply it's gonna use that other flue supplying your water heater as a intake, when the flues are that close It is more likley to pull in those gases.

And It was a drywall screw...................NICE................... :-/

 

[elkimmeg]

I call jobs like this, job security for me . Your local inspector pass this crap? guess what get a premit and have public record of a failed installation before you deal with the people you bought the stove from and scheduled the installation. Also get the specs on that liner read them and see if insulation was required . You are so lucky you have not had a serious incident thank god the Co detectors worked there is code governing how the ven should be attached correctly done ther should be no sign of the crimping. The installer also should know code reqarding combustion air and proximity of other fuel fired appliances. That liner requires the manufacturer specked termination cap. not tucked under a common cap that dangerous and bogus.
No one should use a common flue cap 9" separating distance is required.

I can tell you if I was the inspecor there I would be reading the riot act to the retailer and the installer.

Even if they correct that crap installation ,you still have a combustion air defeciency and run the risk of ephixiating your familly.

This make me mad, this type of installation .. This is a black eye to all the pros. People here, think I make this type of stuff up, unfortunately this type of installation happens everyday

You know in situations like this , the inspector can be your Ace in the hole..

Forum members do you believe he paid for this crap install drywall screw screws that do not penetrate the pipe? but bend it creating a separation?

I'm shaking my head its almost funny if the consequenses were not so dangerous!