New Pacific Energy Newcastle leaking air in door

[Sprinter]

Am I not supposed to run this stove in the 60 degree outside temp. What should I check on the stove first.

I've been doing small morning loads recently under those conditions with no apparent draft or glass problems. Yes, I can tell the draft is a little slow to get going, but no problems and the secondaries light within about 10 minutes. My stack is under 13 ft. Most of my wood is around 20% but the best I can get is 17% with light softwood that has been split under cover for a couple years.

I have had mediocre success with 25% wood the first year with some window staining in the corners, but that is about the limit. Much over that, I would start to get your symptoms regardless of draft conditions. FWIW, one time early on, I was running out of my best wood, so I would get a good fire going with a good coal bed, then put a chunk of 30% wood on top of that. Not very efficient, but it worked and stretched my supply.

I would think that if your wood was so bad as to cause this much problem, you would see some sizzling or foaming out the ends of the splits. For me, that started to happen around 30%. Do you notice anything like that?

Poor draft can certainly make small problems worse, though. How tall is your flue from stovetop to cap?

 

[troy-pit]

I got 15 ft from stovetop to top of stovepipe. My wood all measures less than 15%. It has been in hot garage all summer and supposedly cured before that. Checked the calibration on my meter and it is good. Went out in backyard and measured some wood that is indeed 30 plus percent but that is next years wood.

I am wondering about the seal on top of the stove flue adapter to stovepipe. There is definitely not a good seal there and will this cause problems. I never installed a stovetop flue adapter because stovepipe fit on top of flue adapter.

Will light another fire with the advice given and give it another shot tonight.

 

[ccmac]

The stovepipe adaptor does not need to be sealed air tight. It merely wedges into the top of your stove then should have 3 stainless screws.

 

[Sprinter]

What happens if you leave the door open for a while or at least a crack? Do things liven up then? Do you have an outside air kit? Starting to wonder about the air intake or maybe the stove's air control.

15 feet of flue should allow adequate draft. Kind of wondering about that whistling sound, too. I've never heard that before.

I'm not sure about your model PE but some models have a cover over the air intake that you close up when you have an OAK outside air kit to block room air. If you do not have an OAK and this cover is still shut, you will not get any air in. Just thinking out loud.

 

[troy-pit]

The stove had a 4 inch round hole on bottom and that is where I put my outside air kit adapter and there is a short 2 foot length of tube going directly to the outside. No cover or nothing to suggest that this this is not the only place where air is meant to enter. Ya when I open the door the stove gets lively but eventually I have to close the door. I am going to try to keep a flame at all times now but I see that the glass is already starting to smoke up a little.

 

[Sprinter]

Well, if the OAK intake is okay and with no obstructions, and if the fire gets going well with the door open a little, I'm thinking in terms of the stove's air control or similar problem. If it is drawing well with the door cracked, that would indicate the draft is adequate but the stove is starving for air. Not sure where to go from there. It may be time to get your installer/dealer out there. I think it needs a hands-on look.

Edit question: when you crack the door open, do you get a lot of smoke out from it? If not, it would seem to me that the draft is adequate except for the air intake.

 

[Sprinter]

Another thought. If your OAK takes air from outside on the side of the house, there can be circumstances where pressure differences can cause a problem like this from atmospheric conditions, even a light breeze. Is there anyway that you can take air from a sheltered area like in a crawlspace or otherwise shelter the intake?

As a test, would it be possible to remove the OAK and allow air in from the room?

 

[troy-pit]

Well I did a fire last night and seemed like the stove is finally operating the way it should. Probably the reason is it was the coldest night yet. There was a rip roaring fire with rip roaring secondary burns that continued even with the stove turned down all the way. Glass still got dirty on both sides but not as bad as before. Now I am considering plugging up the cold air intake hole which I have read here has helped a lot of people with their dirty glass problems. Probably would get a longer burn time too. The cold air intake hole is right next to where the stove main intake is and keeps a certain amount of air into the stove even with the stove turned all the way down. Any pro's / con's to closing up this cold air intake.

 

[begreen]

Good to hear there's progress. Assuming the wood is ok, the issue sounds directly draft related. If so, your stove performance will improve as temperatures lower. Is the flue 6" straight up inside the house or another configuration?

FWIW I don't think blocking the OAK will make a difference. Outside temp and/or adding a length to the chimney will have a bigger effect. How is the seal at the flue collar, loose or snug?

 

[troy-pit]

There seal around the flue collar is kind of loose so that was one thing I was thinking about. I am not considering blocking off the oak but rather there is a hole next to where the adjustable air goes in that allows for air to always be available to get into the stove. I read here where some other people with the pacific energy neo where doing this with success to keep the glass clean. I read that you begreen also sealed off this hole to make your particular stove work better. I got 15 ft straight up 6 inch icc excel. Definitely temp related as the fire was not as good last night and the temperature was not as cold as previous. Just now it is a hassle to clean the glass everyday before firing up the stove. Thanks for all the help.

 

[begreen]

Our stove design is quite different than the Neo's. It has the first generation EBT which regulated the primary boost air at the base of the fire with a thermostatic valve. The newer PE design is much better. It regulates the secondary air with a barometric damper. I wouldn't close that off. Instead I would add a length of chimney pipe and a brace. That can make a very nice difference.

 

[Sprinter]

Hard to believe that he would need over 15', but whatever it takes, I guess. I know nothing about the Neo line, but my 13' is enough for the 27 even in these moderate temps. Maybe you could temporarily add some inexpensive stove pipe length just to see if makes a difference? Is that a reasonable option, guys?

 

[begreen]

Local topography and chimney location plus house pressure can affect draft. In fair and calm weather I would pull the cap and jam in a 3-4' length of cheap 6" stove pipe or warm air duct. Then test the stove. If there's a notable improvement then consider adding chimney pipe or wait until it's colder to burn. The difference in draft between 50F and 40F is notable.

 

[troy-pit]

The hole I was thinking of blocking off was referred to in this thread.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-pacific-energy-neo-2-5.137259/page-3

Not sure what it is called and how it works but seems like it has helped some people out with their neo stoves.

 

[begreen]

Ah, ok. That is at the front of the stove for the boost air. Normally that would help weak draft starts but it won't hurt to try temporarily blocking it to see if it helps keep the glass cleaner.

The next few days are going to have some strong winds. That may skew the results.

 

[Sprinter]

The next few days are going to have some strong winds. That may skew the results.

I would guess that a horizontal wind would stimulate the draft with a low pressure at the top. Is that your experience? Personally, I've never really paid much attention, but never had a problem.

 

[begreen]

It depends on local geography and the chimney location.

 

[skinanbones]

As far as know all probe thermometer are made by the same company and just labeled differently.
As for what it's going to tell you, is wether or not your in the optimal burn range. With a probe thermometer a P.E. stove,when run right will be in the 600-800 range with large bright secondairy flame showing in the box with the air shut most of the way down.

 

[begreen]

As far as know all probe thermometer are made by the same company and just labeled differently.

I'm not sure that is correct. Condar probe thermometers are distinctly different. The SBI/Morso/Volgelzang thermometers do have a strong resemblance to each other.

Your flue temps are hotter than our probe flue temps which usually run about 100-150F below stove top temperature. The only time they are higher is on startup.

 

[Hogwildz]

I took the stove apart and cleaned out the firebox. I noticed that the top section where the secondary flames go there is a fiberglass mes like material on top that is mostly covered by a piece of metal. It seems like the fiberglass mesh is not really secured and there is a gap on one side that is larger than the other. Don't know if this really matters or what this is for. I am also trying to understand how the glass wash works but could not really figure it out. Put back together the stove and cleaned the glass of coarse and try and see what happens. It is a little colder tonight but still seeing the glass brown up. I will include a couple pictures of the taken apart stove.View attachment 185339 View attachment 185340 View attachment 185341

I am a little behind here, but just saw the photos you posted. The one of the inner ceiling of the stove is a definite indicator the wood was either too moist, &/or you're not burning hot enough. The top of the stove is the hottest area, and that glaze of gooey creo is a def sign of not burning hot enough. That should not be there. Burn hotter and that will be gone, and the door glass will stay cleaner.

 

[troy-pit]

I am a little confused now. I had the best burn when the temperature outside was the lowest. How do I get a hotter burn. I am sure that my wood is dry enough. I guess I will order the thermometer mentioned in previous post here: http://www.condar.com/Stovetop_Thermometers.html. In the meantime how do I get hotter burns. I run the stove hot for an hour and then turn it midway and still not seeing the good secondary burns where the flames shoot out the holes on the top. Does more draft from colder temperatures actually make the stove hotter and get good secondary burns. Does there have to be a certain draft to get these secondary burns. Stove top seems as hot as can be now. Currently running stove with 55 degrees outside and flame seems good but no secondary burns. Also should I not use the blower fan until I get good secondary burns. I will post a picture of the burn now.

 

[iceman2424]

I am a little confused now. I had the best burn when the temperature outside was the lowest. How do I get a hotter burn. I am sure that my wood is dry enough. I guess I will order the thermometer mentioned in previous post here: http://www.condar.com/Stovetop_Thermometers.html. In the meantime how do I get hotter burns. I run the stove hot for an hour and then turn it midway and still not seeing the good secondary burns where the flames shoot out the holes on the top. Does more draft from colder temperatures actually make the stove hotter and get good secondary burns. Does there have to be a certain draft to get these secondary burns. Stove top seems as hot as can be now. Currently running stove with 55 degrees outside and flame seems good but no secondary burns. Also should I not use the blower fan until I get good secondary burns. I will post a picture of the burn now.

Not enough wood in there? Give it some fuel - add a few small to medium splits and let it rip!

 

[Sprinter]

I run the stove hot for an hour and then turn it midway and still not seeing the good secondary burns where the flames shoot out the holes on the top. Does more draft from colder temperatures actually make the stove hotter and get good secondary burns.

But what is "hot"? Without a proper thermometer, you're just guessing. Actually, visible signs of secondary burning in the firebox or no visible smoke from the chimney is a more reliable indicator of when and how to adjust the air control. Also important is a flue thermometer. Maybe even more important than a stove top thermometer. Flue temperature is your "engine".

Any well built fire with good wood would get plenty hot enough to stimulate good draft well before an hour and generate good secondary action, IMO.

Yes your draft is driven by pressure differential which is largely due to temperature differential. The coldness of the combustion air isn't important to the fire, outside of the draft contribution.

Yes, until you get this resolved, the fan is just cooling your stove down that much more. You should be able to use it after the stove top gets to a certain temp and the burn is stable. But wait until you figure out what's wrong. In fact, that may be contributing. Many of us don't use a blower at all on our stoves depending on whether you prefer the air being heated by the fan or the radiant heat feel. That is a personal preference.

Meanwhile, I agree that you might want to wait until the outside temps go down for enough days to help establish a dependable pattern before doing much more than kill the fan. I think it would help establish the draft contribution.

Edit: I agree with Iceman above that it doesn't look like a whole lot of wood unless it's just burned down before the pic. Have you tried a decent load of smaller splits as suggested earlier? Try a load of smaller splits boy-scout style criss-cross about 3/4 full.

 

[troy-pit]

How can I measure flue temperature. What device should I use and how do I hook it up to the stove. The stove is smoking like crazy with no secondary's so definitely not operating like it should.

 

[Hogwildz]

I am a little confused now. I had the best burn when the temperature outside was the lowest. How do I get a hotter burn. I am sure that my wood is dry enough. I guess I will order the thermometer mentioned in previous post here: http://www.condar.com/Stovetop_Thermometers.html. In the meantime how do I get hotter burns. I run the stove hot for an hour and then turn it midway and still not seeing the good secondary burns where the flames shoot out the holes on the top. Does more draft from colder temperatures actually make the stove hotter and get good secondary burns. Does there have to be a certain draft to get these secondary burns. Stove top seems as hot as can be now. Currently running stove with 55 degrees outside and flame seems good but no secondary burns. Also should I not use the blower fan until I get good secondary burns. I will post a picture of the burn now.

As the outside temps get lower, it will burn better. First off, if you running the stove for an hour at wide open air, (unless it is from a cold start)your letting more heat go up the stack, and not going to get the secondary burn as well as at lower air settings. Try setting the air down in stages, full to get it going well, then 3/4 to 1/2 for another 15 or so, then I would say minimal is at least 3/4 closed.

For instance, I get it ripping,( from cold start depending on wood, etc, anywhere from 20-30 minutes to 45 mins an hour, then cut air back, for me gradually till full low) then go to 1/2 closed for another 10- 15 minutes, then, in my case, I close it all the way to full low. On a reload with coals, more like 15 mins, then 1/2, 5-10 mins to full low).

After that the secondaries are full bore, you may even some flame jets from the front lower boost manifold holes. The temp at that point raises on it's own and levels out anywhere from 650-750. Burning at 1/2 open air is letting more heat up and out, actually bypassing the secondaries some. The key is, to get it hot, and then cut the air down as far as you can, yet not smoulder it. You will have to experiment until you get quite a few burns under your belt, with your stove in your setup in your home.

For years I honed how I burnt, sizes, species, air settings, and went from loading 3x a day, every 8 hours, to loading 2x a day, every 12 hours. The first year is the learning year. The next year and several following, you will hone your skills and knowledge of your stove, skills and habits, wood etc, and you will be amazed at how instinctive it comes, and how much less wood you burn, all the while getting more heat from the same loads, but with better skills.

A thermo is merely a reference. After a while you will rely less on the thermo, and more on instinct and visual of the burn stages.
The only time the stove should smoke is when you first start a cold start, or relaod. If it smokes after that, you're not burning hot enough. Load size really doesn't matter(accept on cold starts), burn temp does. Small load or large load, it will reach same temps, maybe slightly less, but merely burning less longer for smaller loads.

If you see "white" smoke out of the stack, especially when it is really frigid outside, that is only steam, and normal. After a while you should see only wavy clear flow out of the stack, that is optimal, clean burn.
The trick is, to get the stove burning without smouldering, with the air set as low as possible. Less air open, = more heat to home, and less up the stack, and a cleaner, longer, more efficient burn.

Don't stress yourself out, it will come to you with each subsequent burn.
You have many good folks for resources here, never be afraid to ask questions. We all did, and still do. Make it something to enjoy, not stress you out.