New Hearth Build

[begreen]

Argh, we've gone round on this many times. NexGen has perlite pellets. It was confused by some with their shower floor material which had the styrofoam pellets. Unfortunately it sounds like some folks at USG don't read their own product data.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/original-type-durock.69074/#post-868793

Also note greythorn's as hoc test that follows in the thread.

 

[Don2222]

Here are a few of my hearth builds

Hearth that Heats the room all by itself!
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/heated-hearth-output.68655/

Lighted Hearth with Selkirk DT up & Out venting
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...stall-with-custom-lighted-hearth.90555/page-2

Pressure Treated and waterproof PCV board trim hearth
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...-hearth-for-garage.104197/page-2#post-1405455

 

[mepellet]

Argh, we've gone round on this many times.

I noticed that. Hency my confusion...

 

[begreen]

Sorry. It would be so much easier if USG would just get this product tested and certified. That would eliminate a lot of confusion. Unfortunately I don't think the hearth.com membership is going to be able to do prod them hard enough. It will take a serious request by a large organization such as HPBA to accomplish this. It would be great if HPBA could take a leadership role here and pursue this course of action.

 

[Jags]

Sorry. It would be so much easier if USG would just get this product tested and certified.

Sorry, it was mis-speak on my behalf about the foam - yes, perlite is what is used in the Nexgen. The product hasn't been certified for hearth use. That is why I keep calling, hoping that they found a need/want to certify it.

 

[mepellet]

So does everyone use wonderboard then?

 

[Jags]

So does everyone use wonderboard then?

Durock is probably the most widely used - even without the certification. Wonderboard went to a "lite" version as well and I don't know what is used in that board.

 

[Jags]

Wonderboard lite

Ingredients:

Portland cement
Silica, crystalline, quartz Calcium carbonate Fiberglass

 

[mepellet]

Durock is probably the most widely used - even without the certification.

Doesn't make it right. I want to install this hearth to meet or exceed code. If it doesn't have the certification, it probably doesn't meet code. Most building materials need to be listed or approved for their installed use.

 

[Jags]

Doesn't make it right. I want to install this hearth to meet or exceed code. If it doesn't have the certification, it probably doesn't meet code. Most building materials need to be listed or approved for their installed use.

I understand your position and that is why I keep dialing USG -hoping they would get off their butts and get this product certified. The ingredient list indicates nothing that would fail the certification.

 

[begreen]

Doesn't make it right. I want to install this hearth to meet or exceed code. If it doesn't have the certification, it probably doesn't meet code. Most building materials need to be listed or approved for their installed use.

I have seen Durock NextGen used in commercial hearth pads. Ask companies like Yoder where they are getting said certification. My guess is they are paying for the UL testing independently.

 

[mepellet]

I understand your position and that is why I keep dialing USG -hoping they would get off their butts and get this product certified. The ingredient list indicates nothing that would fail the certification.

I sent a request to wonderbord to see if their product is approved for my intended use.

 

[mepellet]

I have seen Durock NextGen used in commercial hearth pads. Ask companies like Yoder where they are getting said certification. My guess is they are paying for the UL testing independently.

So since I am not buying a commercial hearth pad, it doesn't sound like the durock products will meet code in my situation. Why is it so hard to find a product that is approved for this use? Makes you wonder about all of the installations that are using Durock NextGen...... hmmmmmm?

 

[begreen]

Both USG and Wonderboard neglected to update their product certifications when they switched to the NexGen , Lite products. Not sure why. Either one used to be the defacto standard. They have definitely thrown confusion into the hearth industry. It doesn't make a lot of sense when the new products have a superior R value and are entirely non-combustible.

 

[raybonz]

So since I am not buying a commercial hearth pad, it doesn't sound like the durock products will meet code in my situation. Why is it so hard to find a product that is approved for this use? Makes you wonder about all of the installations that are using Durock NextGen...... hmmmmmm?

I built my hearth with Nexgen and passed inspection.. Nexgen has much better R-value than the original cement board and it is NOT combustible.. You can't light this stuff with a blow torch!

Ray

 

[mepellet]

I built my hearth with Nexgen and passed inspection.. Nexgen has much better R-value than the original cement board and it is NOT combustible.. You can't light this stuff with a blow torch!

Ray

I realize that durock would WORK just fine but I also want to make sure everything about my hearth installation is to code. Just because something passes inspection doesn't mean that it was done to code.

 

[raybonz]

I realize that durock would WORK just fine but I also want to make sure everything about my hearth installation is to code. Just because something passes inspection doesn't mean that it was done to code.

I suggest you visit the building inspector which I did before building. They asked for details of the build then checked that I did what I said I would do..

Ray

 

[mepellet]

I suggest you visit the building inspector which I did before building. They asked for details of the build then checked that I did what I said I would do..

Ray

No inspection required here. But I could visit them anyway. My guess is that they won't know any more about it than anyone here.

 

[firefighterjake]

No inspection required here. But I could visit them anyway. My guess is that they won't know any more about it than anyone here.

Depends on the inspector . . . and where you are located . . . some inspectors may know nothing, some may be relying on old info they learned from the dawn of time (i.e. don't be surprised if one tells you there has to be a 3 foot clearance from the stove to the wall and some folks actually take the time to learn -- rumor has it that some actually even hang out here at hearth.com.

Personally, if I was the Inspector I would most likely give the green light to the NextGen Durock even without the hearth endorsement . . . sometimes a bit of commonsense has to come into play and as noted . . . there is nothing in it that would give me a real concern and if anything it seems a bit better . . . for me the real key would be watching the R value requirement for the hearth/stove match up and the clearances.

 

[tfdchief]

Depends on the inspector . . . and where you are located . . . some inspectors may know nothing, some may be relying on old info they learned from the dawn of time (i.e. don't be surprised if one tells you there has to be a 3 foot clearance from the stove to the wall and some folks actually take the time to learn -- rumor has it that some actually even hang out here at hearth.com.

Personally, if I was the Inspector I would most likely give the green light to the NextGen Durock even without the hearth endorsement . . . sometimes a bit of commonsense has to come into play and as noted . . . there is nothing in it that would give me a real concern and if anything it seems a bit better . . . for me the real key would be watching the R value requirement for the hearth/stove match up and the clearances.

 

[mepellet]

So are we in agreement that hardibacker is not rated for hearth use? When we say "rated for hearth use," is there an ASTM number that is a test procedure for the manufacturers to do to get product certification? If so, what is the number that I should be looking for on the product cutsheets?

 

[raybonz]

So are we in agreement that hardibacker is not rated for hearth use? When we say "rated for hearth use," is there an ASTM number that is a test procedure for the manufacturers to do to get product certification? If so, what is the number that I should be looking for on the product cutsheets?

I returned it and used the Durock NexGen as it is not combustible and has superior R-value..

Ray

 

[mepellet]

I was just told by James Hardie that Hardiebacker 500 can be used if the manufacturer of the stove requires noncombustible construction. So maybe hardiebacker is the only approved cement board that can be used in a wood stove hearth???

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you are seeking the lowest common denominator here. Normally insulation value is fairly important with hearth design.

I just sent a detailed email to USG asking for testing and approval for Durock NexGen. We'll see where this one goes. In the meantime I suggest commonsense be your guide.

 

[mepellet]

I changed out the hardibacker for durock nextgen. Ripped out the hardwood flooring down to the subfloor (T&G boards on diagonal) last weekend. This weekend, I'll be putting down one layer of 3/8" plywood over the T&G boards and 1 layer of 1/2" durock nextgen on top of that then tile on top of that. In the meantime, gotta start figuring out what brand and where to purchase the chimney from. Any recommendations? Going to go straight up from stove through about 4' of attic space. Will do a 15 degree offset in attic because attic floor structure runs perpendicular to roof structure.....