Next Generation Stove Design Challenge Finalist Announced

[Huntindog1]

These students at UMCP seem to have a interesting idea. But reliablilty maybe an issue.




MULCIBER

School: University of Maryland, College Park
Location: Maryland, United States
Team Captain: Taylor Myers
Contact: 301-514-6937 / [email protected]

Stove: Mulciber Wood Stove
The Mulciber Wood Stove seeks to provide a clean, simple, and easy-to-use wood stove. Simple heat recovery and smart ventilation and burning control systems are built in. Air flow is controlled by automatic systems, responding to changes in the burning environment and constantly maintaining the ideal burning conditions. Even start up is easy with a forced air ventilation system. The unique co-axial inlet helps harvest excess heat that normally just goes out the chimney while keeping the system closed to the rest of the home. Thermoelectric generators provide power to circulate stove heat throughout the home, creating a more comfortable environment.

 

[Huntindog1]

No body is talking about the LOPI 3.0 cuft entered.

Its a new hybrid type system. .43 grams emissions.

(broken link removed to http://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=364)

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[Jags]

No body is talking about the LOPI 3.0 cuft entered.

Its a new hybrid type system. .43 grams emissions.

(broken link removed to http://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=364)

Does wood stock got some competition?

No thermostat on the Lopi, but I like what they are doing.

 

[BrowningBAR]

"Low-pie?"

That's how you pronounce it?

 

[Jags]

"Low-pie?"

That's how you pronounce it?

Yep.

 

[jharkin]

A progress hybrid type combustion system with a Blaze king like thermostat? That's a winner in the making.

Offer it in a couple of sizes including a smaller fireview sized (2.2~2.5) version for those of us who dont need 3+ and I'm very interested.

 

[BlueMavWood]

If they charge 4k and have 500 in materials that leaves 3500
Most dealer networks for any product get a 30% discount to sell the product and promote it cover carrying costs for having inventory so
4000 X .30 = 1200 3500- 1200 = 2300
I have a small manufacturing company and my personal estimate is it takes between 10 to 12 man hours to build the stove using modern shears benders plasma cutters and welders so lets call it 10. The average fabricator / welder around here gets 20 to 25 dollars an hour if skilled at the trade.so the middle is 22.50 in wages X10 hours = 225.00 but the actual cost for an employee also have SSI workman's compensation health insurance vacation time sick time a couple of personal days and about 11 national holidays off. This in general can be roughed out as equal to the wages in most cases more or less. so another 225 so labor is 225 x2= 450
2300 -450 = 1850
In order to build the stoves in quantity you need plasma cutters shears welders and various cranes and fork lifts that can work with very heavy sheets of plate steel plus paint booths and packaging equipment. In round numbers maybe 2 million in equipment. There is a building that I would think a minimum of 30,000 sq ft to 50,000 sq ft to house all this stuff and have some sort of assembly line for streamlined work flow. call it 40,000 to be in the middle. Most commercial space rents for about 8.00 per sq ft on an annual basis. so 320,000 in rent every year. this still leaves people in sales, engineering and management plus advertising / promotional costs If you bundle all those costs at 15% of each sold the 400 X .15 = 600
1850 - 600 = 1250 for a potential profit
Now you have federal state and local taxes for my small biz they eat up 40% of profit so..
1250 - 500 = 750
There is still carrying cost for materials plant maintenance equipment maintenance office supplies utilities and a myriad of other costs I am willing to bet their net profit per unit was closer to 500 per unit or less than the dealer...
This is a closer to reality view of manufacturing in the USA and how companies like GM Ford and Chrysler can go bankrupt quickly if things go bad.

I would not be so quick to fault the company until you have tried to run a manufacturing plant of any size trying to build things in a volume for nation distribution. What amazes me is how cars can cost so little considering their complexity and a stove can cost so much. There must be a reduction in cost due to scale of manufacturing that defies common sense.

sorry for the long post but hopefully a peek into the pitfalls and costs of doing business.

Blahh, blahh, blahh. When corporate america pays me $45/hr I'll be glad to consider buying american. Until then I'll gladly wait for the chinese version. There's a pitfall for yah.

 

[Jags]

Blahh, blahh, blahh. When corporate america pays me $45/hr I'll be glad to consider buying american. Until then I'll gladly wait for the chinese version. There's a pitfall for yah.

I think we have just discovered the perpetual motion machine.

 

[ddahlgren]

Blahh, blahh, blahh. When corporate america pays me $45/hr I'll be glad to consider buying american. Until then I'll gladly wait for the chinese version. There's a pitfall for yah.

It is not what they pay you it is what you cost them two entirely different things. until you have run a business on the so called up and up and pay all the taxes and fees you just have no idea what an employee costs over the period of a year.

 

[BrowningBAR]

When corporate america pays me $45/hr I'll be glad to consider buying american. Until then I'll gladly wait for the chinese version.

That is a very weird mindset.

 

[jharkin]

Its a vicious circle, when we are too cheap to buy quality, then American companies go out of business (well partly, ther is the whole 'free' trade thing and china rigging the game but i digress). If more of us would put our money where our mouth is and pay for quality goods made here, more American companies would be able to compete against offshore labor and the cost of American goods might come down.

 

[Slow1]

No body is talking about the LOPI 3.0 cuft entered.

Its a new hybrid type system. .43 grams emissions.

(broken link removed to http://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=364)

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

That .43 gph is very impressive.

That ashpan looks very small to me so anyone who plans to use it would likely need to empty it far more than the once/mo that is claimed (if burning 24/7). Also the recommendation that the stove be cold on emptying the ashpan... well, not happening in most January's around here...

The electric "Green start" is interesting. I doubt I'd buy it, but I can see some folks liking it (particularly those who burn only on occasion).

His version of a "top down" fire doesn't match what I call a top-down fire.. it is some sort of a mix, but putting all that kindling under the paper is a bottom-up so whatever

It does look like a nice stove, very easy to run it seems. Interesting that they advocate closing the cat damper immediately after closing the door on a reload.

No mention of temperatures just "really hot" no mention of stovetop/flue temps, but perhaps that is to 'keep it simple' for folks - i.e. too many numbers etc are confusing to a lot of folks and may scare them off?

Really good demo of the convection deck and the value of the blower.

Interesting that they will include a moisture meter with the stove - brilliant! Even a lesson on how to use the meter.

 

[jharkin]

That ashpan looks very small to me so anyone who plans to use it would likely need to empty it far more than the once/mo that is claimed (if burning 24/7). Also the recommendation that the stove be cold on emptying the ashpan... well, not happening in most January's around here...

The ashpan looks smaller - in relation to the firebox size - even than the typical VC ashpan. And I find those need emptying every 2 days to prevent spillover.

The empty when cold warning is probably because they dont want you to get the blast furnace effect via feeding unrestricted air from under the grate. You just need to open the front door while emptying the ashpan to break suction and avoid that. I do it all the time.

 

[begreen]

Cost aside, the claims made for the stove seem a bit of a stretch.

"Kimberly was originally designed for use in small spaces such as boats, RV's and tiny houses, but can heat up to 1500 sq/ft of well insulated living space."

In one sense it's hard to argue with that because of the qualifier - well insulated living space. Missing from the statement is at what outside temperature? Also, a well insulated space is ambiguous. A stove with the capacity to burn only one Home-Fire Prest log is only going to be putting out about 8000 btus/hr. But that is not subtracting what goes up the flue. If the stove is 85% efficient, then actual room heat will be around 6800 btus/hr or roughly the equivalent of having a 2000 watt heater running. So yes, that may be enough heat to warm a 1500 sq ft styrofoam igloo. But would it heat a well built, small home of 1500 sq ft when it's 20 outside? Unlikely.

The image shows the stove in a yurt. It's similar to the yurt we put a Morso 2110 in. I can tell you that in a 36 diam. yurt, when it is 25 outside, you need more than 6800 btus/hr to heat it. With the 2110 running at a good clip it is just warm enough. At 20F, it has to be stoked every 3 hrs. and just makes it about warm enough.

 

[bag of hammers]

No body is talking about the LOPI 3.0 cuft entered.

Are there not a few folks here that own that model today? Or did I imagine that. Or is this a variation on what's currently in the Lopi lineup? Looks nice.

 

[BlueMavWood]

Its a vicious circle, when we are too cheap to buy quality, then American companies go out of business (well partly, ther is the whole 'free' trade thing and china rigging the game but i digress). If more of us would put our money where our mouth is and pay for quality goods made here, more American companies would be able to compete against offshore labor and the cost of American goods might come down.

Yes it's a vicious circle but you fail to complete the circle. When american companys (flush with cash) are to cheap to hire and pay their workers a living wage then those workers are left to buy products they can afford. It's a "perpetual motion machine" like Jags said. One thing perpetuates the other. Jobs and wages perpetuate buying and buying perpetuate jobs and wages. If you have the solution to that then aren't you brilliant. So if your mouth is full of MONEY then feel free to spend it on a $4000.00 stove (aren't you special). Others, however, will do what they must to stay warm and put FOOD in their mouth.

 

[begreen]

Yes we have a few members owning that stove. So far they are happy campers. It is a good looker.

 

[jharkin]

Yes it's a vicious circle but you fail to complete the circle. When american companys (flush with cash) are to cheap to hire and pay their workers a living wage then those workers are left to buy products they can afford. It's a "perpetual motion machine" like Jags said. One thing perpetuates the other. Jobs and wages perpetuate buying and buying perpetuate jobs and wages. If you have the solution to that then aren't you brilliant. So if your mouth is full of MONEY then feel free to spend it on a $4000.00 stove (aren't you special). Others, however, will do what they must to stay warm and put FOOD in their mouth.

Excuse me, what did I do to offend you?

That's why I put the "free trade and china rigging the game" disclaimer in parantheses. I never claimed to have some magic solution.

You dont have to be a millionaire to spend your money on American made, you just will have fewer, but higher quality possessions. Media wants us to think the way to happiness is having more "stuff" than the Joneses. I dont buy it.

 

[bag of hammers]

Thanks begreen for the sanity check. So far (from my sideline view) it looks like Lopi and Woodstock (and maybe hybrids in general?) are a home run. And also for mentioning the "yurt" which I had to google (had no idea what that was, in the pic or otherwise). Learn something new every day....

 

[BrowningBAR]

Yes it's a vicious circle but you fail to complete the circle. When american companys (flush with cash) are to cheap to hire and pay their workers a living wage then those workers are left to buy products they can afford. It's a "perpetual motion machine" like Jags said. One thing perpetuates the other. Jobs and wages perpetuate buying and buying perpetuate jobs and wages. If you have the solution to that then aren't you brilliant. So if your mouth is full of MONEY then feel free to spend it on a $4000.00 stove (aren't you special). Others, however, will do what they must to stay warm and put FOOD in their mouth.

Stop with the pissy crap and your clownish political rant. Spend your money where you want.

This thread is about stoves. If you don't want to spend "X" amount of money on a stove, then don't. This thread is about new technology as it regards stoves. If you are waiting for the Chinese version, good luck.

 

[BrowningBAR]

My question is, when will we see the Woodstock stove? If it is entered into the contest, then a finished version exists, right? This contest does not conclude until this November. Will Woodstock offer the stove before the end of the year?

 

[begreen]

Good question. It would be nice if Woodstock would update there blog. There hasn't had a posting since early Sept. 2012.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Excuse me, what did I do to offend you?
That's why I put the "free trade and china rigging the game" disclaimer in parantheses. I never claimed to have some magic solution.
You dont have to be a millionaire to spend your money on American made, you just will have fewer, but higher quality possessions. Media wants us to think the way to happiness is having more "stuff" than the Joneses. I dont buy it.

I agree Jeremy
Probably the "magic" solution is for the US to charge tariffs on imported goods like most other countries. I v asked this question a hundred times but have yet to get an credible answer. WHy is it OK for china to charge the US 25% tariff on US goods imported into china and the US to charge 3% on imported china goods ? Perhaps if we want equal trade we should insist on equal tariff. Or might that eat into someones corporate profits somewhere?

 

[Jags]

Lets not take this thread off its tracks. It is good and informative.

Take it to the ashcan if you see merit (a universal "you", implied).

 

[bag of hammers]

Before I fall in love with another Woodstock stove, are there any Canadian owners lurking around here? Just having flashbacks to the insurance bureaucracy and my last inquiries into purchasing a stove out of the US...