New wood stove install

[j7art2]

Could you rent a boom lift and reach it like that? I used one to do some work on a steep roof on a garage I built with a 10/12 roof.

Probably, but I'm not comfortable with this kind of install myself. I do a lot of DIY things, but I'm not sure cutting 8-10" holes through my roof or walls is within my comfort zone. Heights and I don't particularly get along. Getting on top of the 30' masonry chimney for the first year cleaning the chimney (before I started doing bottom-up cleaning) was interesting and terrifying to say the least.

Tax money is in, so next weekend I'm selling my tractor that I hardly use and starting to get bids.

 

[j7art2]

Oh, another thing to note, I contacted my insurance company and informed them of my intent to install a wood stove. I wanted their specific requirements, but told them I had intended on a professional install. They indicated "As long as it's professionally installed, no problem." I might have inadvertently shot myself in the foot on the DIY install, but one of the other puzzle pieces in all of this is at least out of the equation. Lots of insurance companies don't like wood heat.

 

[EbS-P]

Looks like they are taking pre orders for the HT-3000

I’d take that over a the Vogel. I’m happy with my Drolet. I guessing all the my fireplace products are shipped out of an SBI warehouse. Mine probably was too.

DB07300 | Parts and Manuals

DB07300. Find parts and user manuals for your heater on My Fireplace Products.

myfireplaceproducts.com

Evan

 

[begreen]

Inventory should start rebuilding now and hopefully, manufacturers can get caught up in the next few months.

 

[EbS-P]

Inventory should start rebuilding now and hopefully, manufacturers can get caught up in the next few months.

Except for Jotul….. 2023

They should be very similar in heat output. The green mountain is a good heater.
We were notified that any stoves ordered from Jotul won’t arrive until 2023… 👎

 

[begreen]

Except for Jotul….. 2023

Jotul sales in the US must be tanking. It's a shame. They sell 58 wood-burning products in the UK. In the US they sell only 5 stoves or less than a tenth of their product line. It's surprising that they are that far behind on the F45 & F55 considering they are made in Maine.

 

[webby3650]

Jotul sales in the US must be tanking. It's a shame. They sell 58 wood-burning products in the UK. In the US they sell only 5 stoves or less than a tenth of their product line. It's surprising that they are that far behind on the F45 & F55 considering they are made in Maine.

The real shame is the failing F-500! What a shame. Gotta say, I called that one before it had ever even been in use. Saw it coming!

 

[begreen]

The real shame is the failing F-500! What a shame. Gotta say, I called that one before it had ever even been in use. Saw it coming!

Indeed. Are you continuing to hear of issues with the newest installations or did replacing the cat with one to spec fix that issue?

 

[j7art2]

I didn't realize Jotul was out til 2023. That definitely puts a damper on things. I guess that's likely one I won't be getting unless they have one in stock. I wonder if they'd be comfortable installing a stove brand they don't own.


It's a shame Lowes doesn't sell Drolet stoves anymore. They're listed on their website, but marked as "unavailable."

Sadly I think part of the reason sales are tanking so much for many of these companies is the EPA emissions regulations are not exactly easy to meet. If it were up to me, I'd prefer not to get an EPA stove at all, but that's a different story for a different day.

I'd install a 1970's Earth Stove or a cast iron Jotul in a heartbeat.

 

[EbS-P]

I didn't realize Jotul was out til 2023. That definitely puts a damper on things. I guess that's likely one I won't be getting unless they have one in stock. I wonder if they'd be comfortable installing a stove brand they don't own.


It's a shame Lowes doesn't sell Drolet stoves anymore. They're listed on their website, but marked as "unavailable."

Sadly I think part of the reason sales are tanking so much for many of these companies is the EPA emissions regulations are not exactly easy to meet. If it were up to me, I'd prefer not to get an EPA stove at all, but that's a different story for a different day.

I'd install a 1970's Earth Stove or a cast iron Jotul in a heartbeat.

I would want and EPA stove just for the increased efficiency. Take the earth stove. 55-60% max. New stoves 70% is easy. 75% with not catalytic converter is doable. 80% with a cat. Let’s call it 20 % difference. That’s about 1/3 less wood.
I got my Drolet from Costco, web purchase shipped.

From all accounts stove sales are up. Demand is very high. Supply is very tight due to supply chain demands.

Jotul made a mistake. I love mine. And it hurts to say it but I won’t buy anything they have out now. There are just better designs.

Brings me to my last point. There are lots of great performers at most price points that meet 2020 EPA requirements. And there are some (lots??) duds. My point is if you are wanting a vehicle for a daily driver no one say I really am going to made sure it’s carbureted. Emissions requirements meant manufacturers built a better product. Some of the first injection systems had some issues but I’d never go back. And if I had a gem I was wanting to keep on the road an EFI retrofit would be top of my list.

Is there a reason you are not wanting a stove shipped? If you want a stove for this coming winter I wouldn’t wait. There are good options but I’m guessing steel imports shrink this year. I doubt you will see much if any inventory sitting in a big box store.

Just my thoughts
Evan

 

[begreen]

This true story by Tom Oyen helps illustrated the difference.

Sweep's Library - Wood Stove Emission Comparison Article

Comparing Wood stove Emissions

hearth.com

 

[EbS-P]

This true story by Tom Oyen helps illustrated the difference.

Sweep's Library - Wood Stove Emission Comparison Article

Comparing Wood stove Emissions

hearth.com

A well written good read!

 

[bholler]

I didn't realize Jotul was out til 2023. That definitely puts a damper on things. I guess that's likely one I won't be getting unless they have one in stock. I wonder if they'd be comfortable installing a stove brand they don't own.


It's a shame Lowes doesn't sell Drolet stoves anymore. They're listed on their website, but marked as "unavailable."

Sadly I think part of the reason sales are tanking so much for many of these companies is the EPA emissions regulations are not exactly easy to meet. If it were up to me, I'd prefer not to get an EPA stove at all, but that's a different story for a different day.

I'd install a 1970's Earth Stove or a cast iron Jotul in a heartbeat.

There are some companies that thought ahead and got their stoves out well in advance of the deadline. That meant they got to work the inevitable bugs out on the new stuff while they were still selling the old stuff as well. Sales from those companies are doing fine (other than backlogs due to supply issues).

 

[stoveliker]

Good story.

And "opacity" here is directly related to the ratio of BTUs out the chimney and into the house... And the safety of chimney (fires) and lungs (smoker).

 

[webby3650]

Indeed. Are you continuing to hear of issues with the newest installations or did replacing the cat with one to spec fix that issue?

We have stopped selling them until they are proven more dependable. The ones we’ve replaced haven’t been inspected after the burn season yet. We will see..

 

[begreen]

There are some companies that thought ahead and got their stoves out well in advance of the deadline. That meant they got to work the inevitable bugs out on the new stuff while they were still selling the old stuff as well. Sales from those companies are doing fine (other than backlogs due to supply issues).

Yes, they had 5 yrs. Jotul fought this, perhaps due to past difficulties with adapting their designs to catalytic operation.

 

[begreen]

We have stopped selling them until they are proven more dependable. The ones we’ve replaced haven’t been inspected after the burn season yet. We will see..

Please keep us posted.

 

[j7art2]

Is there a reason you are not wanting a stove shipped? If you want a stove for this coming winter I wouldn’t wait. There are good options but I’m guessing steel imports shrink this year. I doubt you will see much if any inventory sitting in a big box store.

Just my thoughts
Evan

Unfortunately sort of. Like I said, the insurance company is adamant about a professional install. I'm not sure how willing a company will be to install a product they don't service or sell -- I'd have to ask them. If I'm going to order online, it'll likely be a Drolet HT-3000 or Lopi Liberty or something similar, as long as it doesn't have a cat. I won't get a cat stove; and didn't realize Jotul had them until this thread. I guess they're completely out now, even if they weren't having problems prior.

On a side but related note; to say I'm leery about EPA stoves is an understatement. I'll likely be getting one, but it's not by choice. While I understand what they are designed to do and will use less wood, I also feel like I see a LOT more chimney fires with EPA units; especially if they don't have a fresh air install. Maybe I'm just noticing it more because I'm paying more attention to wood burning, but cooler flue temperatures are not always good for creosote formation. A good friend of mine had quite a serious chimney fire months after installing his unit due to not having a fresh air intake and not realizing how dirty his chimney had become. His new EPA unit that replaced the old made significantly more creosote due to poor/incomplete combustion until he installed a fresh air intake. Luckily he didn't lose everything, but this isn't the first time I've heard of this happening either.

Maybe it's just coincidence; I can't say for sure, but it's definitely something on my mind.

 

[firefighterjake]

Unfortunately sort of. Like I said, the insurance company is adamant about a professional install. I'm not sure how willing a company will be to install a product they don't service or sell -- I'd have to ask them. If I'm going to order online, it'll likely be a Drolet HT-3000 or Lopi Liberty or something similar, as long as it doesn't have a cat. I won't get a cat stove; and didn't realize Jotul had them until this thread. I guess they're completely out now, even if they weren't having problems prior.

On a side but related note; to say I'm leery about EPA stoves is an understatement. I'll likely be getting one, but it's not by choice. While I understand what they are designed to do and will use less wood, I also feel like I see a LOT more chimney fires with EPA units; especially if they don't have a fresh air install. Maybe I'm just noticing it more because I'm paying more attention to wood burning, but cooler flue temperatures are not always good for creosote formation. A good friend of mine had quite a serious chimney fire months after installing his unit due to not having a fresh air intake and not realizing how dirty his chimney had become. His new EPA unit that replaced the old made significantly more creosote due to poor/incomplete combustion until he installed a fresh air intake. Luckily he didn't lose everything, but this isn't the first time I've heard of this happening either.

Maybe it's just coincidence; I can't say for sure, but it's definitely something on my mind.

I have seen more fires -- a lot more fires in my profession -- with pre-EPA woodstoves compared to EPA woodstoves. The problem with many pre-EPA woodstoves (assuming they were not installed incorrectly) is that many folks tend to stuff them full of wood at night and then shut them down, producing creosote. Now that's not to say one could not minimize creosote production by regular cleaning and running the stove at the right temps . . . but that's pretty much true of any stove -- pre-EPA or EPA.

 

[bholler]

Unfortunately sort of. Like I said, the insurance company is adamant about a professional install. I'm not sure how willing a company will be to install a product they don't service or sell -- I'd have to ask them. If I'm going to order online, it'll likely be a Drolet HT-3000 or Lopi Liberty or something similar, as long as it doesn't have a cat. I won't get a cat stove; and didn't realize Jotul had them until this thread. I guess they're completely out now, even if they weren't having problems prior.

On a side but related note; to say I'm leery about EPA stoves is an understatement. I'll likely be getting one, but it's not by choice. While I understand what they are designed to do and will use less wood, I also feel like I see a LOT more chimney fires with EPA units; especially if they don't have a fresh air install. Maybe I'm just noticing it more because I'm paying more attention to wood burning, but cooler flue temperatures are not always good for creosote formation. A good friend of mine had quite a serious chimney fire months after installing his unit due to not having a fresh air intake and not realizing how dirty his chimney had become. His new EPA unit that replaced the old made significantly more creosote due to poor/incomplete combustion until he installed a fresh air intake. Luckily he didn't lose everything, but this isn't the first time I've heard of this happening either.

Maybe it's just coincidence; I can't say for sure, but it's definitely something on my mind.

I can without a doubt tell you that the complete opposite is true. Yes a modern stove can absolutely be run incorrectly (usually with wet fuel) causing lots of creosote buildup. But an old stove would do exactly the same thing. In addition older stoves require more air to run so fresh air would be needed more with them than newer stoves.

So while modern stoves in no way remove the risk of a chimney fire they do make it much easier to run a stove in a way that you won't be putting much flammable material in the chimney.

 

[stoveliker]

I think the perceived correlation with a fresh air connection is not present in reality.

This may be a case of inferring general conclusions from anecdotal and limited observations.

 

[brenndatomu]

I also feel like I see a LOT more chimney fires with EPA units; especially if they don't have a fresh air install.

Not at all true...if you have a chimney fire with an EPA stove you are 1. feeding it "too wet" wood 2. operating it incorrectly, as has been mentioned.

 

[bholler]

Not at all true...if you have a chimney fire with an EPA stove you are 1. feeding it "too wet" wood 2. operating it incorrectly, as has been mentioned.

Or not cleaning it properly. (Which is required much less often)

 

[begreen]

On a side but related note; to say I'm leery about EPA stoves is an understatement. I'll likely be getting one, but it's not by choice. While I understand what they are designed to do and will use less wood, I also feel like I see a LOT more chimney fires with EPA units; especially if they don't have a fresh air install.

There really is no correlation there. The opposite is much more true. The typical mode of operation for many burning in old smoke dragons was to load the stove up, turn the air down, and let it smolder overnight. Often poorly seasoned or even green wood was added to assure a long burn. This meant cool flue gases and lots of creosote. It's harder to do this with an EPA stove. One won't get enough heat out of it unless there is decent secondary combustion. Our flue stays clean enough that every other year cleaning is more than sufficient. That's after 6 cords of wood burned. I will post what comes out of the flue pretty soon. We're ending our wood-burning season soon.

 

[j7art2]

There really is no correlation there. The opposite is much more true. The typical mode of operation for many burning in old smoke dragons was to load the stove up, turn the air down, and let it smolder overnight. Often poorly seasoned or even green wood was added to assure a long burn. This meant cool flue gases and lots of creosote. It's harder to do this with an EPA stove. One won't get enough heat out of it unless there is decent secondary combustion. Our flue stays clean enough that every other year cleaning is more than sufficient. That's after 6 cords of wood burned. I will post what comes out of the flue pretty soon. We're ending our wood-burning season soon.

I'm used to a 5 gallon bucket full of creosote and soot yearly, burning 20-30 face a year back when I used to burn in the basement wood furnace. I've also got a 30 foot external clay lined masonry chimney though -- but even then, I didn't consider that overly significant all things considered. It was inspected more than that, but that was across the board for 7+ years.

If I'm cleaning more than once a year, I'm not gonna be happy, regardless of certifications or lack thereof that the stove may have. It's just not something I enjoy doing; but will admittedly be easier (but also messier) in the house going straight up rather than from the basement and going at an angle. Lol.

Once every other year is also perfectly okay, but I also need to be realistic that it may be every year for me. I generally season all of my hardwood at least 2 years, use a MM to verify MC in random splits etc, however admittedly don't cover my wood, so exposure to elements while stacked is common, and wood may have surface moisture from rain/snow, etc.

Are all of you guys covering your wood and keeping it bone dry in addition to seasoning? If the answer to this is yes, I guess I need to carefully consider this as this isn't something I intend on doing and simply don't have the means to do other than covering with a tarp, which of course will then slow seasoning down unless it's just for the winter and already well seasoned.