New house - Creosote dripping - Help

[jotul?]

Am I understanding correctly from your photos that the chimney is constructed almost the way a traditional fireplace chimney is constructed, but what would be the firebox, damper, and smoke shelf area in a traditional fireplace is now basically a masonry cube to hold a wood stove? If so, I'm guessing that one of the bricklayers on the job got lazy and used some self adhesive rubber flashing and/or water proofing mastic in the masonry crossover that is supporting the flue liner and the rest of the chimney. In Pennsylvania at least, chimney code calls for a solid masonry chimney of al least 8 inches of fired masonry material (brick) with a one inch air space surrounding a terra cotta or steel chimney liner. That forms the core of the chimney. Outside of that the mason can use block or other unfired masonry to fill in the size specs of the chimney until the face brick are applied around the outside. In your construction, I see how they attached the flue pipe the the terra cotta, but there has to be something crossing over the alcove like pre stressed concrete lentils or angle iron to support the core of the chimney as it was being constructed. If there is an air gap the whole way up the chimney between the terra cotta and the fill brick the flashing/mastic could be anywhere and running down the terra cotta as it melts. Or someone threw some flashing in there on top of the masonry crossover to try to guarantee that no water could penetrate the crossover thus ruining the plaster for at least a year or however long the new construction guarantee is in Ireland. Just a guess, but I've seen that kind of stuff on job sites.

 

[bholler]

Were did you get the 8" figure? I have only ever seen the requirement of 4" nominal and i have never seen a requirement of 1" air gap either what code are you referencing?

 

[jotul?]

My mistake on the 8" figure. Thinking of length not width. Should have said "one brick" instead of trying to sound smart. www.gov.allconet.org has the rest of the masonry chimney specs. I tried to cut and paste the site but can't get it to work for some reason, also I hadn't seen that the problem had been resolved. I just joined a couple of days ago and didn't realize the thread ran over more than one page.

 

[TradEddie]

There is really no point in quoting US building codes for a UK installation.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that a stove comes with no instruction or installation manual. Whether the flue is the correct size or not isn't directly relevant when the flue has not been constructed/connected to be airtight. Recently a plumber in the ROI went to prison for manslaughter when he failed to properly assemble a gas appliance flue, causing someone to die of carbon monoxide. Find that article and bring it to your installer, or you could be the next victim.

TE

 

[bobdog2o02]

There is really no point in quoting US building codes for a UK installation.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that a stove comes with no instruction or installation manual. Whether the flue is the correct size or not isn't directly relevant when the flue has not been constructed/connected to be airtight. Recently a plumber in the ROI went to prison for manslaughter when he failed to properly assemble a gas appliance flue, causing someone to die of carbon monoxide. Find that article and bring it to your installer, or you could be the next victim.

TE

Items like this are why the IBC has merit.

 

[Owen1508]

I have run into to what maybe similar situations before. Not sure if this is what has happened but I have seen poor installers run say a 6" pipe into a larger class "a" chimney (8") and just stop the 6" just inside the chimney and not run it all the way to the top. They make the outside connection look pretty but inside the moisture does not funnel into the 6" from the 8" class "a" and builds on the outside. my best drawing above. Bear with me I'm not great on these computer images.

In the case of venting into a masonary chimney it could be similar as in the "drawing below". Where as the moisture is not catching the pipe and leaking where the pipe connects to the flue (yellow arrow) Just an opinion.

 

[HotCoals]

I'm thinking Owen is on to it.

 

[Owen1508]

After re reading some of the previous posts I just scanned over it seems this was already thrown out there by the OP and Hog. I hope you are able to remedy this issue and recoup any loses.

 

[clemsonfor]

Wow this looks like a disaster. I am skipping to the end and hope to see its sorted out. I agree with everything on this first page!

 

[Owen1508]

Thanks for the help with the pictures....I'm a little (big) bit of a novice on that

 

[begreen]

I just changed them to thumbnails Owen. You are welcome to help anytime. Don't be afraid to ask.

 

[bholler]

i agree with owen i would say it is a combination of a poor connection at the bottom like he said and an over sized and uninsulated flue causing excess condensation.

 

[TradEddie]

Items like this are why the IBC has merit.

You do realize that the IBC is a bit like the "World Series"? It isn't an international code, despite its name it only applies in the USA, and not even in all states.

Back to the OP, that diagram of the "funnel" inserted into the flue instead of around the outside is exactly what I imagine to be the source of the dirty water. Why there is so much moisture is a separate issue, but I'm sure the OP will confirm that Northern Ireland has no shortage of moisture...

TE

 

[tigger]

This is what is so great about this site. Here are a group up people from all over the world trying to help someone who none of us know. We all share a common interest. None of us are profiting from this. We are all concerned for this guy and his family and having things done the right way! All from a wood cutting/burning/stove background..... Who would have guessed that people with this common thread would be so open and giving. Its a great site. And its a great site because of everyone on it.

 

[mcmurray]

Back with some good news.

I'm pleased to say after a lot of stress and asking a lot of questions, our stove is now working as it should.

The flexible liner was installed and insulated. A stainless steel plate was also fitted at the top of the alcove/opening. The offending adaptor was also removed.

After some discussion with the builder and installer, they agreed that I should have been offered this level of install from the start. But as it wasn't required by law here, that they hadn't done anything wrong by just using an adaptor. On the guidance of a solicitor, I regretfully accepted that this was the case and we came to an agreement on the cost of fixing the issue properly.

I had to pay for the materials at £400 ($650) and the labour (2 men for 1 day) was covered by the installer. This was considerably cheaper than any independent quote to fix the problem, with the cheapest coming in at double that.

I've been burning wood for over 2 weeks now with everything working as it should.

I just wanted to stop by to thank you all again for the free advice and support. You really have a great forum here and I owe you all a beer.


Ryan.

 

[fossil]

Excellent. Rick

 

[BrotherBart]

Good to hear. Thanks for the update.

 

[Owen1508]

That's great

 

[begreen]

Great news, and thanks for the Guinness.

 

[HotCoals]

Good to hear and just goes to show mistakes/bad judgement can be made by those we pay our money to.

 

[240onts]

Just a thought...maybe the pipes were connected wrong. Instead of outside / inside they are inside outside, I've seen it before but that's a LOT of creosote. No way any roofing tar etc. bled in being a brick chimney. Did the guy that installed the liner use any kind of "sealant" that would cause that?

 

[NHcpa]

Just stumbled on this thread and I have the same hearth setup with a horizontal outlet..but internal chimney. Curious what design this is?

 

[Hogwildz]

Back with some good news.

I'm pleased to say after a lot of stress and asking a lot of questions, our stove is now working as it should.

The flexible liner was installed and insulated. A stainless steel plate was also fitted at the top of the alcove/opening. The offending adaptor was also removed.

After some discussion with the builder and installer, they agreed that I should have been offered this level of install from the start. But as it wasn't required by law here, that they hadn't done anything wrong by just using an adaptor. On the guidance of a solicitor, I regretfully accepted that this was the case and we came to an agreement on the cost of fixing the issue properly.

I had to pay for the materials at £400 ($650) and the labour (2 men for 1 day) was covered by the installer. This was considerably cheaper than any independent quote to fix the problem, with the cheapest coming in at double that.

I've been burning wood for over 2 weeks now with everything working as it should.

I just wanted to stop by to thank you all again for the free advice and support. You really have a great forum here and I owe you all a beer.


Ryan.

View attachment 140771

Schweet!
Glad ya got it worked out, and at a decent price. You got a good deal with the liner. And it should burn much better.
Enjoy!

 

[Hogwildz]

View attachment 140800 View attachment 140801
Just stumbled on this thread and I have the same hearth setup with a horizontal outlet..but internal chimney. Curious what design this is?

You have a T set up, not sure why. Can the stove be moved back and piping ran straight up to the liner?
What is the materials the liner is going through? Looks like lath & plaster? Any wood or other combustibles is a no go in that area.

 

[NHcpa]

You have a T set up, not sure why. Can the stove be moved back and piping ran straight up to the liner?
What is the materials the liner is going through? Looks like lath & plaster? Any wood or other combustibles is a no go in that area.

Piping for the stove enters the hearth from the top right. The hole for the chimney is a combination mortar and steel bar reinforcement. The chimney actualy ends at the top right and not behind the hearth rear wall. There is a huge base to this whole thing in the basement. The T was just recently installed because I had a liner put in to aid in draft and cleaning. It's an odd setup and surprised to find a similar one in this thread.