New Generator for New House

[Bad LP]

My 7000 Honda sips fuel but it does not like coming out of Eco Throttle into full power for the well pump so when we are using water the it gets shut off so that the genny does not stall. For regular house load Eco works just fine.

While the Honda is a bit more money than some people are willing to spend its a rock solid unit. I keep the battery on a maintainer because those little AGM batteries are not cheap.

 

[peakbagger]

If someone has a gasoline powered generator and access to ethanol free fuel, the logical approach is run it on ethanol free. Talk to any small engine mechanic and they will tell you that 90% of their work these days is damage to the fuel systems from ethanol blended gas. If you can not get ethanol free, learn how to drain the tank and the carburetor bowl after every use. That reduces the damage from the ethanol free gas but obviously introduces the need to fuel up the generator prior to starting. The alternative is after a long run just do the last fill with ethanol free so that the ethanol is flushed out. Honda's state they are designed for Ethanol but the large engines usually have tank drain and bowl drain and warning about using fresh fuel and draining when in storage. Alternatively buy a spare carb when you buy the generator and keep it in the shelf for when it will need it. There is no if, if you let it sit with stale ethanol fuel the buildup will start, intially it may jusr run a bit rough and not idle very well but eventually when you need it it will stall when the load changes.

 

[firefighterjake]

I've run a number of small engines with ethanol gas with no issues, albeit I have always used a stabilizing agent of some sort . . . but that said . . . with the generator I try to only run ethanol -free gas (local gas station carries ethanol free gas which is a little more expensive than the ethanol gas mix, but much cheaper than the canned ethanol-free gas) and even then I drain most of the tank, run the engine dry and use fuel stabilizer. I figure it's one thing if my 15 year old lawn mower ends up with an issue and needs repair . . . lawn just keeps on growing . . . it's a whole other ball of wax if my generator dies in middle of January and I am without power for a week or two.

 

[Brian26]

I just went through a 5 day outage from Isaias and then a tornado went through last week and I was was out another 3 days. I got by just fine with my 449$ Harbor Freight 2000 watt inverter.
Was really impressed with how little fuel it used.

Standard big frame generators run at a fixed 3600 rpms. This inverter in Eco mode will run at only 800 rpms and doesn't ramp up the engine untill the load is over 500 watts. Had no issue running my fridge, tv, led lights, chargers, etc in eco mode. I went almost 18 hours on a gallon of gas in eco mode.

Both my neighbors went out and bought one after I told them how much fuel I went through. They were both running huge open frame units that were guzzling gas.

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[maple1]

If someone wants an inverter gennie but they can't quite justify the price they're looking at - there are also open frame inverters out there that are a bit cheaper than the suitcase jobbies. I know Champion makes some. IMO they would be better anyway, should be way easier to service. Changing the oil in those closed up ones can be a task. But they are quiet. And look cute.

 

[Highbeam]

I just went through a 5 day outage from Isaias and then a tornado went through last week and I was was out another 3 days. I got by just fine with my 449$ Harbor Freight 2000 watt inverter.
Was really impressed with how little fuel it used.

Standard big frame generators run at a fixed 3600 rpms. This inverter in Eco mode will run at only 800 rpms and doesn't ramp up the engine untill the load is over 500 watts. Had no issue running my fridge, tv, led lights, chargers, etc in eco mode. I went almost 18 hours on a gallon of gas in eco mode.

Both my neighbors went out and bought one after I told them how much fuel I went through. They were both running huge open frame units that were guzzling gas.

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Great post. 18 hours on one gallon! The reality is that most of us don't need 5000+ watts to just keep our house going. Some need those huge gensets only for a few minutes a day to power well pumps. If you live in the heat, AC is another excuse. As you show and I have also experienced, a little 2000-3000 watt generator is plenty and comes with the benefit of significantly less noise, less cost, lower fuel consumption, portability, and better quality power on the inverter units.

Also, as you show. Brand name is not really a factor. Most all are from overseas anyway and in this international economy we can just forget about where something is allegedly "assembled". Customer support is very good on the HF units, the champions, and I'm sure the honda and yamaha places.

I have had zero problems with ethanol fuel in my very wet western washington location. I think it's an overblown myth. That, or the fact that every ounce of fuel I use in the small engine fleet gets sta-bil stabilizer as soon as I buy it.

 

[johneh]

Yes the small inverter units are nice and sip fule
I have a propane-fired whole house unit totally automatic at home
I also have a 11500-watt portable unit that I use at the hunt camp
The reason I went so big is that it was a good price and an electric start.
At my age, it is getting hard to pull any engine over.

 

[Brian26]

Costco has a great price on one with a Yamaha engine. I might pick another one up as the parallel capability on inverters is a great feature. You can essentially pair them together with a parallel kit and they will sync up with each other doubling your output.

 

[brenndatomu]

I have had zero problems with ethanol fuel in my very wet western washington location. I think it's an overblown myth. That, or the fact that every ounce of fuel I use in the small engine fleet gets sta-bil stabilizer as soon as I buy it.

As a former mechanic at a motorcycle/ATV/snowmobile/OPE dealership, I can vouch for how much trouble ethanol causes...it sure brought us a lot of work!
Stabilizer, or at least ethanol treatment makes a big difference...but buying e-free is still the best solution, especially for storage.

 

[peakbagger]

A relevant article for hearth.com

Getting Cranked About Ethanol | Summer 2010 | Knots and Bolts

As I was waiting at the shop the other day to pick up my chainsaw, I heard strong words up ahead in line: something about the government and the… This content

northernwoodlands.org

 

[brenndatomu]

A relevant article for hearth.com

Getting Cranked About Ethanol | Summer 2010 | Knots and Bolts

As I was waiting at the shop the other day to pick up my chainsaw, I heard strong words up ahead in line: something about the government and the… This content

northernwoodlands.org

One thing to point out from that article...as far as "run 'er dry vs leave the fuel in there"...a plastic tank is fine stored empty, any machine with a steel fuel tank will rust if stored empty...unless you live in the desert or something.

 

[Brian26]

Great post. 18 hours on one gallon! The reality is that most of us don't need 5000+ watts to just keep our house going. Some need those huge gensets only for a few minutes a day to power well pumps. If you live in the heat, AC is another excuse. As you show and I have also experienced, a little 2000-3000 watt generator is plenty and comes with the benefit of significantly less noise, less cost, lower fuel consumption, portability, and better quality power on the inverter units.

Also, as you show. Brand name is not really a factor. Most all are from overseas anyway and in this international economy we can just forget about where something is allegedly "assembled". Customer support is very good on the HF units, the champions, and I'm sure the honda and yamaha places.

I have had zero problems with ethanol fuel in my very wet western washington location. I think it's an overblown myth. That, or the fact that every ounce of fuel I use in the small engine fleet gets sta-bil stabilizer as soon as I buy it.

Yeah. The difference in fuel consumption is huge My 2000 watt inverter is rated at .08 gph at 25% load (500 watts). A 7200 Yamaha is rated at .58 gph at 50% load.

Even just running one overnight with the fridge and some chargers plugged in would save a ton of fuel.

I watched my neighbors dump 5 gallon jugs of gas in their big generators every morning. Thats excessive considering they were probably just running their fridge and maybe some chargers overnight. Modern fridges run at extremely low wattages now. Mine only draws 100 watts running.

I had no issues running a coffee maker, instapot/air fryer, window ac off it as well.

 

[Highbeam]

Overnight running. We don’t do it. Once we’re done watching tv and getting into the fridge for the last time of the night I shut down the genset. The closed refrigerators stay cold overnight, even the quietest generators make noise to keep us and neighbors awake, waste fuel, and a running generator could attract thieves.

If you have a sleeping machine or need ac then that’s different.

Harbor freight makes a 3000 watt inverter too that people love. I think I would rather have two gensets that could run the rv air conditioner (redundant backup). I’ll take a look on Saturday.

 

[maple1]

Uh yeah we never run ours at night. Soon as the TV is off, the gennie is off.

Got a couple UPS's here too. They also help. A couple of those can run a modem and charge phones etc. for quite a while. The auto booster box things are also handy. Can't save more gas than by the gennie not running.

 

[Stelcom66]

Even though the power co. has been routinely cutting down trees (what do they do with all that wood?) outages around here still happen, and lately for a long duration. What is the general amount of time a refrigerator can be off without food starting to spoil? I've heard various answers. I ask because I would like to get a generator - for me 4,000-5,000 watts would probably suffice as my well pump is 1/2 hp. During the workday (which since April has been less frequent and < 8 hours) I'm not home - so I'd like to not run the generator then.

Similar the OP, I'd be running the refrigerator, well pump and occasional lights. TV just for the news. If I was building a new house, a generator and probably some solar would be in the plans.

IMO it's easier to deal with a power outage during cold weather. The wood stove keeps the house comfortable and can be used for cooking. If it's cold enough - to a point some food could be stored (securely) outside to keep from spoiling. That's what I did during that early snowstorm in October 2011. With many leaves still on the trees many came down causing power to be out over a week. I kept some food in coolers outside and drinks in the snow.

 

[peakbagger]

If they are relatively full and a modern energy efficient model and most importantly the door is never opened you can get 6 to 8 hours. Chest type freezers will hold longer if full. There are special ice packs for freezers that can be put in them that will extend the duration how long it will stay cold without power.

Years ago a local farm had their barn burn down. They had a couple of chest freezers full of meat. The entire barn was down on top of the freezers and they looked scorched. A local fireman pulled the owner aside and told him to get rid of the freezers or the fire inspector would condemn them and make the farmer empty them out. The meat was still frozen so they emptied them out into someone elses freezer before the fire inspector came. When the inspector came he noted the freezers and looked into them and told the farmer he was lucky they were empty when the barn burned down as otherwise he would have to had emptied them.

 

[fbelec]

leave them running over night around here and the thieves listen for the noise and it's gone

 

[fbelec]

around here when the power company does trimming they just drop the wood so anybody can pick it. mostly cut in 4 foot lengths sometimes the crew will leave them log length

 

[Stelcom66]

I know someone who has their generator chained to something with a lock. Thieves would be a concern any time.

I'm not sure what the policy is re: cut wood from the power company around here. I'd think it would be Ok to take it, less work for them.
The transfer station in town would have lot after a storm. We had a big one a month ago. Unfortunately due to the situation we're all part time at our company. To cut costs I temporarily took the insurance off my truck.

 

[maple1]

On the fridge freezer thing. If the power goes out here mid day, we will quite often not do anything until the next day. Lost count how many times the power has come back on right after I just drug the gennie out and got things up and running with it. If they are kept closed, I'm ok with going a full day with the fridge and 3 or 4 with a good freezer. Haven't lost any food yet.

 

[Highbeam]

On the fridge freezer thing. If the power goes out here mid day, we will quite often not do anything until the next day. Lost count how many times the power has come back on right after I just drug the gennie out and got things up and running with it. If they are kept closed, I'm ok with going a full day with the fridge and 3 or 4 with a good freezer. Haven't lost any food yet.

Overnight or while away at a shift of work the refers are all fine as long as the doors stay closed. Too much value for me to go much longer and risk it plus we need to get food out so usually we only let it cruise about 10 hours.

If you're only safe for 6 hours then your 1950s fridge is due for replacement.

Modern fridges have low power compressors that are designed to run a lot. They only need 100 watts or so. This means that after you wake up it may take a long time for the fridge to recool. Just be patient.

 

[Stelcom66]

Yea the re-cooling time is a concern. My frig is 5 years old, so probably an efficient one. Disconnected the large freezer in the basement a couple years ago. Maybe before the next anticipated major storm it would be a good idea to plug it in and fill several containers with water.

On the fridge freezer thing. If the power goes out here mid day, we will quite often not do anything until the next day. Lost count how many times the power has come back on right after I just drug the gennie out and got things up and running with it...

Occasionally power will go out during good weather for other reasons, fortunately those outages only last for a few hours.

 

[Highbeam]

Got to sit through a wildfire induced power outage this week so have some data! My 3000 watt champion inverter genset ran from sun up to bedtime and has a pretty small 1.6 gallon fuel tank with a red ring down in the fill neck that marks full so maybe even less than 1.6. It lasted over 9 hours per tank running three refers, lights, microwave, girl hair things, TVs, computers, and my hops dehydrator. It has a 171 CC engine and idles down a bit in economy mode.

So 1.6/9 is .18 gallons per hour for available 3000 watts, surely I was using less on average. It made it almost 10 hours and with the air space in the tank was less than 1.6 gallons so the 0.18 is conservative.

Great French press coffee every morning.

 

[peakbagger]

FYI, there are low freezing point blocks that will freeze at a lower temps than just water. They keep the food well below freezing for longer.

 

[Corey]

More thoughts . . .

I've never really worried too much about the fuel supply as I have plenty of gas stations in the area (or at work) and generally lay in a supply of fuel when I hear of a potential storm which could cause a power loss . .

Always good to lay in a supply of fuel...it has always been one of my main concerns! But I guess could vary a lot depending on what type of outages you expect. (this actually reminds me I need to dump my 10 gallons of stored gas in my truck and go get some fresh fuel for storage!)

For single household or few-block wide power outages, as you say, there are always plenty of gas stations, but in an extended local, regional, or (gulp) national outage, those likely won't be able to pump fuel or tender sales, and the few that can will likely be swamped with customers.

I always thought natural gas would be great...not have to store fuel, relatively 'uninterruptible', no fuel going bad. But I've known of several instances of storms ripping down trees - which had gas lines tangled up in their roots - leading to whole sections of towns having natural gas shut off. Expect this might be similar for earthquake, flood, tornado, hurricane scenarios. Even though 'your' gas lines might not be damaged, you could be out due to being on a branch where some lines are.

Propane is another option, though unless you already have a large tank, or room to get one, it's hard to store a large quantity. The standard 'barbecue' tanks are ~4-5 gallons of gasoline equivalent. So good for a day or so of run time, or possibly several days if you don't need continuous power.

The best solution I could come up with was to gear up for tri-fuel! Hopefully at least one of the three will be available, at least for some period of time!