Next Generation Stove Design Challenge Finalist Announced

[BrowningBAR]

Before I fall in love with another Woodstock stove, are there any Canadian owners lurking around here? Just having flashbacks to the insurance bureaucracy and my last inquiries into purchasing a stove out of the US...

Good question. You would think there would be at least one Woodstock owner in Canada that is on this forum.

 

[Slow1]

As to the technology displayed, it seems from the entries that the limit is being reached on how far one can go to improve the stoves without resorting to automated control systems. Face it with about 1g/hr (+/- .5) on the top stoves, there isn't much being wasted up the flue now is there? As long as we rely on natural draft and manual controls (i.e. most likely not going to be tweaked throughout the burn cycle) just how much more efficient and clean can a stove get? There seems to be a law of diminishing returns hitting here somewhere.

I am glad to see several entries working along the lines of automated controls. As much as the simplicity of a fully manual stove appeals - and the thought of failures in electronics concerns me, I really do believe that to push the envelope much farther in either cleaner emissions or higher efficiency will require much finer control of the burn environment and thus some automation.

 

[BrowningBAR]

As to the technology displayed, it seems from the entries that the limit is being reached on how far one can go to improve the stoves without resorting to automated control systems.

I've learned to never underestimate technology or ingenuity.

 

[bag of hammers]

Face it with about 1g/hr (+/- .5) on the top stoves, there isn't much being wasted up the flue now is there?

good point - help me understand - is this clean burn a result of the "cat" half of the equation, or the hybrid technology - put another way, in general (Lopi or beyond) is a hybrid generally a cleaner burn than a cat? I'm wondering if the hybrid is something a lot of stove mfg's will be offering at some point...?

 

[NortheastAl]

As to the technology displayed, it seems from the entries that the limit is being reached on how far one can go to improve the stoves without resorting to automated control systems. Face it with about 1g/hr (+/- .5) on the top stoves, there isn't much being wasted up the flue now is there? As long as we rely on natural draft and manual controls (i.e. most likely not going to be tweaked throughout the burn cycle) just how much more efficient and clean can a stove get? There seems to be a law of diminishing returns hitting here somewhere.

I am glad to see several entries working along the lines of automated controls. As much as the simplicity of a fully manual stove appeals - and the thought of failures in electronics concerns me, I really do believe that to push the envelope much farther in either cleaner emissions or higher efficiency will require much finer control of the burn environment and thus some automation.

Once it gets into electronics running the burn we may as well go to pellet stoves. Primarily the reason I went from pellet to wood burner.

I also think you are right, for now at least, on the law of diminishing return. With the Lopi Hybrid it seems the threshold of .45 gm hr is going to be as close as need be for a clean burning stove. To have all the electronic gadgets gizmos and the like to get it below that seems ludicrous. And, I'm sure the cost will be another stumbling block. Then, if you can't have a fire when the juice is out, what good is it?

If the standard ever comes to an electrical monitoring system needed to pass the EPA requirements, then I think there will be a lot of old stoves commanding big prices. And, just maybe, a lot of outlaws.

 

[Jags]

Then, if you can't have a fire when the juice is out, what good is it?

Nothing says that they can't be engineered for a manual override. Power goes out. Adjust it yourself.

 

[NortheastAl]

Nothing says that they can't be engineered for a manual override. Power goes out. Adjust it yourself.

Good point.

 

[Slow1]

good point - help me understand - is this clean burn a result of the "cat" half of the equation, or the hybrid technology - put another way, in general (Lopi or beyond) is a hybrid generally a cleaner burn than a cat? I'm wondering if the hybrid is something a lot of stove mfg's will be offering at some point...?

I do believe it is a combination of both really. The benefit of the non-cat with air injected is that you get a clean burn - but at higher heat output. Cats generally do much better at lower output. However one thing not currently reported (or measured?) is the non-particulate part of the exhaust - i.e. CO up the stack and other organic gasses (other than CO2) that may be potentially wasted fuel. From my understanding the Cat can help to burn these as well (much like your car) and thus perhaps an additional benefit.

I do suspect that hybrid techs are likely to spread - the seem to be the fad of the day. Then something else will come along...

 

[Slow1]

Once it gets into electronics running the burn we may as well go to pellet stoves. Primarily the reason I went from pellet to wood burner.

While I agree with partially with the sentiment, I still have the "I don't see any pellet trees growing in my neighborhood" argument to toss out there. If I bought all my wood and pellets were about the same cost/effective btu then perhaps I'd buy into that a bit more.

I also (as begreen pointed out) have to imagine that there would be a manual mode or some such for when power fails.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

All in all, this could be an exciting time for all wood burners. For sure it will take some time for these ideas to hit the market but in the end I think we'll all benefit from these experiments in new design.

 

[BlueMavWood]

Stop with the pissy crap and your clownish political rant. Spend your money where you want.

This thread is about stoves. If you don't want to spend "X" amount of money on a stove, then don't. This thread is about new technology as it regards stoves. If you are waiting for the Chinese version, good luck.

Others brought up the cost of the new stoves. Perhaps you should read more closely. Seems like a valid consideration unless cost isn't a factor. Perhaps it isn't for you but it seems to be for some. If you don't feel comfortable talking about that aspect of the new technology then feel free to not join in. Good luck.

 

[blwncrewchief]

I truly hope the Woodstock comes out as decent looking, strong performer, with a good price point. It's on my waiting for list. In fact if they need any beta testers I'm available.

 

[BlueMavWood]

Lets not take this thread off its tracks. It is good and informative.

Take it to the ashcan if you see merit (a universal "you", implied).

Well....I really do love your style Jags.

 

[BlueMavWood]

All in all, this could be an exciting time for all wood burners. For sure it will take some time for these ideas to hit the market but in the end I think we'll all benefit from these experiments in new design.

I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't agree more. It makes me wish this kind of thing had started long ago (it did of course but more is better).

 

[BrotherBart]

Meanwhile back on topic in the OP.

 

[charly]

Talking with John last week at Woodstock,, I was told the new stove will come in two sizes, one around the PH and one I believe around the Fireview or smaller?.. I believe he mentioned February or March as to being available..who knows,, will just wait and see! Patience!

 

[BrotherBart]

Wrapping this one up. Looks like it has run its course.