Newbie here

[17vljoe]

Ok, thanks everyone for the help. My plan is to make sure i am burning good dry wood from now on, crack the door on start up to try to heat everything up faster. and run some creosote conditioner through to try to help brake down whats in there now. If i still have trouble with the build up, i may look into a damper to slow the draft down a little in hopes that the smoke will fully burn in the stove. I know it takes time to get the kinks worked out, its most likely operator error on my part haha. I will keep you guys updated on my progress. Thanks again everyone!

 

[Sprinter]

crack the door on start up to try to heat everything up faster.

Be extra diligent if you do this, but I'd advise against it. It's just all too easy to forget about it or fall asleep. Only a week ago a friend from church did just exactly that and fell asleep while feeding the baby and awoke to sirens. Neighbors saw flames from the flue and called it in before he even know what had happened. Their flue had enough buildup to cause a chimney fire. No damage, but I think the wife had a few things to say about it...

It's always a good idea to use a timer during the early stages, and I love having a stove-top thermometer with an alarm. Same for a flue thermometer.

 

[17vljoe]

O wow, thats a bit scary. Could have easly turned out alot worse than that! Thats a good idea the alarm thermometer, i did not know they made them. If i were to crack the door i would make sure i was standing in front of the stove the whole time it was cracked.

 

[saskwoodburner]

Be extra diligent if you do this, but I'd advise against it. It's just all too easy to forget about it or fall asleep. Only a week ago a friend from church did just exactly that and fell asleep while feeding the baby and awoke to sirens. Neighbors saw flames from the flue and called it in before he even know what had happened. Their flue had enough buildup to cause a chimney fire. No damage, but I think the wife had a few things to say about it...

It's always a good idea to use a timer during the early stages, and I love having a stove-top thermometer with an alarm. Same for a flue thermometer.

I don't think having the door open a smidge on start up for a couple minutes is rare is it? I'm sure it's recommended all over the forum.

I'm the opposite of the rage the fire until the stove says 500 F and close the door and start turning down the air guys. I will close the door as soon as the fire can sustain itself, and shutdown the air by flue temp and how the fire looks.

I dare say I probably drop my fire in a lot lower than most people. It takes time for the stove temp to match the flue temp, that's why I can start shutting air down when the flue probe says 400 F, even if the the side of the stove says 150-200 F. It just didn't catch up yet as it takes a bit to heat the mass of the stove.

I also don't profess to be an expert, but I know my way around the Englander 17 quite well.

 

[Sprinter]

O wow, thats a bit scary. Could have easly turned out alot worse than that! Thats a good idea the alarm thermometer, i did not know they made them. If i were to crack the door i would make sure i was standing in front of the stove the whole time it was cracked.

There are a few approaches to this. The commercial route is one way. Look up Auber T210. It's kind of expensive and has mixed reviews though. If you are a DIY type, you can easily make one yourself like I did with a cheap PID controller from an ebay source with a bead-type thermocouple and a $5 alarm hooked up to it. If interested, I can forward some more info on the DIY approach.

 

[Sprinter]

I don't think having the door open a smidge on start up for a couple minutes is rare is it?

No, it isn't, and I've done it myself sometimes. but it does require a bit more attention. Actually I don't do it anymore mainly because I've found that it's actually more effective to let the air control do it. Leaving the door opened a crack seems to fan the fire a little too much and can cool it off. YMMV as always. Just be careful and observe the fire the whole time. It may be especially important if you have an excess draft problem. But the same can be true when using the air control up high at first too...

It probably also depends on what you are using to start the fire. I've been using Super Cedars for four seasons now and find that just using the air control works best with them.

 

[17vljoe]

Ok, i lit the 17 today when i got home from work, i got it up and going good in about 15 mins.i cracked the door for 2-3mins to make sure it got the draft going. I ran the primary air open until the single wall got over 250 exterior temp. Then throttled back, steping it down to about 5/8 the way closed and left it burn. Single wall temp fluctuated from 250-310, stove went to 550 and hung there for a while then burned down. Loaded and repeated. Its burning consistant at that setting. I measured every piece of wood i put in, all 14-18 % moisture. I am still getting soot on the glass cant figure that out. [ATTACH176761[/ATTACH]
So i just noticed when i took that picture there is a calk seam under the ash lip that looks lokes it is blown out maby? Not sure what the calk is sealing? Or why it looks blown out? Should i re-seal that with fire calk?

 

[BrotherBart]

Paging Mike Holton. Call in the lobby for @stoveguy2esw . Some welder drank his lunch?

 

[17vljoe]

Haha yeah right, its not a weld. (I am a welder by trade) upon further investigation, The ash lip appears to be stitch welded on either end underneath, and then filled in with calk in between, not sure why it looks blown out? The ash lip appears to just be a plate stitch welded on the exterior of the stove body, should not be a problem.

 

[Sprinter]

I am still getting soot on the glass cant figure that out.

Maybe you are cutting the air down a little too much, too quickly? Could you tell if the creosote staining began early in the burn or later on? I'm not familiar with the 17, but some stoves are a little more prone to window staining than others are. That pic looks like too much, though.

Every time I've gotten that kind of window buildup its because of either wood that's not quite ready-for-prime-time, or the air was turned down too early, or sometimes the load just wasn't built very well which can lead to a very slow startup and a lot of time for creosote to build up before the stove can reburn the stuff.

FWIW, I rarely have to clean my window any more often than a couple of weeks, but it hasn''t always been that way.

Have you been looking at the smoke output from the chimney to determine if it has started to burn clean before throttling down? That can be a better indicator than flue or stove temps.

 

[17vljoe]

Thanks for the help . Im still learning. I think it was early on in the burn when i was getting it started. And maby a little more on reload. I will try to let it burn wide open longer before slowing it down.

 

[Sprinter]

Im still learning.

We all are, regardless of experience, but that's why we're here.

You seem to have a handle on the wood aspect, but it would be incomplete not to ask how you are measuring the wood moisture content. Of all the factors, this is the one that causes the most trouble. I don't doubt what you have been doing, but it's worth another look.

Also, you may want to revisit the stovepipe temps. Again, the 17 may be different, but for me, it's not always ready to start turning the air down until the the internal temp is up to 800 or even 1000 sometimes, but it will quickly cool down when air is turned down.

The stove pipe can get hotter without worry. it's not uncommon for it to go spike up to 800F - internal temp - for a short while on startup until the air is turned down.

Without being there and knowing more, it sounds like you either still have a wood problem or you just need to experiment more with technique. Look outside for smoke. I've sometimes noticed that when the secondaries kick in, it's almost like flicking a switch off.

I can't comment too much on the long chimney. But it seems to me that a tall chimney is more likely to cause over-firing than cool fires like yours, with the extra draft. If the total flue height is too high, you should be seeing opposite kinds of problems. At least that's what I've gleaned from these forums. My flue is on the short side.

Did I read that it has taken you up to 30 minutes to get the fire hot enough to turn down? That's too long. Indicates a problem if true.

 

[saskwoodburner]

Thanks for the help . Im still learning. I think it was early on in the burn when i was getting it started. And maby a little more on reload. I will try to let it burn wide open longer before slowing it down.

What are your typical temperatures where you are? It's much easier to keep the window clean in cold weather, and even one dodgy piece of wood, or stacked wrong (wood rolls, blocks doghouse air) can gross up the window. But even if you do smoke the window, a hot fire usually turns it white.

BTW, having the air wide open too long can also produce smoke out the chimney. It doesn't have enough "hang time" in the stove for it to all burn up. But what do I know, I just own one of these stoves.

Shoot me a message if you want to discuss running your stove.

 

[beatlefan]

I know others disagree with me on this, but I believe that your long run of external chimney could be cooling the smoke too quickly, causing backdraft.

 

[17vljoe]

What are your typical temperatures where you are? It's much easier to keep the window clean in cold weather, and even one dodgy piece of wood, or stacked wrong (wood rolls, blocks doghouse air) can gross up the window. But even if you do smoke the window, a hot fire usually turns it white.

BTW, having the air wide open too long can also produce smoke out the chimney. It doesn't have enough "hang time" in the stove for it to all burn up. But what do I know, I just own one of these stoves.

Shoot me a message if you want to discuss running your stove.

I think the warmer outside temps are hurting me here. Its in the mid 40's this week at night. Yeah i agree with the heat in the box. This stove is very shallow it seems if i run it with to much primary alot of the heat is blown out of the stove. So i think there a fine line there at least with my set up and the temps this time of year. I would like to hear about how other 17 owners are running there stoves, stove temps and flue temps, just to compare/ base line for me to try to run mine. Thanks again for the help everyone.

 

[begreen]

Dry wood makes a world of difference in how the stove behaves.

 

[saskwoodburner]

I think the warmer outside temps are hurting me here. Its in the mid 40's this week at night. Yeah i agree with the heat in the box. This stove is very shallow it seems if i run it with to much primary alot of the heat is blown out of the stove. So i think there a fine line there at least with my set up and the temps this time of year. I would like to hear about how other 17 owners are running there stoves, stove temps and flue temps, just to compare/ base line for me to try to run mine. Thanks again for the help everyone.

That is quite warm, although you have a lot of chimney, so that would probably counter much of the effect warm weather may have on your draft. It would probably pull pretty decent no matter what. That 45 degree range is almost my cut off for making fires, as any more than a glorified kindling fire will heat up our small place too much.

As for fire starting, I crack the door an eighth or quarter inch on start up to help the fire along. It may be less of a requirement for you than for me, as I have a shorter stack. Cracking the door wider like an inch or two might help the fire get going quicker ( it's not a race) but it does nothing for warming the stove, and blows heat up the stack. I call it false draft. If you crack the door even more, at some point it breaks the draft so to speak.

I shut the door completely as soon as the fire will sustain itself (with wood charred) on full air (flue probe usually says ballpark 400 F), I don't even worry what the temp on the side of the stove says. It will eventually catch up, and really, you can't expect the mass of the stove to keep pace with the flue temp off the line without off gassing or blowing half your wood up the chimney.

Another thought on the fire start up, is make sure the wood is charred. It doesn't have to be 100 %, but when I make a fire and close the door off the hop, a piece may be burning well, while others are not. The stove will heat up, and so will the non charred wood, and then it takes off like crazy and off gasses.

As for running temps, anywhere past 400 F on the side of the stove is fine with me. For the front of the stove, I like it in the 490-540 F range, and the flue probe temp around 500-600 F. Stove top is never hot, I don't think I've seen higher than 380 f on a spirited run. In fact, my double wall stove pipe will exceed the stove top temp if you push it.

I've found that this stove seems most efficient in this range. You can give it a bit more air, and bump the stove temp another 50-75 F, but then the flue probe goes up another 200-250 f. Kind of like 4 barrel carbs, 15% more performance 30% more fuel use.

I've found that keeping most of the fire under the baffles, with a few flames shooting up between is where mine runs best.

As with all things, your mileage and results may vary, but when you get your stove figured out, it'll blow your mind.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Paging Mike Holton. Call in the lobby for @stoveguy2esw . Some welder drank his lunch?

actually that looks like silicone, what it looks like is someone was blowing the stove off (which usually happens before that gets caulked just before going into the paint booth) I guess the guy who caulked it got ahead of the guy who blows the stove off before that, shoulda cleaned it off and recaulked it though, looks pretty ugly.

to the OP, if you want , contact me and we can discuss how to clean that up and make it more presentable