New and some questions - <One year later...>

[cherryredcutie]

Hi Guys,

thanks for your replies! Gooserider pretty much described it, no lining, the stove pipe just ends and the chimney is made of bricks, clay, etc. I can't see daylight though when I look up the chimney, well at least I can't get my head far enough next to the stove to see any light, it's pitch black without a flashlight . I made some more pics so you can get a better picture . I don't know how wide the chimney is, it's narrower at the bottom where the stove pipe goes in (it's just a little bigger than the pipe itself) and then it goes wider, pretty much as the layout shows below. There is no damper or plate at the bottom of the chimney. I think the chimney is over 5m high, we got a 2 storey house and the chimney comes out at the highest point of the house. My boyfriend has next week off work so we'll pop into the stove shop and have a chat with the people there. The previous owner of out house came around the other day and he said he'll show us the place where he got his firewood from, pretty nice of him. We still got some in the shed we have to split, I think we need to get a chainsaw at some point.

Take care,
Anne

EDIT: I have uploaded a new sketch of my chimney and added the stove with pipe

 

[Gooserider]

[quote author="cherryredcutie" date="1194284791"]Hi Guys,

thanks for your replies! Gooserider pretty much described it, no lining, the stove pipe just ends and the chimney is made of bricks, clay, etc. I can't see daylight though when I look up the chimney, well at least I can't get my head far enough next to the stove to see any light, it's pitch black without a flashlight . I made some more pics so you can get a better picture . I don't know how wide the chimney is, it's narrower at the bottom where the stove pipe goes in (it's just a little bigger than the pipe itself) and then it goes wider, pretty much as the layout shows below. There is no damper or plate at the bottom of the chimney. I think the chimney is over 5m high, we got a 2 storey house and the chimney comes out at the highest point of the house. My boyfriend has next week off work so we'll pop into the stove shop and have a chat with the people there. The previous owner of out house came around the other day and he said he'll show us the place where he got his firewood from, pretty nice of him. We still got some in the shed we have to split, I think we need to get a chainsaw at some point.

Take care,
Anne

My mistake on seeing daylight - I misinterpreted what you said when you talked about looking up the chimney. However I would say the photos confirm what I was saying earlier, that install would almost certainly be considered grossly illegal under current US codes for safety reasons. It obviously hasn't hurt you yet, but it is one that would make me nervous. However the chimney doesn't appear to be as dirty as it could be, so things could be worse.

It looks like your best solution would be to install a full length stainless liner after cleaning the chimney, as we were suspecting earlier. The chimney looks like it might not be very straight, so you will probably need to use flexible liner.

I'm a bit confused by the sketch picture - is that yours or did you snag it out of the manual? (Great job if it's yours BTW!) It seems to show an outside air kit hooked to the back of the stove, and no pipe at all going up the chimney?

Good deal on finding out where the PO got his wood from, as I understand it firewood is much harder to come by in the UK than it is in the US. Where abouts in the UK are you? My GF was born in England (her parents met @ Oxford) and she still has some assorted relatives over there, some on the Cornish coast. We went over there a few years back but a couple of weeks isn't long to see very much.

Gooserider

 

[cherryredcutie]

It looks like your best solution would be to install a full length stainless liner after cleaning the chimney, as we were suspecting earlier. The chimney looks like it might not be very straight, so you will probably need to use flexible liner.

I'm a bit confused by the sketch picture - is that yours or did you snag it out of the manual? (Great job if it's yours BTW!) It seems to show an outside air kit hooked to the back of the stove, and no pipe at all going up the chimney?

Good deal on finding out where the PO got his wood from, as I understand it firewood is much harder to come by in the UK than it is in the US. Where abouts in the UK are you? My GF was born in England (her parents met @ Oxford) and she still has some assorted relatives over there, some on the Cornish coast. We went over there a few years back but a couple of weeks isn't long to see very much.

Gooserider

Hiya,

yeah we definately have to use a flexi liner, it's got the same bent that you see in the sketch. The sketch pic is just a random one from the net, it looks like our chimney is built like that with the stove sitting right under the chimney, we got no air kit hooked up and the pipe goes up the chimney . Sorry for the confusion .

I live near Birmingham, Black Country Area, if that means anything to you? Cornwall is very nice indeed, we went for a holiday there a year back and it feels like you're in another country. I'd love to visit the US sometime, never been there before!

Thanks again for pointing out the safetly issues, at least I know what I have to look out for now!

Take care,
Anne

 

[Gooserider]

That is a scary looking chimny! Liner is definitely a must for burning wood but maybe not for coal. block plate needed. seems youre losing heat from the draft as it stands. I'd plug the chimney for now until you get your stove set up. piece of cardboard jammed int chimneyhole should do the trick.
CO detector is essential especially for coal.

Drone - you aren't just a troll, you are a DANGEROUS troll... it is NEVER a good idea to jam combustibles into a chimney that is used!

Gooserider

 

[cherryredcutie]

Hi Guys,

does anyone know where I can get a piece of sheet metal from to built a block off plate?

Thanks,
Anne

 

[jqgs214]

Home depot

 

[cherryredcutie]

Thanks, I just had a look on ebay and found some .

 

[budman]

That is a scary looking chimny! Liner is definitely a must for burning wood but maybe not for coal. block plate needed. seems youre losing heat from the draft as it stands. I'd plug the chimney for now until you get your stove set up. piece of cardboard jammed int chimneyhole should do the trick.
CO detector is essential especially for coal.

Drone - you aren't just a troll, you are a DANGEROUS troll... it is NEVER a good idea to jam combustibles into a chimney that is used!

Gooserider

Goose who is this guy (cardboard) :ahhh:

 

[Hogwildz]

That is a scary looking chimny! Liner is definitely a must for burning wood but maybe not for coal. block plate needed. seems youre losing heat from the draft as it stands. I'd plug the chimney for now until you get your stove set up. piece of cardboard jammed int chimneyhole should do the trick.
CO detector is essential especially for coal.

Drone - you aren't just a troll, you are a DANGEROUS troll... it is NEVER a good idea to jam combustibles into a chimney that is used!

Gooserider

Goose who is this guy (cardboard) :ahhh:

HAHAHAHA CARDBOARD, Dylan just blew his own cover
He is definitely the only moron that suggest cardboard.
Lil feller slipped and blew his cover. Anne, certain members here you have to take with a grain of salt. And if their advice seems out of reality, it is.
Go with the majority advice and you'll be fine. When you here a moronic suggestion, it is just that.
To my buddy Dylan................ Sit on it......... HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY LMFAO.

 

[Gooserider]

If E-bay is to expensive by the time you add in shipping and such, Home Depot (if you have them in the UK) or any local hardware store should have it. If not any place that does sheet metal work, particularly ducts and things along that line.

See the article in the Hearth Wiki on making a blockoff plate if you haven't already, it will fill in some of the details for you.

Gooserider

 

[cherryredcutie]

Hi guys,

I have been doing some work around the house, we got some skirting boards now (yes there weren't any in the living room) and I also filled the gaps in the wall so we don't have such a bad draft anymore and it is noticeable warmer in the room now. I can't believe all the places the air came in!

We went to the stove shop last week and ordered a baffle plate, gonna be around £30. It was quite funny coz they guy first sold us the wrong baffle plate for the Chelsea, then we took some pics and measurements and he was totally surprised because our stove as a baffle plate of a different type of Villager stove (the Puffin), it's only like 17cm x 15cm and he didn't know about it lol. It should arrive sometime this week. We also got some firewood from my bf's brother for free which was nice.

I had a look on ebay, an aluminium sheet 100cm x 50cm costs £15 including postage so that is a fair price I think. I have read that article about making the block off plate, doesn't sound too difficult. So I need the sheet, some fire cement, metal scissors and maybe some mineral wool, oh and a CO detector .

Take care,
Anne

 

[Mike Wilson]

Aluminum, or as you would say, aluminium, is combustible. Not at any temperatures that your stove operates at, however it does burn... hell, it melts at about 1200 degrees Fahrenheit. I would use steel.

-- Mike

 

[begreen]

I think residential use of sheet metal (steel) in Europe is much less prevalent than in the US. It may be harder to find because forced air systems are not all that common there except in commercial installations.

Anne, I would make a template for the block off plate out of a large piece of cardboard. Follow the instructions in the wiki, including the edge flanges that bind it in place and the hole for the pipe. Test it in place to ensure a nice fit. Take the finished template to a small commercial sheet metal shop (a tin knocker) that makes ductwork for commercial buildings. At first they may not want to be bothered with a small job, but if you smile nicely and are patient, I think they'll make it up for you.

And congratulations on the air leak finding. Keep up the good work!

 

[cherryredcutie]

We finally ordered our baffle plate The stockist in our area was meant to order one but he never did so I contacted Villagers directly and they said ours was a very old Chelsea stove and we needed a special flat top model baffle which is not a standard spare so they have made one for us in the factory and are sending it out. My bf spoke to them and it was quite funny coz someone else in the UK was looking for the same baffle plate at the same time we did.

Okay, I'll go for a stainless steel block off plate then, I found someone else on ebay who cuts them to the correct size and sends them out for a reasonable price, I am quite confident that I can fit it. It's very windy today and I can hear it coming down the chimney and there is still quite a draft on the floor so hopefully when the block off plate is installed it will be much better.

Any idea on how I put a trap door into the block of plate for cleaning the chimney or it is not really necessary?

Take care,
Anne

 

[Gooserider]

If you put in a full liner, as we suggested earlier, then there is no need for access to the rest of the chimney - you clean it once, then put in the liner and blockoff plate. Since the smoke goes up the liner, then you never have to clean or get access to the old part of the chimney again.

If you don't put in the liner, then essentially your entire connection setup has to be removed every time you clean, there really isn't a way to do it through just a trap door.

Gooserider

 

[cherryredcutie]

New and some questions - One year later…

Hi guys,

hello from the UK again . Just wanted to update my little Stove blog .

We didn't do any work on the woodstove and chimney anymore last year due to lack of money but as we want to use the stove this winter again we called the chimney sweep and he came round and had a look at our installation yesterday.

He wasn't very happy about what the former owner has done, especially not happy that there was no block off plate. He couldn't sweep the chimney with the wood stove and pipe still in it so he'll come back tomorrow to sweep the chimney. He said he is not surprised that we don't get a lot of heat into the room with the plate missing.

We're gonna built the block off plate ourselves now, we already got the sheet metal, snippers, cement & silicone so we can make it right after the chimney is swept. We're gonna put the block off plate at the same hight as the lintel, which is quite low but still out of sight so hopefully we'll get a lot more heat into the room instead of it going up the chimney.

The sweep said we would also need a soot door installed above the flue pipe into the wall, otherwise we'll have to take the whole installation out every time we need the chimney swept. And the chimney should draft much better with a plate installed.

I'm excited about installing everything and to see how much more heat output we can get.

Will keep you updated .

 

[Gooserider]

Thanks for the update, sounds like your sweep is basically saying the same things we said a year ago... I don't blame him for being upset with the prev. owner, as it sounded like you had a dangerous setup... Doing the blockoff plate will help, and the "soot door" sounds like it would do similarly to the full liner we suggested, though I still think the liner would be a better approach.

Gooserider

 

[bokehman]

There's an open fireplace and a stove with a couple of feet of flue pipe (not connected to anything) exhausting into it. And when you look up around the stove you can see the sky. Can someone explain how this set-up ever worked?

 

[cherryredcutie]

Thanks for the update, sounds like your sweep is basically saying the same things we said a year ago... I don't blame him for being upset with the prev. owner, as it sounded like you had a dangerous setup... Doing the blockoff plate will help, and the "soot door" sounds like it would do similarly to the full liner we suggested, though I still think the liner would be a better approach.

Gooserider

Hi Gooserider,

nice to hear from you again . Yeah, you're right, he said basically the same thing you said a year ago. He also explained to me the danger of the CO gases dropping down the chimney when the air cools and going back into the room when there is no block off plate that is properly sealed.

The sweep came round today and there was a lot of soot coming down the chimney. The guy who lived here before said to us that he had had the chimney swept, but the guys today said it hasn't been swept in a long time so... Our sweeper is 73 years old, has been in the business for 40 years and he is really nice and knows his stuff. Only lives like 500m from where we live. He also gave us some tips on how to do the block off plate so we're good to go.

I agree a liner would be the best option instead of having the soot door but we're not able to afford it at the moment so we'll have to leave it til next year.

I'll take some pics and post them when we're doing the plate.

Speak soon,
Anne

 

[bokehman]

Cherryredcutie, have you got a fireplace on the upper floor? Those British houses of that era normally share the chimney between the fireplaces on both levels. Even if you do manage to seal around the stovepipe on the ground floor if the flue doesn't draft properly it will put fumes out on the first floor. I'm fortunate enough to have survived chronic carbon monoxide poisoning as a child from a similar set-up, you might not be so lucky.

 

[cherryredcutie]

Cherryredcutie, have you got a fireplace on the upper floor?

Hi Bokehman,

no there's no fireplace on the first floor but now you say it there is some kind of vent in the wall where the chimney goes up on the first floor. It's taped over with wallpaper but I will definately check if it's sealed off properly, dunno if it goes through all the way to the chimney. Thanks for the warning, better safe than sorry!

Anne

 

[bokehman]

Why not just buy some stainless steel liner? It only costs about 20 quid a meter (galvanized is even cheaper). My guess is you need about 7 meters from the stove to the roof. With mine I pushed it up from the bottom 1 metre section at a time then sealed it at the top afterwards. Pretty easy really.

 

[cherryredcutie]

Job Done!

We finally installed the plate this weekend and we are very pleased with the result! I can't believe what a difference it makes to the chimney draft, we usually had quite a bit of smoke spillage when reloading the stove but that is all gone and on Saturday we go the room up to 24 degrees lol. We'll probably install a ss liner at some point as well as nicer hearth, mantelpiece etc. but it will do for now, main point for us was to save some money on the gas bill for central heating.

Here are some pics, enjoy .

The Plate:

Bending the Edges:

Sealing the Gaps:

Sealing the Pipe:

Come on, put the fire on already!

Nice and hot:

Thanks again for all the support and advice, this website and forum are great .

Anne

 

[Gooserider]

Looks like a really good job, congratulations. (I'll admit I had to do a quick double take when you were bragging about getting up to 24, but I'm not used to thinking in *C)

I agree with Bokehman's suggestion of getting the liner eventually, but should point out that galvanized is NOT OK for stove chimneys, at least in the USA, it isn't able to take the heat, and for an extra hazard the zinc coating can burn off with lots of toxic fumes... Plain black steel is OK where it can be inspected regularly for rust and burnout, and replaced as needed, but is not OK for concealed applications like inside a chimney. You need to use stainless steel, and make sure that it's the right alloy that is rated as approved for use with a woodburning appliance. In the USA and Canada, we look for stuff made from 316Ti stainless, but I don't know if you use the same alloy designations in the UK.

Gooserider

 

[bokehman]

I agree with Bokehman's suggestion of getting the liner eventually, but should point out that galvanized is NOT OK for stove chimneys, at least in the USA, it isn't able to take the heat, and for an extra hazard the zinc coating can burn off with lots of toxic fumes...

I'm not certain what it is. In Spanish it's called "chapa" but it looks like galvanized to me. It's got a mottled dull grey appearance and is sold as a cheap alternative to stainless for use as stove pipe.