Well I can tell you this much my old wood burner had a huge fan on it compared to my summit and it moved air through the house much better than the runt fan on the summit.I know the people at Caframo who manufacture those things. I too was skeptical but I was shown an independent lab test along with IR camera video of before and after using them. And they work! because air turbulence albeit small velocity help distribute heat.
However... the average consumers will not be satisfied unless it feels as if they are driving down the freeway in a convertible!
New Wood Stove Insert (cannot heat basement past 70) Enerzone Destination 2.3i
- Thread starter mikedahammer
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil. -
Super Cedar firestarters 30% discount Use code Hearth2024 Click here
- Status
Here is our old stove going over into secodary burn.. I just shot it as I was sitting there.. so it ain't great video.. and it would have been good to be another 10-20 seconds.. but what you see in the last 10 seconds is what it would do for a couple hours while it burned down. Also note my firebox was full.
secondaries...
If you can't get something like that going..
secondaries...
If you can't get something like that going..
SBI approved my use of Roxul, you would need to check with your insert manufacturer, the OP's unit is made by SBI so hence why I recommended it.
With my Appalachian that I now have I could not fit Roxul on the sides so I now only have it on the back and top.
More wood is needed for more heat, also the air is open to much, and with no secondary burning your fuel is very suspect.
To much primary air will have less secondary action, to cool of firebox will have less secondary action and wet wood will have no secondary burning either.
Is the stack smoking outside?t
Here is a vid of my 30 w/ secondary burn. Flames should he good and lazy.
To much primary air will have less secondary action, to cool of firebox will have less secondary action and wet wood will have no secondary burning either.
Is the stack smoking outside?t
Here is a vid of my 30 w/ secondary burn. Flames should he good and lazy.
If your stove is sensitive than most to wet wood (as the other guy with the same stove stated) the only way to know if your wood is dry enough is to get a moisture meter, another thing you could try in the meantime is go to the supermarket and but a couple packages of wood, enough for one good load, if that burns hot with secondaries, you know what the problem is, still wouldnt hurt to do the othert things your doing if it is the wood.
We'll see what happens when I get it insulated and bring the blocking plate down (next Wednesday). I feel comfortable about the wood being dry enough as I can get the stove piping hot. I will update when the stove get adjusted next week. Thank you for all the replies and input. I am going to burn the stove whether or not it is cold outside just to see.
All of the insulating and block off plate moving in the world won't help until you start loading and burning that stove for max heat and efficiency. And what I see in that video ain't it. Piping hot or not.
Scroll down to the last video on this page and watch Efficient Wood Stove Operation. It was the starting place for many of the burners here.
http://woodheat.org/wood-heat-videos.html
Scroll down to the last video on this page and watch Efficient Wood Stove Operation. It was the starting place for many of the burners here.
http://woodheat.org/wood-heat-videos.html
Jon1270
Minister of Fire
I have the very similar Matrix insert, and my experience this year has been much like the OP's. I'm on a first-year burner's iffy wood supply, but confident that's not the problem. I have a Fluke IR gun to check stovetop temps through the outlet at the top, and even when it's at 700F and the radiant heat through the glass door is so intense as to be uncomfortable to be close to, the stove still needs occasional help from the gas furnace to heat my ~1450 square foot colonial to even tolerable temperatures. It can never get things really cozy unless ambient temperatures are already fairly high.
The stove burns really well. I have no trouble getting the secondaries going, and had several nice overnight burns on the best of the wood I had for the season. Obviously the heat is being liberated from the wood, so the question becomes, where is it going? Some is making it into the room, but the rest must be either going up the chimney or escaping out the back and being absorbed into the fireplace. I suspect it's mostly the latter. That might not be such a problem with an interior chimney, but with an exterior wall and/or below grade fireplace I think insulating the rear is basically mandatory with this unit because the vast majority of the surface area is behind the surround, and there's nothing but a thin, highly conductive jacket of sheet steel to keep heat in the path of the blower. I'll be pulling mine out and insulating thoroughly before next season.
The stove burns really well. I have no trouble getting the secondaries going, and had several nice overnight burns on the best of the wood I had for the season. Obviously the heat is being liberated from the wood, so the question becomes, where is it going? Some is making it into the room, but the rest must be either going up the chimney or escaping out the back and being absorbed into the fireplace. I suspect it's mostly the latter. That might not be such a problem with an interior chimney, but with an exterior wall and/or below grade fireplace I think insulating the rear is basically mandatory with this unit because the vast majority of the surface area is behind the surround, and there's nothing but a thin, highly conductive jacket of sheet steel to keep heat in the path of the blower. I'll be pulling mine out and insulating thoroughly before next season.
Jon1270
Minister of Fire
I have a fire going now, so I can offer a bit of actual data to flesh out my theorizing above. Stovetop temperature a couple of inches inside the outlet is currently 591F. The sheet metal jacket directly above is at 477F. I don't have a wrench handy to remove the top of the surround and get a measurement on the outside surface of the jacket, but since it's just a thin piece of steel I think it's a good bet that it would be very near 477F too. That high temperature isn't an indicator of how much heat *is* being lost into the surrounding fireplace, but I think it is an indicator of how much heat *could* be lost there, given cooler surrounding materials (earth, masonry, air) to absorb it.
Hey Jon, I can feel your pain. I just had my stove insulated and the block off plate lowered and it did improve the heat in my basement but not substantially.
The Enerzone stove in my opinion is fair. It definitely could not heat 2000 square feet even under the most optimal settings. I feel like my main problem is that the heat is not getting out far enough in the room to be incorporated into the natural air flow of the house. The blower air can only be felt about a max of 18 inches from the stove. The ceiling and floor are about 80 - 82 degrees right around the stove but once you go 3 or more feet from the wall I cannot get temperatures above 72-73 even when my firebox is roaring with coals.
I am fairly confident that the blower is inadequate in my application and it could be that my basement just does not have good circulation. I feel that if more air was forced out in the room it would definitely heat my space better.
Does anyone know if there is a replacement blower that I can purchase that has more cfm that fits the stock housing?
The Enerzone stove in my opinion is fair. It definitely could not heat 2000 square feet even under the most optimal settings. I feel like my main problem is that the heat is not getting out far enough in the room to be incorporated into the natural air flow of the house. The blower air can only be felt about a max of 18 inches from the stove. The ceiling and floor are about 80 - 82 degrees right around the stove but once you go 3 or more feet from the wall I cannot get temperatures above 72-73 even when my firebox is roaring with coals.
I am fairly confident that the blower is inadequate in my application and it could be that my basement just does not have good circulation. I feel that if more air was forced out in the room it would definitely heat my space better.
Does anyone know if there is a replacement blower that I can purchase that has more cfm that fits the stock housing?
Above my insert, I usually keep a small fan blowing at mantel height (actually sitting on the mantel) to get that hot air that settles at the ceiling around the stove circulating -- helps a bit, makes it a little less uncomfortable around the stove when it's real hot -- I don't have ceiling fans or they would work prolly just as well if not better.
Actually I used the fan(s) more with my Century insert which didn't have as good a blower system as my new Summit. That was one of my main complaints about the blower on the Century -- couldn't feel it blowing very far away from the front.
Actually I used the fan(s) more with my Century insert which didn't have as good a blower system as my new Summit. That was one of my main complaints about the blower on the Century -- couldn't feel it blowing very far away from the front.
Been thinking about that myself. The hot top of the outer sheet metal jacket of my Summit insert. Wondering if it would hurt to put a layer of Roxul insulation on that and thereby get more of that heat back into the main heat duct and sent out into the house rather than heating the top of the fireplace cavity.
Am just not sure about possible negative effects to the Summit insert -- the inside of that top can get very hot 400
or so measured with my IR gun.Thanks for that post Dave. I am going to try a bunch of fans tonight and see if it circulates better and if the no air flow is my issue. I am trying to avoid having to put fans everywhere as that seems impractical and it can be quite loud and annoying.
I still cannot get the temps I was looking for and the temps I have said I am getting are with a heat pump set at 72 and there is vent cut in six feet from the stove. The thermostat is upstairs and the basement is usually 5 - 10 degrees cooler depending on the day so if the upstairs says 72 the downstairs may be 65 - 67 with no wood stove burning.
I am really torn with this stove and maybe my expectations were too high. I love how efficient the firebox is as it keeps heat really well and does not burn through wood like my old stove did. Now I just have to figure out why I can't transfer it out. I am sure people think I am crazy but I would think the stove would roast me out of basement if I had it running nonstop with a firebox 500+ degrees. Some have said the wood sucks, your burning it wrong, but come on -- its just a wood stove. You have a box that holds fire and produces heat and a blower which blows hot air so as long as you have heat in the firebox and the blower is on it should produce results that I feel would be great than I am getting. It may not be the most efficient way to burn wood and if you could see it in person there would be no denial that the heat is being poorly transferred out of the box.
I think a this point I need to either accept it as is or look for an alternative and work with the manufacturer and/or reseller. I have invested more time/money in this than it is worth at this point and wish I could undo. I wish I knew someone else you had the same or similar stove and could see theirs in action.
I still cannot get the temps I was looking for and the temps I have said I am getting are with a heat pump set at 72 and there is vent cut in six feet from the stove. The thermostat is upstairs and the basement is usually 5 - 10 degrees cooler depending on the day so if the upstairs says 72 the downstairs may be 65 - 67 with no wood stove burning.
I am really torn with this stove and maybe my expectations were too high. I love how efficient the firebox is as it keeps heat really well and does not burn through wood like my old stove did. Now I just have to figure out why I can't transfer it out. I am sure people think I am crazy but I would think the stove would roast me out of basement if I had it running nonstop with a firebox 500+ degrees. Some have said the wood sucks, your burning it wrong, but come on -- its just a wood stove. You have a box that holds fire and produces heat and a blower which blows hot air so as long as you have heat in the firebox and the blower is on it should produce results that I feel would be great than I am getting. It may not be the most efficient way to burn wood and if you could see it in person there would be no denial that the heat is being poorly transferred out of the box.
I think a this point I need to either accept it as is or look for an alternative and work with the manufacturer and/or reseller. I have invested more time/money in this than it is worth at this point and wish I could undo. I wish I knew someone else you had the same or similar stove and could see theirs in action.
fox9988
Minister of Fire
As FyreBug commented about the video, there isn't much wood in the firebox. It looks like it would hold three times as much. 3x the wood = 3x the heat.
Gee im glad i dont have an insert in my basement. My free standing stove makes the basement room its in about 95 deg and the rest of the basement about 85 WHole floor is 1000SF and not an ounce of insulation anywhere. Thats without any other source of heat.
Mines about 800 sq ft and No insulation and I can get to 80°-90° easily.
Yeah. Its just a wood stove. But Wood and Air matter a LOT. Wet wood and wide open air, will yield terrible results.
PLAYS WITH FIRE
Minister of Fire
Before I turned a pal of mine onto an epa insert he had a slammer install that had no blower. While it did ok in the living room about 11x20 or something, there no heat anywhere else. He had cylinder fan he used in is shop that he used to blow exhaust under the garage door. It was small but powerful and he used it close, maybe a few inches away, to blow the air at the stove. It was blowing where the blower should've been and would come out the top. That changed things drastically! So in my opinion I would try something like that..I know there is a blower but it doesn't seem to move the air. And load her up
Just for the nay sayers about the wood and not enough in there (that video was me for the first hour of burn just so people could see it is in no way indicative of what the norm for how my stove always looks). I typical have a couple of inches of deep worth of red coals in the entire stove and firebox cannot get any hotter -- do not base it on the video or pictures.
The firebox is so hot and full of coals I have trouble putting a round log and getting it situated before it ignites. Also since the coals are higher than the lip and my firebox is more east west than north south the log want to roll out. The wood is not split right for this stove but they are great what I call night time burners.
The firebox is so hot and full of coals I have trouble putting a round log and getting it situated before it ignites. Also since the coals are higher than the lip and my firebox is more east west than north south the log want to roll out. The wood is not split right for this stove but they are great what I call night time burners.
Fist thing you need is heat pouring off the stove like crazy, then you need to get it where you want it. If i didnt use several strong fans id have a 110 Deg basement stove room and next floor above would be 65. SInce im also heating a third floor i really need those fans.
PLAYS WITH FIRE
Minister of Fire
This is exactly what he used:
http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-blower-with-variable-speed-dial-93231.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-blower-with-variable-speed-dial-93231.html
I use 2 of the LASKO MAX fans, looks like about 2x the size of this Harbor freight model. Cost $65-90 low price from sams club. One behind the stove blowing air about 40 Ft to the other side of the basement,and one blowing
warm basement air up the the next floor. In addition my free standing stove has a built in blower that blows heat out the front.
PLAYS WITH FIRE
Minister of Fire
Probably as loud as bigger box fan on high maybe less, it is infinitely variable so that will help. But they small and blow real strong!
I cant hear em if thats what you mean. Not sure about the harbor freight ones,dont own one.
- Status
Similar threads
