No Draft

[1kzwoman]

Try building your fire with shamefully small splits (dry) then add larger as (if) you get a fire to burn

 

[Grisu]

Grisu, at that point I believe there was a 10" 2"x4", 2 10" 1"x 3"s and a 4" maple split. The softwood was dry. The maple was in front of my dehumidifier for five days. The draft was wide open. There was smoke coming out of the chimney. The door could be cracked with no smoke spillage. But even opening very slowly from there would allow a lot of smoke to escape. Out of curiosity could it be the cap?

5 days in front of the humidifier won't help much for the maple but dry lumber should not be smoking after a 2 hour burn with the air wide open. I recommend getting a moisture meter to test the wood. Split your pieces in half (lengthwise) and push the pins in the freshly exposed surface. The lumber should read in the low teens while dry firewood should be below 20%.

 

[bholler]

Sounds like negative pressure to me does opening a basment window help or not? do you have a whole house fan of any other exhaust from the house? That or its wet wood

 

[Cockshutt]

Well there's no argument from this guy. I appreciate the input. I believe it's a combination of bad draft wet wood ambient temps and my unfamiliarity with these new stoves. I've got my installer coming out tomorrow. I've just found some two year old hardwood. And I'll wait for the mercury to drop some. Thanks again.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Have your professional installer break out his Draft meter. It will tell you all you need to know about your chimney. The style of cap you have may play a big part of it also. I would recommend insulating the liner from roofline up to top if your draft is poor. and recheck draft.
Draft should be known at all times when doing an install!
Post some pics of the cap area of your chimney and a few views from the exterior.
So many great people here and your problem will be solved.

My gut says that the liner may not be terminated properly at the top exterior!

 

[bholler]

Draft is almost never checked for a wood stove testing draft for a wood stove is difficult because it requires a full temp fire so it takes quite a while to get a good reading. And honestly that will not necessarily tell you much. We know there is not enough draft the question is why my bet would be negative pressure in the house combined with little temperature differential

 

[begreen]

Why is this not important? Many stove manufacturers specifically list the acceptable range of draft for their stoves. Draft testing with a magnahelic is not that hard and done by dealers reasonably frequently. From a safety standpoint for stoves with marginal draft this seems pretty important, especially if the stove is backpuffing frequently.

Here's a few reasons why to check the draft:
(broken link removed)

 

[bholler]

Figuring out why the stove is not drawing is way more important than a constantly changing number that is only going to tell us what we already know that there is inadequate draft. And no testing draft is not hard with a draft gauge but with a wood stove that number is going to change allot through the burn cycle

 

[begreen]

If becomes a warranty issue, seat of the pants takes backseat to hard numbers.

 

[bholler]

I am not saying that a measurement can not be usefull but it will do nothing to tell you why you have no draft. And we can all tell if there is enough draft or not so from there i just start to diagnose the possible causes. The only times i measure draft is in over drafting situations and that is to help the homeowner dial in the damper setting. But again this will change wit hthe fire and the outside temp so

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Draft is almost never checked for a wood stove testing draft for a wood stove is difficult because it requires a full temp fire so it takes quite a while to get a good reading. And honestly that will not necessarily tell you much. We know there is not enough draft the question is why my bet would be negative pressure in the house combined with little temperature differential

Bingo! in this case the stove was not installed correctly. If your chimney does not draft with no appliance then you are hooking the appliance to a bugsbunny painted thimble on the wall. disconnect the appliance and fix the draft. no big deal. The draft reading will be an eye opener for the installer.
Its all about time and money! if a flat rate is given for install then insulation is not recommended and proper setup is not completed. You can even leave a probe hole in your pipe so you can see your draft over time. its fun!

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Figuring out why the stove is not drawing is way more important than a constantly changing number that is only going to tell us what we already know that there is inadequate draft. And no testing draft is not hard with a draft gauge but with a wood stove that number is going to change allot through the burn cycle

The stove is not drawing, because there is no draft! An appliance can not create draft! I think SWitzer has some explanation of this in his material well written.
Hence the reason he designed a draft fan inducer into his systems.

 

[bholler]

I agree that an appliance can not create draft but with out a temperature differential there will be little to no draft either. There are other problems here either from lack of temp differential or from a negative pressure situation in the house. I am not saying that a draft reading is not helpful but just from the description i can tell there is inadequate draft (as well as probably poor quality wood) so i would just move on to diagnose the cause of the lack of draft to me that number means very little. And by the way draft inducers don't actually create draft either they ar ejust a bandaid for a larger problem and usually cause more problems in the long run than they fix

 

[TradEddie]

Begins to sound more and more like wet wood once again. Any chance we could get a measurement?

As for the OAK, if there was negative pressure in the basement, the OAK would indeed be the path of least resistance, but there are other reasons an OAK is installed. Also, having an OAK in a negative pressure basement that was not tight to the stove air supply would be a 4" air hole leaking cold air into the basement whenever the stove wasn't being used. Sounds like a poor design to me.

TE

 

[HotCoals]

For kicks if the stove is cold light some paper and hold it by the exit to see if the smoke goes up the flue without coming back into the room.
Do you have any big trees near your chimney?
Are you in a valley?

 

[Swedishchef]

Hey

Welcome to the forums! Where do you live on the East Coast? I used to live in NB...

As per most people's comments concerning your stove, I think your smokey stove issues are a combination of 3 things:
1- Your wood is too wet : new stoves need DRY wood. Even if it is 2 years old, it has to have been sitting in an open area, stacked neatly. If it was lying on the ground on in a shady area that gets no wind, it won't be dry. Maple takes 2 good years to season after being split, oak takes 3. I am always 2-3 seasons ahead with my wood
2- Do you live in a new house? Or newer? New houses are pretty air tight. Do you have an air exchanger? If you do, unless it was balanced, this could create a negative pressure in your house. Take a deep breath in and purse your lips. Then let it out. This is what happens in newer air tight houses that have air exchangers that aren't balanced. 80% of HVAC systems are improperly installed.
3- Negative pressure in the basement from naturally occuring situations:Open a window 10-15 minutes before lighting the stove. Then open the stove door a crack. Light a lighter and place the flame near the door. If the flame goes IN, your have +ve draft. IF you see the flame going AWAY from the door, don't light the stove. After opening a window/door for 15-30 minutes (I do this about 2-3 times a winter if my stove has been out for a long time), the pressure outside your house will balance with inside.

Let us know how you make out!

Andrew

 

[Cockshutt]

Ok... My installer came out and did his thing. Checked the stove, chimney, measured the draft, and checked the moisture content of my wood.
In a nutshell, my wood was too wet, the ambient temperature was too warm, and I am still figuring out the stove.
I've now got some dry wood inside, the temperature has dropped, and I've been having some success! With this stove in my situation, the fire needs to be started with enough wood for a good burn. To eliminate smoke spillage the door cannot be opened unless the woodstove is hot. When loading wood I just need to think about it! I have had several overnight burns and have been able to restart in the morning off the coals. Morning restarts are dicey if I'm indecisive and open the door twice - smoke spillage draws the attention of my wife!
Cape Breton Island

 

[Silenced38]

Ok... My installer came out and did his thing. Checked the stove, chimney, measured the draft, and checked the moisture content of my wood.
In a nutshell, my wood was too wet, the ambient temperature was too warm, and I am still figuring out the stove.
I've now got some dry wood inside, the temperature has dropped, and I've been having some success! With this stove in my situation, the fire needs to be started with enough wood for a good burn. To eliminate smoke spillage the door cannot be opened unless the woodstove is hot. When loading wood I just need to think about it! I have had several overnight burns and have been able to restart in the morning off the coals. Morning restarts are dicey if I'm indecisive and open the door twice - smoke spillage draws the attention of my wife!
Cape Breton Island

Hi. I too am new to epa stoves. I am having a similar problem. I narrowed my problem to outside temps being warm, inexperience with epa stoves and being to cautious. Not putting enough wood in at the start and having to open the door to add more. Before it was good and hot. But each burn is getting better. But still too warm outside.

 

[begreen]

This story will repeat several times until outside temps get colder. Damp wood is a big pain to deal with too. Bring as much wood as you can indoors. If it is in a dry garage, stack it and place a fan to blow through the stack. If you can bring wood into a warmed space consider putting it in some plastic tubs to contain the mess.

 

[TradEddie]

Funny that we never picked up on the load size issue. Once you have dry wood, and know your stove well, you'll be able to fill that stove every time and use the air control to regulate the burn time. Unless I'm specifically intending to let the fire go out, there are only two types of load size: packed and jam-packed.

TE

 

[Cockshutt]

Now, about load size... When I fill it up at night, I'm keeping the draft open for about fifteen minutes and then closing it for the night. Will there be any secondary burn? Or is it just a slow burn?

 

[begreen]

If the wood is damp you may need to keep the air open for longer to dry out the wood. This could be for 30 minutes depending on the wood dampness. If the fire doesn't get hot enough it will just smolder when you close it down. No secondary burn in that case. Try closing it down incrementally instead. Close it down until the flames get lazy, then wait until they regain their vigor. Then repeat.

 

[Jags]

I'm keeping the draft open for about fifteen minutes...

I don't go by time, I go by temp. If my stove isn't above 500F on a fresh load, it ain't gonna go into secondaries and it will smoke. I view it similar to lighting off a cat on a cat stove. If you ain't in the active zone, it ain't gonna light off.

 

[TradEddie]

Now, about load size... When I fill it up at night, I'm keeping the draft open for about fifteen minutes and then closing it for the night. Will there be any secondary burn? Or is it just a slow burn?

Unless you're at the end of the burn cycle and have only coals left, you don't ever want a slow burn with no secondary flames. That's the recipe for creosote and chimney fires.

For me, an ideal overnight burn begins by timing my previous load so that there is just a few coals left in a hot stove about 30 minutes before I want to go to bed. I rake the hot coals into a pile in the front of the doghouse air, then I load the stove as fully as possible, leaving as few gaps between the splits as possible. I close the door and keep the air open fully, I'll close the air incrementally based on how the fire is looking and what the stovetop temperature is, but within 15-20 minutes the air should be fully or almost fully closed. I want the stove to heat up to secondary burn temperature, but as little past that as possible, so timing that air reduction is crucial, too soon and there won't be enough heat to maintain secondary combustion, too late and the stove runs unnecessarily hot and you burn wood too quickly.The goal is to have just a small glowing core in the bottom of the pile driving smoke and gases up to the secondary tubes. It really doesn't take much "fire" to generate secondary combustion gases, but the stove needs to be hot enough first. For me, just below 400F on the stovetop thermometer is the critical point for secondary combustion to be maintained. I'll turn down the air before that if I see the temperature is rising fast, but I won't leave the stove until I have steady temperatures above 400F and little or no air left open.

TE

 

[cheechblu]

Consider the Envi or Bio Blocks. Save that wet wood for next year.

By the way, your Osborne is a real good look'in stove. Good luck with it.