New Hearthstone Shelbume operation

[mdocod]

Wow, thanks a lot. Just one question, for the clean cycle you mentioned earlier. You engaged the cat? Meaning not going through the bypass, right? So with the high temp, it will help to clean the mask of the cat. I assumed. And yes, the wood we put outside is around 15, but my practice is, I would put the wood in 1-2 day before I burn it. Therefore the, reading is around 10. I have out pictures down there, the one with higher reading is right after I took it from outside.

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Yes the "cleaning" cycle advised by Hearthstone in the manuals for most if not all of their stoves is to be run with the catalyst engaged.

The idea here is that with the stove running full blast, you're creating strong complete combustion throughout the firebox, in the secondaries, and in the space above the baffle. This sends a river of superheated clean exhaust gases through the cats. Think of it like a steam cleaning for the cats and the chimney.

 

[starbuck7290]

Yes the "cleaning" cycle advised by Hearthstone in the manuals for most if not all of their stoves is to be run with the catalyst engaged.

The idea here is that with the stove running full blast, you're creating strong complete combustion throughout the firebox, in the secondaries, and in the space above the baffle. This sends a river of superheated clean exhaust gases through the cats. Think of it like a steam cleaning for the cats and the chimney.

Make sense. Now I just need to see what’s going on with the cat and once it cleaned I will try your method. I think I might know why it has the clogs. I have always shut the airflow once it reaches cat active zone without any high heat clean cycle. It never go beyond 400f since I have it.

 

[mdocod]

I'm reading this thread with great interest, I'm 1 month into a Hearthstone Shelburne 8372 and NOT loving it. Seems to be extremely finicky about draft (barely adequate with 15' chimney),

15' from the top of the stove or 15' above the ground?
What type of chimney?
Any elbows?
Rear or top exit from stove?
How much stove pipe?
Single or double wall?
What elevation are you at?

15' in a straight shot from the top of the stove with about 5ft of stove pipe followed by 10ft of insulated Class A chimney pipe would probably work really nicely at low elevation without the need for a damper, however, if you have any factors that work against the performance of the chimney system, then you're probably not getting enough draft from this chimney height. (non-insulated liner or clay chimney, Elbows and T's, rear exit, plugged up chimney cap etc)

Inspect the chimney and cap, make sure they are clear.

...wood(slightest variation in dryness causes poor burning),

Hearthstone stoves run about 200lb per cubic foot of firebox, which is on the heavier end of stove weight. When starting from a cold stove, it can take 30-45 minutes of burning at full throttle (air control all the way out) to heat up the stove sufficiently to support a clean, continuous low burn rate thereafter. Wood moisture is a factor, but the process for starting up the stove and getting the stove and the chimney system up to temperature is equally important to maintaining a strong draft throughout the remainder of the burn cycle.

and sends smoke into the room even with bypass open and s-l-o-w-l-y opening door.

A proper draft should have plenty of force to suck 99% of the smoke up over the baffle with the door open. When there's active flames in the box the draft should be able to pull flames around the baffle and up through the bypass so fast that they rumble a bit. A good draft should also be strong enough to pull the door shut when left about 1/2" ajar.

With that said, most stoves have a "bad" spot with the door, if you hold the door at just the right angle while closing or opening, rather than push or pull through that position, the door will direct air into the stove in a way that drives smoke and flames out the other side of the door top and bottom.

When opening the stove door, crack a window in the room open a few inches, then hold the stove door slightly ajar for about 30 seconds, allowing the draft into the firebox to both clear the smoke out of it, and "fire up" any wood in the box. Flaming wood produces a lot less smoke than smoldering wood, and hot exhaust from flames will promote a stronger draft. Once the box is clear of smoke, and the logs in the box are burning (if there are logs in the box), steadily pull the door open the rest of the way.

Consider the forces in your home that may cause negative pressure. Homes have natural stack-effect, bathroom fans, oven hood fans, clothes driers, and in most older homes, B-vent chimneys for natural gas furnaces and water heaters. These ALL place negative pressure on the house. I have very good draft from my chimney but if the oven hood is on full blast and the dryer is running and a bathroom fan is running, opening the stove door without cracking a window will put smoke in the house.

So - in addition to EGT question, I'd like to know: should be operating stove based on the flue temp, or the temp range gauge (built into the stove) for the catalytic converter?

The temp gauge on the side of these stoves is very slow to react and is heavily influenced by the stove body temp itself, since there's probably 1-2" of the probe passing through the stove wall, and then the probe dial, which is impacted by the heat of the stove body, is very close to the stove body.

Unfortunately, this all makes the temperature gauge on the stove a poor indicator of what is actually happening. It's very common for the probe to be reading in the "active" range just from a warm/hot stove body, long after all the wood gases have been expelled from the wood and the cats are in fact, not active.

A measure of EGT's above the stove, at the stove pipe, is a much more instantaneous measure of what is going on. When used in conjunction with the probe on the side of the stove, you will have a better understanding of what is happening. I use Flue gas temps and what is happening inside the firebox to drive most of the decision making around the stove, and use the built in probe as a sanity check and to check for successful combustion transition to the cats a few hours into the burn.

This is my first stove w catalytic (out of concern for emissions) but I'm seriously considering whether it should be my last.
Previous stoves: VC Acclaim c. 1992 (quirky but loveable), Napoleon S20 (loved it, left behind at previous home)

There's a learning curve to a cat stove. Once you figure it out you may find that it works pretty good. That said, we're burning solid fuels through a combustor technology that was originally developed for the cleanup of exhaust on liquid fuel systems. Those system don't have all the soot and ash to contend with, so there are going to be some tradeoffs here.

 

[mdocod]

Make sense. Now I just need to see what’s going on with the cat and once it cleaned I will try your method. I think I might know why it has the clogs. I have always shut the airflow once it reaches cat active zone without any high heat clean cycle. It never go beyond 400f since I have it.

Yea I think you need to run everything hotter.

 

[mdocod]

What are EGT’s? I’m assuming it’s flue temps but are they internal or external temps? Makes a big difference.

Exhaust Gas Temps

Can be measured internally with a probe, or measured using a surface temp device that has been "calibrated and graduated" such that it tells EGT's based on surface temp readings.

Both methods have merit.

 

[mdocod]

How do you get it to 800F?

Box full of wood, air control wide open for as long as needed to get there. On a bed of coals and a warm stove that's usually around 10 minutes. From a cold start I am making a point to leave the air control wide open for 30-40 minutes to bring everything up to temp.

 

[webby3650]

Maybe I missed it. The cats were clogged with ash?

 

[KDubU]

Maybe I missed it. The cats were clogged with ash?

Still waiting on an answer to this and I believe a proper moisture reading on the stove.

 

[starbuck7290]

Still waiting on an answer to this and I believe a proper moisture reading on the

 

[starbuck7290]

Pretty sure it is clogged. Still too hot to look at the cat. I see there is black shining inside the cat chamber. How do I clean it? Any clue?

 

[mdocod]

Pretty sure it is clogged. Still too hot to look at the cat. I see there is black shining inside the cat chamber. How do I clean it? Any clue?

If you engage the cats and the fires goes out, that means they are plugged up.

Why start another fire in a stove with clearly plugged cats?

You need to either remove the cats to clean them or try to reach in with a vacuum wand to clean them. Either way. On this stove design you can probably access them through any of the entry points. Remove baffles from front, or reach down through stove collar, or remove rear outlet. Any should work.

There's probably going to be black soot and creosote all over the inside of the stove, on the baffle, in the cat chamber, and likely in the chimney now as well. The easiest way to clean the stove is to first clean your cats with a vacuum, reinstall them, then start up a fire according to the manufacture recommendations:

"[CREOSOTE] PREVENTION:
Burn the stove with the primary air control fully open for 35 - 45 minutes daily to burn out creosote deposits from within the stove and the venting system. After reloading with wood, burn the stove with the primary air control fully open for 15 to 20 minutes. This manner of operation ensures early engagement of the secondary combustion system that minimizes creosote buildup in the chimney."

Routinely starting the stove this way will result in lower overall emissions and result in a clean cat and chimney system that needs minimal maintenance. The bit of extra heat thrown up the stove pipe compared to a lazy startup is a small cost to pay compared to having to do more maintenance otherwise.

A HOT stove is a CLEAN stove. The more I use my Mansfield the more I come to realize how important this startup and reload procedure found in all the hearthstone stove manuals is.

-----------

Edit in: if the cats are plugged up with material that a vacuum won't remove:

From your stove manual:

Inspect the catalysts for any fly ash or clogging, and remove with a soft bristled brush or vacuum crevice tool. If extra cleaning is needed, follow the guidelines below: -
You may use compressed air under 35 psi, air only, no chemicals.
-You may soak the catalysts in a hot water mix (not boiling), 4 parts water, 1 part vinegar. Rinse with cold water until vinegar smell is mostly gone.
-No metal tools such as gun cleaners should be used.
-No detergents or chemicals.

 

[webby3650]

If you engage the cats and the fires goes out, that means they are plugged up.

Why start another fire in a stove with clearly plugged cats?

You need to either remove the cats to clean them or try to reach in with a vacuum wand to clean them. Either way. On this stove design you can probably access them through any of the entry points. Remove baffles from front, or reach down through stove collar, or remove rear outlet. Any should work.

There's probably going to be black soot and creosote all over the inside of the stove, on the baffle, in the cat chamber, and likely in the chimney now as well. The easiest way to clean the stove is to first clean your cats with a vacuum, reinstall them, then start up a fire according to the manufacture recommendations:

"[CREOSOTE] PREVENTION:
Burn the stove with the primary air control fully open for 35 - 45 minutes daily to burn out creosote deposits from within the stove and the venting system. After reloading with wood, burn the stove with the primary air control fully open for 15 to 20 minutes. This manner of operation ensures early engagement of the secondary combustion system that minimizes creosote buildup in the chimney."

Routinely starting the stove this way will result in lower overall emissions and result in a clean cat and chimney system that needs minimal maintenance. The bit of extra heat thrown up the stove pipe compared to a lazy startup is a small cost to pay compared to having to do more maintenance otherwise.

A HOT stove is a CLEAN stove. The more I use my Mansfield the more I come to realize how important this startup and reload procedure found in all the hearthstone stove manuals is.

-----------

Edit in: if the cats are plugged up with material that a vacuum won't remove:

From your stove manual:

Inspect the catalysts for any fly ash or clogging, and remove with a soft bristled brush or vacuum crevice tool. If extra cleaning is needed, follow the guidelines below: -
You may use compressed air under 35 psi, air only, no chemicals.
-You may soak the catalysts in a hot water mix (not boiling), 4 parts water, 1 part vinegar. Rinse with cold water until vinegar smell is mostly gone.
-No metal tools such as gun cleaners should be used.
-No detergents or chemicals.

I see these stoves with clogged up cats from ash. Even with the best burning practices. Might just be ash, not creosote.

 

[mdocod]

I see these stoves with clogged up cats from ash. Even with the best burning practices. Might just be ash, not creosote.

Right! But once they are plugged and a fire smolders in the box for awhile everything else gets covered in creosote, which requires a proper hot fire to clean off.

As I said, the cats will probably be cleanable with a vacuum, which is a soot/ash issue. In the unlikely scenario that it's plugged with something sticky, then the water/vinegar mix needs to come out.

 

[starbuck7290]

Right! But once they are plugged and a fire smolders in the box for awhile everything else gets covered in creosote, which requires a proper hot fire to clean off.

As I said, the cats will probably be cleanable with a vacuum, which is a soot/ash issue. In the unlikely scenario that it's plugged with something sticky, then the water/vinegar mix needs to come out.

Thanks so much for the detail explanation. I have been able to stick a vacuum in and get the cat cleaned. Started a fire with full box. Reach to cat active temp and turn the cat on. Fire slow down again so I think the cat is not cleaned enough. So I want to clean the cat again by letting the bypass on to burn the rest of the wood. When it was reached to 600, I let the cat on, thinking maybe higher temp fire can clean the cat a little bit. And this time, the fire goes on and stays at 600. I will let it cool off and check the cat again tomorrow.

 

[starbuck7290]

Update: I did not turn n off the stove to clean the cat again. Just get another full box and let it go with the cat in full air control open. It seems fine now. I will keep in mind to let it have very high temp 30-40 mins a day to have a clean stove. Thanks so much for everybody’s help. You guys are awesome. (I know, I havnt test the wood yet, I will, once the weather is batter.)

 

[starbuck7290]

So, I think the cat plugs again. And yet I still haven’t checked the wood yet. However, I am thinking maybe I havnt cleaned the cat through last time. All I did was stick the vacuum and clean. It works or for about two weeks? Now it goes back to what it was. So I manage to take the cat out from the front. And this time did 4:1 water : vinegar and sock it in. Hopefully this would do the job. The first picture is before it is clean.