New member,new stove and new Runaway...super 27

[eastcoastcanada]

That would be awesome if you did that! I will see if I can figure out how to post a picture off my iphone here...
I know they made changes to the baffles and the door apparently seals tighter than the old stoves.

It might be tomorrow now, it's just about 3 pm now and the PE dealer hasn't called me back to see if they got it out of the warehouse. I'll try and post photos as soon as I get it.

 

[Squisher]

The other thing to verify is that you got the proper size and type of gasket for the door. I've only used OEM PE replacement gaskets so far.

 

[begreen]

Yep I think you're right. I still shake my head though that these stoves are more focused on smoke elimination then safety. When It was runing away on me I popped that bottom cover off and pluged the intake with my welding glove. It slowed it down quite a bit but still not enough plus was too hot to hold the glove there. What I didn't see was the other 1/2" hole in front of the linkage ( that can't be closed at all) as well there's an opening at the very back of the stove that ( i think) stays open slightly as well although it's hard to tell. Either way that's two openings plus the possible 3rd at the back plus door might not be sealing as tight as it should.
I'm optomistic I will regain confidence in this stove soon.

The PE doors don't seal bill-rippingly tight. If there is tension on the bill as it's being pulled out, it is probably ok. If not, then it could need tightening.

Agreed on the factory gasket. PE use a higher density gasket than the typical Rutland or hardware store gasket.

 

[Squisher]

Thanks for clarification Begreen. I haven't tore a bill but mine seem pretty tight even with a fairly light 'latch' on my summit. I always check a customers gasket and how their door 'latches' but I don't ever whip out a bill and start yanking and whatnot.

I also was thinking about this thread and a 25 year(ish) old stove here too. So if it hasn't the whole thing should be verified for tightness.

 

[begreen]

I just checked our stove with the new gasket installed yesterday. It's pretty tight too. Tighter than I recall when I first got the stove, but this is a non-PE gasket that I had to get quickly. It seems a bit harder than PE's gasket material.

For sure with an old stove the gasket has been replaced multiple times. The current gasket could be shot and non-factory.

 

[jeff_t]

I'm curious just how much fire there was 45 minutes in when you added more wood. It may have been as simple as adding wood to too much fire.

My stove is also a D series. I've never had any issue controlling it.

I did replace the door handle. It's not that straightforward, as the replacement is an 'updated' version, and requires drilling the threaded hole that part of the hold handle screws into, and there isn't much metal in that part of the door. The new one is about as sloppy as the old one. The gasket seals tight, though.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

Yep I think you're right. I still shake my head though that these stoves are more focused on smoke elimination then safety.

In your initial post you say that you loaded more dry spruce and 2x4's onto a hot coal bed and you question the air intake as not being safe and leading to an overfire. It's just my opinion but loading dry spruce and 2x4's onto a hot coal bed would probably come close to overfiring any tube stove. You essentially filled your stove with kindling. As far as spraying water, that's likely one of the worst things you could do. All that water vapor will rapidly condense in your chimney causing creosote and you also run the risk of steam burns to yourself.

 

[EPA RUNAWAY]

In your initial post you say that you loaded more dry spruce and 2x4's onto a hot coal bed and you question the air intake as not being safe and leading to an overfire. It's just my opinion but loading dry spruce and 2x4's onto a hot coal bed would probably come close to overfiring any tube stove. You essentially filled your stove with kindling. As far as spraying water, that's likely one of the worst things you could do. All that water vapor will rapidly condense in your chimney causing creosote and you also run the risk of steam burns to yourself.

Look all I did was put two 2 x 4's on top of a mixture of regular Firewood and I think maybe there was two more 4 or 5 inch pieces of 2 x 4 that were in there as well the rest was just regular wood. Plus it wasn't like the firebox was jampacked it was still room to stuff more wood in. I'm no stranger to wood stoves or fireplaces this thing took off more than any stove I've ever used in the 20 years of messing with wood stoves.
As far as spraying the fire with water what else am I to do? It wasn't a crazy runaway where my chimney pipe was red hot or anything like that I was just trying to stop it before it became that. If I was taking a bucket of water and dumping it on the fire I could see a whole pile of steam but there wasn't a whole pile of steam coming off the fire with my spray bottle it was just enough to knock down the fire a little.
Getting a steam burn was NOT going to happen LOL. Again maybe if a whole bucket of water was fired into the stove you could get a steam burn but I guarantee you there's no possible way for me to get a steam burn off of a spray bottle when my hand is a good foot away from the opening of the door when I'm spraying. Regardless that's not the issue here the issue here is why is my stove running away on me and that's what I'm trying to find out.

 

[begreen]

Normally I would only burn construction scrap to start a fire or perhaps mixed in with poorly seasoned wood to get it burning. It takes a vigilant eye and shutting down the air early, all the way, so that it doesn't runaway. Many stove manuals say burn firewood only. The main thing to know here is that the air does not close off completely when shut down. A small amount of air is allowed in to prevent the fire from smoldering.

 

[EPA RUNAWAY]

The other thing to verify is that you got the proper size and type of gasket for the door. I've only used OEM PE replacement gaskets so far.

For the window glass I used a PE gasket but for the door I used one I picked up at Canadian Tire. "imperial" brand I think??

The gasket was a 5/8" I believe. I remember when I ordered the baffle insulation kit and the window gasket from my woodstove store the guy told me the gasket was a 1/2 gasket I believe or something like that but I already had bought this gasket kit and I'm pretty sure it was a 5/8" and he said that should work as well as long as it fits the groove well. The gasket I installed seems to fit very well. I can see a slight groove or a line where it seals. My doorhandle definitely feel sloppy though and I can't see it coming from the factory like that I'm sure it's worn from 25 or 30 years of use.
If I push the door in tight before latching it I can see about a 1/16" from where the doorlatch would wedge to close it and that seems to loose to me I'm pretty sure it's because of the wear on the doorhandle shaft.
Somebody was saying that they have an update kit for that doorhandle now and you have to drill it and that makes sense to me because even if you have a brand-new door handle that doesn't change that where on the inside of the sleeve so they probably just drill it out and put a bigger shaft in there makes sense to me and good for another 20 years.
I think I'm going to just remove this door handle for the two seconds it takes and I'm gonna go and weld the shaft up on it and machine it down so it fits tight and then we'll see how the door shuts then

 

[EPA RUNAWAY]

Normally I would only burn construction scrap to start a fire or perhaps mixed in with poorly seasoned wood to get it burning. It takes a vigilant eye and shutting down the air early, all the way, so that it doesn't runaway. Many stove manuals say burn firewood only. The main thing to know here is that the air does not close off completely when shut down. A small amount of air is allowed in to prevent the fire from smoldering.

You bet. And actually the reason why I put the 2 x 4's in the first place was because the wood I had all though seasoned was kind of old crappy wood to start with and I didn't want to smoke my neighbours out so I thought if I just threw a few sticks of 2 x 4's in that would balance it out. I think people are reading this and they're getting the impression that the whole fire box was filled with dried 2x4's and that is not the case at all. I simply put a couple of 2 x 4's in there to just balance out the smoke factor from the crappy or would that was in the fire box.
I still think I'm going to grind a little notch out so that I can shut the air off completely or at least 90% of the air so at least if I ever have a runaway again I have a half a chance of knocking it down faster. I'll never damper it down that much it would strictly be use for an emergency case and you can still get air from another hole that doesn't have anything to seal it.
I'm not into having me or my house burn down because the EPA doesn't want any smoke into the air... Lol

My opinion is even if I loaded the whole fire box with 2 x 4's you should still be able to damper that stove down by choking off the air supply.

 

[EPA RUNAWAY]

I'm curious just how much fire there was 45 minutes in when you added more wood. It may have been as simple as adding wood to too much fire.

My stove is also a D series. I've never had any issue controlling it.

I did replace the door handle. It's not that straightforward, as the replacement is an 'updated' version, and requires drilling the threaded hole that part of the hold handle screws into, and there isn't much metal in that part of the door. The new one is about as sloppy as the old one. The gasket seals tight, though.

How tall is your chimney? Any bends in it?

And how sloppy is your handle? My door handle right now ( with door open) can move at least 3/8".
It's pretty worn and i'm sure some air was being sucked in through there as well.

 

[MDWOOD]

Hey guys I have a question about the door gasket on a PE.
My stove just a few weeks old and i noticed that the gasket was way different then what i was used to.
The gasket on the new stove is very flat I'd say somewhere around 1/8-1/4 thickness
does this sound normal. i can press on the door frame and the door moves in toward the stove.


Bill

 

[Squisher]

That doesn't sound normal to me. When you push in on the door and it moves how does that affect the door handle is it loose? I'd be surprised if the wrong gasket was on a brand new door. But it wouldn't surprise me if a door/latch needed some final adjustment, like I mentioned earlier of tapping the latch catch to make it tighter.

To the OP. The looseness of the door handle itself will not allow air into the stove through the hole in the door as the hole the handle passes through is on the outside of the seal.

 

[Woody Stover]

For the window glass I used a PE gasket but for the door I used one I picked up at Canadian Tire. "imperial" brand I think??

I doubt it's the main problem here, but I would replace the door gasket with an OEM from PE. It will have the correct density for that particular application. I've heard Hogwildz mention the "knife-edge" that the gasket seals against...I'd be leery of putting a non-OEM in there.

 

[eastcoastcanada]

That would be awesome if you did that! I will see if I can figure out how to post a picture off my iphone here...
I know they made changes to the baffles and the door apparently seals tighter than the old stoves.

Sorry for the wait, hope this helps.

 

[begreen]

My opinion is even if I loaded the whole fire box with 2 x 4's you should still be able to damper that stove down by choking off the air supply.

That is not how it works.

I doubt it's the main problem here, but I would replace the door gasket with an OEM from PE. It will have the correct density for that particular application. I've heard Hogwildz mention the "knife-edge" that the gasket seals against...I'd be leery of putting a non-OEM in there.

I second that opinion. 5/8" should be correct for the older version of this stove. 7/8" on the newest models. Tom is the expert for all things PE if you have questions.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pacific-energy-stove-gasket.53683/#post-673421

 

[burninwood]

Hi EPA RUNAWAY,

I too had trouble with my PE stove (smaller Vista) and fires that I had no control over (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/wild-secondary-burn-control-options.158323/). I checked/replaced all the obvious such as door gasket, window gasket, smoke test for leaks, tried turning down air early, installed a key damper etc. Nothing worked until I went out and bought two 3/8 x 7/8 inch magnets from Home Hardware. Blocking off the secondary air intake by half, along with blocking the primary intake just a tad more than the factory stopper would allow, I now have total control of the stove, I get way more heat out of it since I'm not dumping it out the chimney, and I don't churn through would like before. I should probably post this in my thread for others' future benefit. It was suggested that I bend the tab stop for the primary intake so it would close more, however, I wan't comfortable doing this for fear of insurance issues...If the Super 27 has a linked secondary control, I guess you can't really do anything there. I truly needed the two separate block offs to gain any control off my stove.

I see a ton of suggestions on here for turning down the air earlier, or installing dampers. For some, this may work, but in my case (and others I sure), these suggestions just did not cut it.

Good luck

 

[eastcoastcanada]

That is not how it works.

I second that opinion. 5/8" should be correct for the older version of this stove. 7/8" on the newest models. Tom is the expert for all things PE if you have questions.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pacific-energy-stove-gasket.53683/#post-673421

Here is the gasket on the super 27 I just picked up today. It's the largest gasket I've ever seen on a stove and the fact that it seals on a 1/8" 'knife' edge is puzzling but it's engineered that way for a reason.

 

[begreen]

Here is the gasket on the super 27 I just picked up today. It's the largest gasket I've ever seen on a stove and the fact that it seals on a 1/8" 'knife' edge is puzzling but it's engineered that way for a reason.

Yes, these stoves evolve over time. The Summit has the same arrangement.

 

[Sprinter]

Here is the gasket on the super 27 I just picked up today. It's the largest gasket I've ever seen on a stove and the fact that it seals on a 1/8" 'knife' edge is puzzling but it's engineered that way for a reason.

Exact same gasket and edge as my 4+ year old 27. You can see a shallow dimple around it, but looks like it will last a good long time yet. I've made it a habit to close the door pretty gently to avoid any undue wear and it still seals well. I see no reason to crunch it closed, not that I've heard of that being done here. But I've seen a friend or two close their doors way too hard.

But for sure, I'm going to order some OEM materials from my dealer to have on hand and made for my model.

 

[Squisher]

Just this fall when I redid my new to me super insert I put a new PE door gasket on and just stuck it on with the adhesive that comes on it. Peeled the tape and plunked it on. Seems secure so far but I guess time will tell if that was folly or not?

 

[EPA RUNAWAY]

That doesn't sound normal to me. When you push in on the door and it moves how does that affect the door handle is it loose? I'd be surprised if the wrong gasket was on a brand new door. But it wouldn't surprise me if a door/latch needed some final adjustment, like I mentioned earlier of tapping the latch catch to make it tighter.

To the OP. The looseness of the door handle itself will not allow air into the stove through the hole in the door as the hole the handle passes through is on the outside of the seal.

Ha yes! If I'd have thought about that before I suggested it I would have realized it. Good call. I wasn't able to move the handle but I was able to tighten it up a bit.

 

[EPA RUNAWAY]

I doubt it's the main problem here, but I would replace the door gasket with an OEM from PE. It will have the correct density for that particular application. I've heard Hogwildz mention the "knife-edge" that the gasket seals against...I'd be leery of putting a non-OEM in there.

I think you're right. I will still order up the stock PE door gasket just to be safe. Try to eliminate that issue.

 

[EPA RUNAWAY]

UPDATE.

Ok thanks for all the reply's people! Much appreciated.
So my first thing I did was try to toghten the door handle. It took no effort at all to open the latch.
I tried to pull it right out but it won't come out without damaging something.
I just wraped some haywire around the part that wedges onto the fixed latch on the stove and it's nice and tight now.
I did the 20 dollar bill test and it was much tighter but it will still pullout. Like someone mentioned though these new $20 bills are very thin.

So I never messed with the air intake at all I just left it as is then I put some kindling in and intentionally made it so that it would smoke quite a bit so I could check for leaks. Sure enough smoke was coming out from around the door. ( has anyone tried this test and should it Seal 100%)?

I decided to try to have a little fire and see what I could find out about this stove with just using regular wood and absolutely no 2 x 4's.
Well after two nights of having the stove going,one thing I can tell you is that I promised myself I will never be without wood heat ever again so long as I'm living in this cold climate here in Canada lol.

Unbelievable difference in the comfort of my home now.
What I found out was that these new EPA stoves are nothing like the old smoke dragon stoves but I will say I feel safer in an emergency with an older stove being as how I can shut it down. However that door gasket leaking that little bit could be the determining factor and I will not know the answer until I replace it but the stove is working just fine now and I'm getting decent burn times.
I can load the stove so it's about 75% full not jamed pack full, and it seems to be controllable with the air damper however I can't always get it to die down as much as I would like. Is that a little bit around the door enough to make it do this? Again I guess I'll have that answer once I change the door gasket but for now the stove is working just fine the way it is.
I have been watching it like a hawk and taking notes etc until I find out every little detail about how it works, every stove seems to be different.

So I have a couple questions, first is it OK to put a chimney damper in or is this frowned upon with these new EPA stoves? I'd still like to be able to snuff out the fire if I have to and I would think a damper would help do that.
Also I have googled and searched this form and looked all over and it seems to be really hard to find a straight answer on double wall pipe temperatures with a laser heat gun.
I will get a probe or some kind of a gauge to check the pipe temperature but for now all I have is the lazer gun. Of course depending on how close he hold a gun to the pipe the temperatures change so I just have the end of the gun about A foot away from what i'm testing. It only goes up to 606F.
At 18" above the stove top i'm seeing around 325-400F when the stove is going pretty good. From what I've been able to read you basically double that temperature and then add a little bit more so my actual inner pipe temperature at 18 inches above the surface would be around 650 to 800F. Is this somewhat accurate?
The highest temperature reading seems to be right where it enters the chimney pipe and I'm wondering if somebody can tell me what that temperature should be or if it's irrelevant as long as I measuring at the 18 inch Mark.
The reason why I measure at 18 inches is because that's where I read where people are installing their probes.
The top of the stove seems to get around 600°F or a little higher so again if somebody can tell me what the approximate temperature should be there that would be good. I have just been leaving it turned down low to med without having any smoke coming out of my chimney and it hasn't been too cold yet but we're supposed to get down to -40°C next week so I want to be able to crank this thing up but I want to be safe about it. The few times that I did crank it up The paint was burning off and causing my smoke alarms to go off lol. As soon as I know my maximum safe pipe temperatures then I'll crank it up to that temperature and hopefully I'll be done with the paint fumes ha ha.