New Furnace Day: Drolet Heat Commander

[trx250r87]

So how many of you guys are running a magnehelic gauge and barometric damper ? and your thoughts on them, either way i think I'll run the magnehelic gauge just so I can monitor the chimney. The only thing I'm thinking is with barometric damper when or if your house is in negative pressure could that cause issues?

I personally would just permanently install a manometer or magnehelic gauge. It's a super useful tool and something that you can glance at every time you are near the furnace for a little piece of mind knowing that everything is working as it should. It's kind of like checking you MPG on your vehicle, a sudden drop can tell you something is wrong.

Eric

 

[JRHAWK9]

(although I'm sure just like any wood furnace, the blower will continue to cycle on/off a few times as the furnace grows colder)

No blower cycling here! If it's on, it stays on, when it goes off, it stays off.

So how many of you guys are running a magnehelic gauge and barometric damper?

I am running a Magnehelic and a BD.

The only thing I'm thinking is with barometric damper when or if your house is in negative pressure could that cause issues?

I run an OAK connected directly to my BD, so I'm using cold outside air to send up the chimney vs using heated basement air. I don't have an SBI furnace though, as I have a Kuuma.

A little spendy and they cheaped out and didn't send any screws to mount it in the holder or any plugs or fittings, so not a fan of the company, but the gauge does seem well made.

This is what I have and I received everything I was supposed to when I bought both the gauge and mount.

 

[brenndatomu]

No blower cycling here! If it's on, it stays on, when it goes off, it stays off.

Yeah yeah yeah...but you well know that's not a fair fight with a stock furnace

 

[NorMi]

This is how I have mine secured into the mount

I didn't call them to see if they would send me any screws or fittings, but this is just temporary and then probably live in a box for most of its life after I put together the digital stuff that will replace it.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Yeah yeah yeah...but you well know that's not a fair fight with a stock furnace

 

[laynes69]

You sir need to update your sig line!

Lol. Oh yeah!

 

[NSGUY]

I personally would just permanently install a manometer or magnehelic gauge. It's a super useful tool and something that you can glance at every time you are near the furnace for a little piece of mind knowing that everything is working as it should. It's kind of like checking you MPG on your vehicle, a sudden drop can tell you something is wrong.

Eric

I read the entire thread a lot of good stuff in there, I remember you guys talking about the draft but can't seem to find it now, where did you guys settle on the best draft for the flue/chimney was it .04 or .06 thanks

 

[trx250r87]

I read the entire thread a lot of good stuff in there, I remember you guys talking about the draft but can't seem to find it now, where did you guys settle on the best draft for the flue/chimney was it .04 or .06 thanks

Might depend on the quality/dryness of your wood and how full the firebox is. My draft is usually way high due to the height of my flue. After the firebox is heated up I adjust down to .06.

Eric

 

[Rockstar1346]

Yes your 100% correct I have a Newmac WB100 that i am replacing its pushing 20 years old, she is a wood eater, pretty much wide open or nothing, on the cold nights you roast your self out for the first half in order to have a long enough fire to keep the house warm for morning lol. its a roller coaster. thats what I really like about the HC it will give an even heat with some longevity.

Its -7c here tonight i think that 19f since 6 pm I put wood in twice its now 12.30 am i'm going down now to put a bunch more in for the night , by morning the house will be cooled off a bit and i'll be lucky if there is enough coals to start it up again. and i have a pretty tight house.

So in NB it was -11 and I filled up With about 6 splits in log cabin at 8:30 to get a really good fire and coals going I then put 6 more on top of that at about 1pm and that was on a real nice bed of coals about 1/3 full firebox and that will get me to supper time or after. When I do it once more and get to midnight when I got to bed I’ll check to see how cold overnight and load accordingly but I always have coals in the morning. House is never freezing when I wake up lowest is maybe 19 degrees.

I'll let one of the HC owners confirm, but my understanding is that the first step of "fire going out" is that it will open the "under fire" air (grate) so the coals will burn down and the potential heat from them can be maximized, if no wood is added and the firebox temp gets too low, all the air is closed and at some point when the plenum temp is down to the minimum preset temp, the blower turns off (although I'm sure just like any wood furnace, the blower will continue to cycle on/off a few times as the furnace grows colder)

This is bang on what happens. Builds up heat from the coals and cycles the blower in short bursts.

ok so here is another question, say the thermostat is set at 70, fire in the furnace and everything is running normal, but I go out for awhile get held up or something and don't get back before the fire goes out. , what does the furnace do/ does it still try to make heat even though there is no fire, will it hurt anything etc. Thanks

Yeah basically it burns low and slow when the thermostat is satisfied. I have it set to 21 once it reaches that it will dampen down and burn slow as it needs until there’s no coals left. Eventually the light goes out cause there’s no heat to salvage just a few coals,it won’t hurt anything it knows what to do haha. If I got out anywhere I just load it like I’m leaving for the day.

 

[sleewok]

I just got my liner installed. Talk about a nightmare. About 9 hours of work to get that sucker done...sheesh. I shoved a 6" rigid down (z-flex from supply house) a 6x6.5 terracotta lined chimney. Got about 8 feet in and it stuck. Fortunately I was able to back it out. I rigged up a tile breaker and I was able to bust out a few sections that were causing problems. Lot's of banging, fishing out dropped stuff with magnets (lol), and I finally got it down 22'. If I did it again I would have busted out all the tile in the first place. There's zero room for insulation, but I am not concerned with that since there's no fire risk based on its location outside.

Anyways... The difference is significant. I got a fire going in half the time. The draft is really strong and I had to adjust my baro to compensate. Tonight will be in the upper 20s and the house is sitting at 62 since we haven't had heart the last couple days. I'll be curious to see how the liner impacts my burn times. Tonight will be a good stress test since I'm raising the bedrooms 10F.

Fyi I put in the liner because visible cracks with soot / moisture leaking were forming around the block near the middle of the chimney.

 

[brenndatomu]

I just got my liner installed. Talk about a nightmare. About 9 hours of work to get that sucker done...sheesh. I shoved a 6" rigid down (z-flex from supply house) a 6x6.5 terracotta lined chimney. Got about 8 feet in and it stuck. Fortunately I was able to back it out. I rigged up a tile breaker and I was able to bust out a few sections that were causing problems. Lot's of banging, fishing out dropped stuff with magnets (lol), and I finally got it down 22'. If I did it again I would have busted out all the tile in the first place. There's zero room for insulation, but I am not concerned with that since there's no fire risk based on its location outside.

Anyways... The difference is significant. I got a fire going in half the time. The draft is really strong and I had to adjust my baro to compensate. Tonight will be in the upper 20s and the house is sitting at 62 since we haven't had heart the last couple days. I'll be curious to see how the liner impacts my burn times. Tonight will be a good stress test since I'm raising the bedrooms 10F.

Fyi I put in the liner because visible cracks with soot / moisture leaking were forming around the block near the middle of the chimney.

View attachment 287230

Glad to hear that this fixed your draft up for you...but, after reading about your install fiasco I have a question or two...this area that you had to bust the flue out, about 8' down...looks like that puts you about at the roofline, maybe a bit lower?

 

[Highbeam]

I just got my liner installed. Talk about a nightmare. About 9 hours of work to get that sucker done...sheesh. I shoved a 6" rigid down (z-flex from supply house) a 6x6.5 terracotta lined chimney. Got about 8 feet in and it stuck. Fortunately I was able to back it out. I rigged up a tile breaker and I was able to bust out a few sections that were causing problems. Lot's of banging, fishing out dropped stuff with magnets (lol), and I finally got it down 22'. If I did it again I would have busted out all the tile in the first place. There's zero room for insulation, but I am not concerned with that since there's no fire risk based on its location outside.

Anyways... The difference is significant. I got a fire going in half the time. The draft is really strong and I had to adjust my baro to compensate. Tonight will be in the upper 20s and the house is sitting at 62 since we haven't had heart the last couple days. I'll be curious to see how the liner impacts my burn times. Tonight will be a good stress test since I'm raising the bedrooms 10F.

Fyi I put in the liner because visible cracks with soot / moisture leaking were forming around the block near the middle of the chimney.

View attachment 287230

Looks like solar panels and you obviously value efficiency and quality. Why didn't you just tear down that undersized, leaky, cracked thing and put in a full pipe system?

 

[sleewok]

Glad to hear that this fixed your draft up for you...but, after reading about your install fiasco I have a question or two...this area that you had to bust the flue out, about 8' down...looks like that puts you about at the roofline, maybe a bit lower?

Thanks! Yeah, that sounds about right. I think it is right a out where the stone transitions to block. The larger section I busted was probably 12 - 15 feet down. Only that small section passes through the roof and then down along the side of the house.

 

[sleewok]

Looks like solar panels and you obviously value efficiency and quality. Why didn't you just tear down that undersized, leaky, cracked thing and put in a full pipe system?

True! We are doing a lot of remodeling right now and don't have the extra $2-$3k to get it replaced completely. Hopefully I'll get 5 years out of it before it needs to be torn down. Not ideal.

 

[brenndatomu]

Thanks! Yeah, that sounds about right. I think it is right a out where the stone transitions to block. The larger section I busted was probably 12 - 15 feet down. Only that small section passes through the roof and then down along the side of the house.

Yeah...I was afraid of that...if you were willing to break out the clay you should have went ahead and done it all...then put the insulation wrap on the liner...and had even better draft, and a cleaner flue...the real problem now is there's no way to know what your CTC measurements are in there...if any. If you are sure that bare liner will do the job during a chimney fire, don't be...a 2000* chimney fire will turn that sheet metal red hot in about 1 second...and ASSUMING that there is a layer of block between 2000* and your wood structure...block is only about R1...and if the chimney has already had issues over the years, the wood next to it may be properly pyrolyzed already...so now it can spontaneously combust as low as 200*F (even a bit lower actually) How long will that "R1" block keep the 2000* on the other side at bay? Hopefully long enough...but that sure wouldn't make me sleep well on a cold winters night though.
The whole chimney is supposed to have a 1" gap between the chimney and the structure (on an external chimney, 2" on an internal) but they very often don't, so the only way to 100% meet CTC requirements is with the insulation wrap (which can be 2" CTC, just by itself then) The other issue is that many times the chimney may have wood mortared (improperly) right into its structure.
Keep in mind that with single wall pipe (what you have now) CTC is 18", 9" with a non combustible shield and a ventilated 1" air gap between it and the wood...and I know you don't have 9" clearance there anywhere...maybe not even 1".
Not trying to pee on your parade, just educate...

 

[sleewok]

Yeah...I was afraid of that...if you were willing to break out the clay you should have went ahead and done it all...then put the insulation wrap on the liner...and had even better draft, and a cleaner flue...the real problem now is there's no way to know what your CTC measurements are in there...if any. If you are sure that bare liner will do the job during a chimney fire, don't be...a 2000* chimney fire will turn that sheet metal red hot in about 1 second...and ASSUMING that there is a layer of block between 2000* and your wood structure...block is only about R1...and if the chimney has already had issues over the years, the wood next to it may be properly pyrolyzed already...so now it can spontaneously combust as low as 200*F (even a bit lower actually) How long will that "R1" block keep the 2000* on the other side at bay? Hopefully long enough...but that sure wouldn't make me sleep well on a cold winters night though.
The whole chimney is supposed to have a 1" gap between the chimney and the structure (on an external chimney, 2" on an internal) but they very often don't, so the only way to 100% meet CTC requirements is with the insulation wrap (which can be 2" CTC, just by itself then) The other issue is that many times the chimney may have wood mortared (improperly) right into its structure.
Keep in mind that with single wall pipe (what you have now) CTC is 18", 9" with a non combustible shield and a ventilated 1" air gap between it and the wood...and I know you don't have 9" clearance there anywhere...maybe not even 1".
Not trying to pee on your parade, just educate...

Dang. Well, this is really helpful information. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me on this. I went out and checked and there is a 1 - 2" gap between the block and the siding. It looks like the gap is there going up through the roof, but I know some of the sides are touching the soffit.

I think I found the information on clearances that you are referring to: https://up.codes/viewer/connecticut/irc-2012/chapter/10/chimneys-and-fireplaces#R1003.18

I couldn't find anything on the 18" / 9". Could you clarify that a bit?

Any suggestions since I have a 1" gap? Should I install a non-combustible shield on the siding? What about the soffit?

I know this is getting a bit off-topic of the HC, but perhaps will be helpful to others!

Thanks again!

 

[brenndatomu]

I went out and checked and there is a 1 - 2" gap between the block and the siding. It looks like the gap is there going up through the roof,

Well, that's good that you could actually verify that its there...I'm not sure what the proper way to handle the soffit would be...other than pull the liner, knock out rest of clay liner, do the insulation kit on the liner, reinstall...but I also know that has a pretty high suck factor too.
As far as the 18"/9" thing...I was talking about single wall stove pipe CTC...its 18" or with the proper shielding, 9" minimum.
Might be a good time to get a pro opinion here @bholler
Here is the post that started the discussion bholler... https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/new-furnace-day-drolet-heat-commander.183421/post-2552504

 

[SpaceBus]

Redoing the liner is probably the best and safest way to handle the clearance problems.

 

[bholler]

Busy working but I will look through it later

 

[bholler]

Dang. Well, this is really helpful information. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me on this. I went out and checked and there is a 1 - 2" gap between the block and the siding. It looks like the gap is there going up through the roof, but I know some of the sides are touching the soffit.

I think I found the information on clearances that you are referring to: https://up.codes/viewer/connecticut/irc-2012/chapter/10/chimneys-and-fireplaces#R1003.18

I couldn't find anything on the 18" / 9". Could you clarify that a bit?

Any suggestions since I have a 1" gap? Should I install a non-combustible shield on the siding? What about the soffit?

I know this is getting a bit off-topic of the HC, but perhaps will be helpful to others!

Thanks again!

You need a liner. Because you have the required clearances you don't really need insulation but I would still do it. Atleast with pour in.

 

[sleewok]

You need a liner. Because you have the required clearances you don't really need insulation but I would still do it. Atleast with pour in.

Awesome. Thanks for checking. I'll get some perlite and pour it in (unless there is a better option). I'll probably have to get something a little finer to get it to fill the small space and flow into the areas I busted out.

 

[bholler]

Awesome. Thanks for checking. I'll get some perlite and pour it in (unless there is a better option). I'll probably have to get something a little finer to get it to fill the small space and flow into the areas I busted out.

You want to use a chimney insulation mix that has a little cement in it. If you don't it will settle and pack in the bottom

 

[NSGUY]

Hey guy's another question, My furnace is at the local shipping company ready to be delivered, fast shipping , From the pics i seen its hard to see whats on the bottom of them, do they have feet or a runner on them, I'm hoping to be able to slide the furnace on some 2x8's or something. I have about 70-80 feet from where it will be dropped off to my basement door, I was hoping to slide it. how did you guys move yours? open to ideas lol

 

[brenndatomu]

Slide it over what kind of surface?

 

[hobbyheater]

Hey guy's another question, My furnace is at the local shipping company ready to be delivered, fast shipping , From the pics i seen its hard to see whats on the bottom of them, do they have feet or a runner on them, I'm hoping to be able to slide the furnace on some 2x8's or something. I have about 70-80 feet from where it will be dropped off to my basement door, I was hoping to slide it. how did you guys move yours? open to ideas lol

Rent a pallet jack!