New line of epa certified owbs

[Eric Johnson]

You make some good points, but consider that smoke equals unburned fuel, which means more wood consumption. It has to. I can't speak for anyone else, but my EKO 60 doesn't produce any smoke at all beyond startup (a few wisps during idle), so it has no choice but to burn less wood than a comparably-sized OWB.

 

[brad068]

The problem I have with the current indoor gassifier is based only on reading this forum. It seems as though (my opinion only) most participants on this forum who have purchased an indoor gassifier are generally dissatisfied and or disillusioned with the whole gassification thing. Need to add this or that type of storage, learning curve, smoke out the door, not enough or too much draft, stinky creosote out the back, feed it often, and only burns (18 in. rounds, hard maple, cut from a 13 year old tree. Unless there was a drought year or two then a 15 year old tree is a must.
Kiln dried to 21.2%) "little humor here." Some must be split, some must not be split depending on the brand..... On the other hand the OWB boys just cut it, stack it, and chuck it in. burn more wood but handle it less. I'm thinking if I have to pick up 10 cords three times it's stilll better than burning 6 or 7 cords if I have to pick it up 7 times to burn it. As a whole they seem like a pretty satisfied group. They knew what they were buying and that's what they got. And I've been watching alot of chimneys around here. They smoke more than any owb in my area. When and if I ever see what makes these new and improved OWB's tick, if it includes all the things that are causing the problems with the gassifier I may just stay with the tried and true CB 6048. I've got all summer to educate myself and as you can see I need alot of education. One way or the other I will be burning wood next fall or a the least have a shed full on wood seasoning for the following year or two so it can be "gassified" LOL.

JR, I burn a gasser, a Garn style and I got to say that mine has no more work into it than an owb. Other than a shed to store it in, the one cut, split, stack then burn scenario is still the same with me. Granted seasoned wood does burn better, I'm burning wood that I cut and stacked this last fall and I've been burning since sept. As for wood consumption comparison, a guy I know just replaced his owb Royal with a Garn. The new boiler sits in the same lean-too as the owb and he is getting more heat out of 1 average wheelbarrow than he did with 3. He is heating a 45x50x14 shop with 2 o.h. doors. He is burning the same wood that he would have been putting in the owb if it were still there. Let me know when the owbs have over a 20 year track record, and in all that time burning half the amount of wood, thats a Garn

 

[Eric Johnson]

I tried an 8" cat add-on on my old Royall 6150 and never was able to make it work. I'm glad to hear that somebody has engineered a boiler for one, because you can certainly get the stack temps you need to light a cat off. I wasn't worried about wasting heat--I just wanted it to eat all that smoke. So, live and learn, but best of luck to everyone who is working to retrofit exising installations. As I like to point out (having been there more often than not), not everyone can afford new gear and it's nice to be able to improve what you've got.

 

[webbie]

However, I am guilty of the crime of enjoying the art of making money.

Nyet! Ve shall move you to the Gulag along with the utter capitalist pigs!

We know it's not really the money. After all, that is just a piece of printed green paper. As one of my top sales guys used to say "It's not the money in itself - that's just a barometer telling you whether you are on the right track".

Mark my futurist words here, folks, in 5 years shult will be one of the largest dealers of EPA and Clean OWB in the NE.

We will then delete all his posts here when he tries to convince folks with the older units to upgrade.
:cheese:

Remember, the forum sees all. The posts of today will be easy to search and find 5 years in the future.

 

[brad068]

From what I see of the cc it looks like an idea that I had. To me it looks like they basically used the ceramic/platinum material like out of a cat. converter from an auto exhaust. A cat on an auto exhaust is doing just what this thing is doing for owb smoke-reburning. I think that a old cat like off a diesel truck would work great. Although they are hard to come by even used because they are worth 50-150 bucks! I have put on a few aftermarket diesel exh. and I have a few lightly used ones around. I might try my idea with one of neighbors "smoke dragon"

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Garnification, A while back I called Garn. About three weeks or so. I talked to a nice fellow, can't remember his name but he spoke as though it was his company, at least that was my impression. He explained to me that his product was big, really big. Not really designed for a home more for a shop and I should contact Greenwood. He told me they, greenwood, made a great product and thought I would be best served with one of their gassifiers. I called greenwood. They told me they were in the process of producing a gassifying owb. In it's final testing stages and they were really excited about it. It would be available shortly. I should contact them in a month or so. Since then I found out they had bought out one of the current clean burners and are renaming it an Aspen. Not all that exciting. Where am I going with this?? Who knows, I'm just that confused right now!! What a bunch of horse traders..........

 

[heaterman]

Garnification, A while back I called Garn. About three weeks or so. I talked to a nice fellow, can't remember his name but he spoke as though it was his company, at least that was my impression. He explained to me that his product was big, really big. Not really designed for a home more for a shop and I should contact Greenwood. He told me they, greenwood, made a great product and thought I would be best served with one of their gassifiers. I called greenwood. They told me they were in the process of producing a gassifying owb. In it's final testing stages and they were really excited about it. It would be available shortly. I should contact them in a month or so. Since then I found out they had bought out one of the current clean burners and are renaming it an Aspen. Not all that exciting. Where am I going with this?? Who knows, I'm just that confused right now!! What a bunch of horse traders..........

Johnny

There will be a LOT of horse trading in the next couple years and there are going to be plenty of OWB manufacturers that don't make it. This is history repeating itself as the same things happened to the indoor guys back in the 80's when the EPA started regulating emissions from them. Many of the old line companies just quit because the cost of bringing out a new line and having it tested was just to exorbitant. Lot's of folks got hung with useless warranties and no parts backup because the manufacturer had ceased to exist. This is a buyer beware statement for anyone currently contemplating a traditional OWB. It's going to happen again.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Yes, I bought a CB OWB. No, I could not buy a gassifier and put it indoors, no basement, no room for storage, and IMHO too pricey. Yes, I have a virtually unlimited supply of wood. No, my closet neighbor is 1/4 mile away. No, I do not plan on burning trash or dead deer in it. I pledge to try and burn it as cleanly as I can. The OWB/wood storage shed is close together, no issues with wet wood. I'm not done with the install yet, just got the boiler set and underground piping done last weekend, due to the ground being saturated. Hope the new gasser OWB's work...I could wind up with buyer's remorse in a few years!

 

[magnumhntr]

I called CB today and talked to one of their salesmen about the new CB Gasifier. I called him out on the fusion combustor and the reaction chamber. I asked him if it was nothing more than a refractory like in the EKO or Tarm, and he says no, it's different. I said, well is the 'reaction' chamber built of refractory material? Yes was the reply. Is the fusion combustor forcing air down through the hot coals, and injecting oxygen in the refractory? Yes. So it's a downdraft gasifier with a fancy name for what it does. No! Well then tell me the difference. This went on. Anyway, I offered to buy one on the spot with my visa if I could get a guarantee in writing that if I was unhappy at all with its performance in the next 5 years, or if the water jacket failed in the next 5 years, they would come and get it off my property and refund 100% of my money. I don't think he was impressed with me.

So now I'm looking elsewhere. At least until I can find some reports in the new CB Gasifier. Maybe the new Hawkins, Hardy, or a Sequoya. Maybe Woodmaster will come out with a gasifier. Shaver's look interesting. EKO's still have my eye, as do the new greenfires if they ever get an outdoor model out.

Too many choices, so much research.... I might have to have Eric give me a call and talk me into an EKO, lol!

Chris

 

[magnumhntr]

Seeing as we're talking about the OWGB coming out, I am curious as to why I would choose an EKO or Tarm, or other indoor gasification boiler over a OWGB? Price looks to be about the same once you factor in storage, and it would keep the mess outdoors. I see that Cozy Heat doesn't have anyhthing good to say about them, but they are a EKO ans Tarm dealer, so I'm sure they want to keep selling those. So what are the downfalls to the new OWGB's?

Thanks!

Chris

Magnumhntr, What caliber do you shoot?

I hear the comment about keeping the mess outdoors from a lot of folks and it's a true statement. I have however talked to a lot of those same people after 2-3 years of trudging through the snow, filling the boiler with snowy, frozen wood and wondering why they seem to lose so much heat and the great majority would put the boiler and wood storage inside if they could do it over. I guess I would fall into that category also. A couple minutes with a broom each day doing housekeeping soon beats standing outside, trying to start a fire with wet, ice covered wood at zero degree temps. I've had numerous customers ask me to relocate their OWB into a building, which of course is illegal and something none of them are rated for. Can you say lawsuit? I'm just saying if they ever had a problem..............don't even want to go there myself but I can drive to a dozen places in a 10 mile radius and show you people that have done just that after they got tired of the snow.

How far southwest are you in Michigan? We are just finishing a large infloor job, on a water buffalo farm of all things, down in Fremont. I will be in that area this Thursday or Friday and if it would work I'd be glad to drop by and shoot the breeze with you about your upcoming project. I think I may possibly be in the Allegan neighborhood also later on. PM me if you would like.

As far as outdoor gasifiers go, the only one that I know of that's near or already in production is the Econoburn. Their unit is already EPA certified for phase 1 of the regs. The others.......I don't know about. So many wild eyed claims have been made by the OWB companies that I would be hesitant to believe practically anything they say about a new product.

My personal opinion is that putting a gasifier outside along with all that entails is going to be trouble for a lot of folks. Snow covered, frozen wood is going to take a long time to get up to gasification temperature, and then there's the issue of the added moisture cooling the flue gas.......... I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were creosote issues in the smaller flueways of these boilers because of it. Especially since purchasers of these will talk to their neighbor, who probably has a run of the mill OWB and he burns anything in it. Heck, I know a guy that picks up road killed, frozen deer takes 'em home and throws them in his OWB. He says they burn great if you get a good fire under 'em. A gasifier is a totally different animal than a run of the mill OWB.

LOL! When I first got the net, some 15 years ago, I had a yellow lab named magnum. He was my bird hunting partner, so hence my online persona.

I would be more than happy to shoot the breeze with ya. I am in Plainwell, about 15 miles from Allegan. If you're in the area in the next few weeks, let me know and I'll give ya directions. Always up for some intelligent discussions. Might help me decide the route I want to go for a boiler.

Chris

 

[leaddog]

I don't know where you live in sw michigan but i'm in Hesperia, just north of Muskegan. I have a eko80 running that I'd be happy to show you. pm me if you want.
leaddog

 

[magnumhntr]

I don't know where you live in sw michigan but i'm in Hesperia, just north of Muskegan. I have a eko80 running that I'd be happy to show you. pm me if you want.
leaddog

Something tells me I'll be making a trip north in the near future ;-)

I appreciate the offer, and will definitly take you up on it. I'll give a shout in a few weeks, once I get some things done around here that have to get done.

Chris

 

[ProPain]

Howdy Gents,

I just signed up and have some questions.
I need to do something before winter or I will be bankrupt. Our propane went to $3.59 a gallon last Jan. and my bills for this small
farm house have totaled over $4,000 for the last 14 months. We have baseboard hydronic heating, propane H2O heater, stove, and dryer.
I would like to get our house heat and domestic hot water from burning abundant ash trees that have been killed around here.

It seems like an installed wood burning boiler system is hovers around $8,000 - $10,000.
Why so much for a steel box and blower? Have these prices gone up with oil just because they can ask and get it?

I really think an outdoor gassifier is the way to go, but I will have to take out a loan.
Is that the way to go or might I be better at saving money to get an insert in my fireplace
and live with all the shortcomings of that?

Anyone out there have real experience with the new OWB gassifiers like the Greenwood Apsen or Wooddoctor Converter?

I appreciate all your help and input.

 

[webbie]

As far as the cost of wood boilers, it is one of those things like the weather - nothing we can do about it. They are low production, meaning made largely by hand, and the makers and dealers make a decent profit - they also use a lot of expensive steel, etc.

As to which type of system to choose, a lot of that depends on your wood availability and cost. If you have unlimited wood and a lot of time, then central heat cannot be beat. But if you are buying your wood at higher prices, a space heater might be a better solution.

There are a lot of factors to consider, such as how long you intend to be in the house, etc.

I think the Greenwood outdoor unit is the same as their indoor unit, but dressed for the weather. There are a number of Greenwood owners here.

 

[ProPain]

I just wonder about a product like this:

http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACES/SUPERJACK/tabid/59/Default.aspx

This is an "add on" burner and costs roughly $2500, but the Greenwood unit retails for over $7200

That is a huge difference in price. Does the Greenwood do that much better of a job? Anyone use the Yukon Eagle unit?

But I digress . . . back to the subject.

We have access to lots of dead ash trees that will provide dry good burning firewood, so that appears the best fuel solution for us here.

Is a Greenwood or similar boiler worth the cost as opposed to a fireplace insert burning the same wood and a couple of
electric heaters to warm up the upstairs bedrooms?

 

[WILDSOURDOUGH]

ProPain:

As Web said- there are alot of factors to consider (access to wood, existing heating, your time and commitment, proximity to neighbors...etc.) as to what might be the best solution or choice for you.
You have access to wood, you also have existing baseboard and a fireplace- so some of the questions are already answered for you.

My 'Two Cent's':

There are two things you need to do to keep yourself warm this winter-
One- insulation- and more insulation. No sense in making and paying for heat if it is all just leaking or gushing away.
Two- finding the right heating source (or sources) for your situation.

Wood boilers are a good choice for tying into an existing heating system, provided you have access to wood, and are willing and able to do the work.
An insert is a good choice for a sound fireplace, if it would work for you. I would still plan on installing a Stainless steel liner ($$$) to any chimney's- and that may be a code requirement anyways.

I have a OWB (Central)- this will be my third year w/ it, and I am very happy with it's functioning- it is tied into radiant pex in my basement floor.
I also installed a Wood Stove in the basement last year- more for looks and fun- It heats very well and can be used as a backup source- like when the power go's out, if need be.
I don't know about using electric heaters- seems crazy to me ( electrical too expensive here to even consider it).
Once again- insulation is one prong of he fork- heating source(s) is the other.

Welcome to the forums- best to you !

 

[ProPain]

Thanks Wildsourdough,

I appreciate your time and knowledge.

This 1900's farm house has had cellulose blown into the walls, and I added another 11" of pink fiberglass to the attic on top of
the cellulose blown in there (which was pretty thin). I still have issues and can feel drafts when the wind blows.
I can only guess the cellulose has settled leaving huge gaps and that is the cause? Is there anything you might recommend?

I have very much considered ripping off the clapboard and residing using foil-backed foam. However, that is a HUGE job and
even if very successful, say a 50% savings, if the price of propane goes to $5 or $6 a gallon, we'll see no savings and still have
to make loan payments on the residing job, which will probably be $12K OR MORE.

RIght now I think it is best to do that later. My first step to get to burning wood which is free outside of the work, hauling cost and chainsaw fuel.

Of course, I am here to learn from others and very much respect any other advice I am offered.

THANKS, keep it coming!

ProPain:

As Web said- there are alot of factors to consider (access to wood, existing heating, your time and commitment, proximity to neighbors...etc.) as to what might be the best solution or choice for you.
You have access to wood, you also have existing baseboard and a fireplace- so some of the questions are already answered for you.

My 'Two Cent's':

There are two things you need to do to keep yourself warm this winter-
One- insulation- and more insulation. No sense in making and paying for heat if it is all just leaking or gushing away.
Two- finding the right heating source (or sources) for your situation.

Wood boilers are a good choice for tying into an existing heating system, provided you have access to wood, and are willing and able to do the work.
An insert is a good choice for a sound fireplace, if it would work for you. I would still plan on installing a Stainless steel liner ($$$) to any chimney's- and that may be a code requirement anyways.

I have a OWB (Central)- this will be my third year w/ it, and I am very happy with it's functioning- it is tied into radiant pex in my basement floor.
I also installed a Wood Stove in the basement last year- more for looks and fun- It heats very well and can be used as a backup source- like when the power go's out, if need be.
I don't know about using electric heaters- seems crazy to me ( electrical too expensive here to even consider it).
Once again- insulation is one prong of he fork- heating source(s) is the other.

Welcome to the forums- best to you !

 

[Eric Johnson]

I might have to have Eric give me a call and talk me into an EKO, lol!Chris

Just for the record, I would try to talk you into a gasifier, but I don't care what brand or model you buy.