New Wood Stove Insert (cannot heat basement past 70) Enerzone Destination 2.3i

[Oldhippie]

The hearth does go all the way up the wall and outside it is probably 30 feet high (from basement to the first floor to the attic) outside

I like Mellow's solution in his pic. Maybe he can pop back in and tell us how that worked out for him? I think you've got one massive heat sink there and it it is the path of least resistance for all of the heat. You put your hand on those bricks and they are hot. There's the proof right there. The problem is they act as poor radiators to push air out into the room.

The old stove you had protruded further into the room, if only a few inches, so it probably had the exact same problem, but had the benefit of a bit more radiation into the room.

The blower fans in the new stove aren't anything to write home about, but they should at least get the heat out into the rooms natural air currents.

 

[lopiliberty]

It burns normal. I am really hoping for user error or a bad blower but I do not have high hopes.​

Could you possibly post a video of it burning?

 

[mikedahammer]

Could you possibly post a video of it burning?

I can definitely do that but it might not be for a few days. I may not have time tonight since I work late hours.

 

[madison]

I am not an engineer. However, I know our guys. They have years of experience and sits on many boards (EPA, CSA, ASTM, UL etc...) so they are not throwing spaghetti at the wall here.... Being engineers they are, if you want a lengthy and totally incomprehensible answer from them I can get it... But suffice it to say they have the tests to back them up. And not just them... other MFG's will tell you the same thing. You tune your CFM to your unit.

BTW, the EPA certification is with the blower. If we change the blower the certification and efficiencies testing must be re-done from scratch. That's why it's important to match your blower to your unit and a fair bit of testing goes first into it.

Good point you raise about the marketing info for the CFM. I'll bring it up to our marketing's attention. Thanks for pointing it out.

I watched the video's and cant see anything wrong with the cfm output using the toilet paper.

Think about it for all of you who use the little whirly fans on top of your stoves. Many posts about those here with most people happy with what they do. However, do you feel a strong draft coming from those things? Yet, they still work dont they?

Thanks for the reply, but not totally convinced. And we may be arguing two different issues.

I agree that the blower may be "tuned" and tested, for efficiency and testing. But I disagree that the amount of heat removed (BTU's of heat) from a radiator (stove) decreases as the CFM of the blower increases.

Think of it this way, ,,, You live in Ontario, when you get in your vehicle to drive to work on a cold January morning, after the engine warms up, do you leave the blower off, or on low? If your wife says she's cold, and you turn the car heater blower DOWN and tell her that the car will get warmer faster that way , what will happen next?

Nonetheless, the 110 CFM one speed blower more than likely does not match what the "engineers" designed and tested for this unit - and what the company posts on its advertising materials.

 

[FyreBug]

I understand. I think we're talking about 2 different things. More air velocity will 'strip' more BTU from the unit. However, the combustion chamber is at its most efficient at a certain temperature. If you increase velocity you will cool down the unit too fast to maintain optimum peak efficiencies.

The same principles applies to furnaces. Improper static pressure in the plenum will allow the air to either flow too fast or too slow past the heat exchanger. Either way is not ideal. The system must be 'tuned' or balanced for optimum heat transfer. That's why furnaces with variable speed DC motors often have the best efficiencies since they self regulate depending on the temps in the plenum.

Also, from most consumers point of view they equate heat with air velocity. Consumers get impressed with Blowers at 230CFM while in practical terms running these at full speed might not get the most out of their units.

 

[weatherguy]

Your blower seems fine, mine blows about the same, as has been stated several times in this thread the problem is probably the heat sink theory, which can easily be fixed or wood, which can also easily be fixed. Just because it burned great in your other stove doesnt mean its ok for this stove, as someone mentioned this stove likes drier wood, I think he said 15%, you may find insulating behind the fireplace and above and letting your wood dry an extra year will solve all your problems.

 

[mikedahammer]

Here is video of my stove from the start up, mid way, and right before I closed it off for the night. There were less coals in there tonight than typical since the video was only over a 2 hour period and it was from a cold start. Best I could do last night with that time window.

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Next week I am having the chimney insulated so only time will tell. I hope that solves all the heat loss issue.

 

[oldspark]

"Think about it for all of you who use the little whirly fans on top of your stoves. Many posts about those here with most people happy with what they do. However, do you feel a strong draft coming from those things? Yet, they still work dont they? "
I think there are more posts from people who did not like them and sent them back.

 

[FyreBug]

Here is video of my stove from the start up, mid way, and right before I closed it off for the night. There were less coals in there tonight than typical since the video was only over a 2 hour period and it was from a cold start. Best I could do last night with that time window.

Based on the video, your start up procedure seems fine. But it looks as if you could put a lot more wood in there.

 

[FyreBug]

I think there are more posts from people who did not like them and sent them back.

I know the people at Caframo who manufacture those things. I too was skeptical but I was shown an independent lab test along with IR camera video of before and after using them. And they work! because air turbulence albeit small velocity help distribute heat.

However... the average consumers will not be satisfied unless it feels as if they are driving down the freeway in a convertible!

 

[etiger2007]

Based on the video, your start up procedure seems fine. But it looks as if you could put a lot more wood in there.

Bert how long does SBI think one should go in between re-loads with that stove?

 

[FyreBug]

Bert how long does SBI think one should go in between re-loads with that stove?

Not particularly a SBI or any particular MFG issue. Typically fire start up procedure to produce coals and get the firebox warmed up then load up the stove and let it burn down to a bed of coal before re-loading.

 

[etiger2007]

Here is video of my stove from the start up, mid way, and right before I closed it off for the night. There were less coals in there tonight than typical since the video was only over a 2 hour period and it was from a cold start. Best I could do last night with that time window.

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Next week I am having the chimney insulated so only time will tell. I hope that solves all the heat loss issue.

Just curious how are you closing the air down on your stove to get a longer burn? I have an Osburn 2000 insert and looking at how charred the wood looks and with how active your flames are could you be sending the heat right up the stack? Just to add, when I close mine down I generally close it in 1/4 increments, when Im done adjusting the air its about 10% open.

 

[mikedahammer]

Just curious how are you closing the air down on your stove to get a longer burn? I have an Osburn 2000 insert and looking at how charred the wood looks and with how active your flames are could you be sending the heat right up the stack? Just to add, when I close mine down I generally close it in 1/4 increments, when Im done adjusting the air its about 10% open.

I do about the same as you with the dampener (adjust it down slowly). I only had a two hour window last night so I was more aggressive with the burn. Normally I do not have those flames when I knock the dampener back. I just wanted to get it stoked up as quickly as possible for the video. Also, I know I am sending all the heat out the flu that is why I am trying to figure it out. My installer is going to be putting in the insulation and lowering the block off plate on Wednesday. Hopefully that is all that is needed.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Buy a IR gun from HD. Lowes or HF and also a magnetic thermo. It looks to be difficult to place the thermo but this will give a ball park if you are burning hot enough. I got a Ryobi IR from Home Depot for 39 bux or something. I used it to find the hottest spot to place the thermo. For me because my insert is flush for the moment and very similar situation to yours I burn with the top plate off like you showed in the video. However my blower will make the toilet paper curl back on itself.

And as othes have said, stuff that stove full to get things warmed up!

My process:
1.load full with alot of flames

2.damper down a little till flames are lazy

3.the fire catches up with alot of flames and some secondary action

4.damper down a bit till lazy and more secondary action

5.damper about closed lazy to little flame on the wood and crazy secondary action at about 550 degree to 650 degrees.

7. let it go till 200-300 degrees and repeat

All in all from a cold start it takes about 20-45 minutes

 

[Woody Stover]

2.damper down a little till flames are lazy

3.the fire catches up with alot of flames and some secondary action

4.damper down a bit till lazy and more secondary action

Maybe just because he was rushing the fire for the video and had big flame in the box, but I don't see much secondary action off the burn tubes there...

 

[mikedahammer]

Can someone send me a link to the secondary action from the burn tubes. Not sure what that means or should look like.....googled it....

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If that is what it should do then I am pretty sure i have never seen that in my stove (not yet at least).

 

[Ansky]

Can someone send me a link to the secondary action from the burn tubes. Not sure what that means or should look like.....googled it....

If that is what it should do then I am pretty sure i have never seen that in my stove (not yet at least).

Wow. That's pretty cool. I've only gotten those secondary burns once in a while from my stove. And thats when the stove is really hot and i have a lot of coals. but even when i do get them, they dont look like that. Mine only come from the back tube. Never from the front tube. I think my problem is wood that isn't dry enough.

That's pretty cool, though. Now I have something to work towards.

 

[jeff_t]

If you aren't getting any secondary action at the top of the firebox, you should definitely consider your fuel supply. As a hot fire is established with the primary air open, you should be cutting the primary air back. Secondary combustion air will then be drawn in thru the tubes in the top, thru a different inlet than the primary air. That secondary air is preheated, and mixes with the superheated gasses at the top of the firebox. It should look like little jets of flame coming out if those holes, not unlike a gas grill.

Wood that isn't sufficiently dry won't burn at a temperature hot enough to sustain that secondary combustion without more primary air. Wood that is tightly stacked on a covered porch may not be as dry as you think.

Another thought is to check the baffle above the burn tubes. I'm not sure how the Enerzone is, but on other stoves that baffle can get knocked out of position and allow gasses to go straight up the flue, instead of staying in the firebox longer to get completely burned.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

Yes that's the ticket! But really knowing what temps you are at are very important and number one is wood.

Can someone send me a link to the secondary action from the burn tubes. Not sure what that means or should look like.....googled it....

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If that is what it should do then I am pretty sure i have never seen that in my stove (not yet at least).

 

[lopiliberty]

Can someone send me a link to the secondary action from the burn tubes. Not sure what that means or should look like.....googled it....

If that is what it should do then I am pretty sure i have never seen that in my stove (not yet at least).

Yes it should look like this or pretty close to it. That is where 90 percent of your heat comes from.

 

[lopiliberty]

Try loading it pretty full but leave about 2 inches from the wood to the air tubes get is going good start cutting back the air in stages and see what happens. It there is still little or no secondary action then it is like already stated it has to be the wood

 

[mellow]

The link in my signature shows how I did mine: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/

I did mine because I have an external masonry fireplace and was loosing heat to the outside, it works great. I would only recommend using Roxul.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

I bought my house a little over a year ago (built in the 70's) and it had a timberline wood stove. The stove did not have a blower on it and was, so I thought, very inefficient as I could only heat the basement to about 70-72 degrees. I could only get those temps when the stove was piping hot and with a fan pointed at the wood stove to help reverberate the air to another fan blowing it out into the room.

I looked a long time at stoves and wanted something a little more modern but still could produce heat so I bought the enerzone destination 2.3i. It looks great but the stove does a very poor job heating. The stove itself is hot and blowing hot air but it does not seem to heat the basement but I cannot get a temp higer than 70 and that is even with a heat pump running at 70-72. I am stumped.

I broke the stove in slowly so I am just wondering if anyone has ever come across this or has ideas. I grew up with a wood stove as a kid and it used to heat our whole house.

The basement is finished if that makes a difference. Also, the basement is about 1,200 square feet and the main room is probably 500 square feet where the stove is. The stove was professionally installed and my chimney does have a liner.

It seems like the stove heats the masonry brick but not the house.

Nothing like pissing away $3K - 3.5K.

Back to original topic. You may need to cheat till you. Figure it out
I have the same problem with my new montpelier insert. I try to take a cold room from 59 to 70 something and cannot achieve it. I only can get to 68 on a cold windy day in an older style home with lots of windows. I know my issues but a temporary fix or cheat for me is to use my heat to get the room to 65 and then let the insert take over. I then can easily get up to 76 .

I recommend to you that you use 2 space heaters to warm the basement up a bit then keep the insert stoked and burning. The temporary supplemental heat really makes a big difference for me. I hate to do it but it works. I'm still working on my issues to try and correct my problem.

 

[Ansky]

The link in my signature shows how I did mine: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/

I did mine because I have an external masonry fireplace and was loosing heat to the outside, it works great. I would only recommend using Roxul.

Shouldn't this only be done when you have enough room between your stove and the brick? I built my block off plate a few weeks ago and I have a lot of Roxul leftover, but I don't have a lot of room between the brick and the insert. I think I read on this forum somewhere that the Roxul shouldn't touch the insert because you'd be heating the unit more than it was intended to be heated and may damage it.

I have an outside chimney too, and and in don't want to lose heat to the outside, but I also don't want to damage the unit either.